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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Apr 2019 : 20:47:26
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WARNING: Throwing out a lot of ideas in the below. It makes sense to me, but I may be leaving out portions of what's coming to mind. Still, I wanted to get this theory out there and started for discussions sake.
Undrek-Thoz, the segmented city, populated by descendants of the ilythiiri who went to inhabit Narathmault ("The Dark Pit", future Dun-Tharos, homebrew past name Bheuristahl). Said descendants fled Narathmault after their transformation into drow shatter their bindings over a host of fiends. They are led by Undrek of Clan Sethomiir.
The Athora - a recently revealed artifact in George and Ed's article "Tyrants in Scarlet". Discovered by the Sarrukh Missashak in another plane, this mass of strange black metal was brought back to the sarrukh stronghold of Assikhath (present day Thaymount) and became of interest to Mystra (note, Mystra, not Mystryl) as an anchor for the weave (so it presumably became an anchor after Netheril's fall).
Demoncysts, Eltab, and the formation of Thay - sections of the 248th layer of the Abyss are tied to scattered portions of the unapproachable east and bloodstone lands. These are known as demoncysts and were created by the wizards of Narfell who cast a great binding (some say at the behest of Orcus, prince of undead, others say other demons such as Fraz'Urb-luu, a lord of lies) on Eltab in the Citadel of Conjurers (known then as Dun-Orthass)
So ideas
Have portions of the Athora been split off in the past? We would be talking about over a period of 30 thousand years or so. For instance, was a portion of the Athora in "the Dark Pit" known as Narathmault/Dun-Tharos (and my homebrew prior to that of Bheuristahl, city of hags)?
Were further portions of the Athora later split off... for instance, was some portion split off by the Narfellians OR the Ilythiiri and carried to build Dun-Orthass (now, the Citadel of Conjurers).
Were some portions of the Athora carried as far away as the Ilythiiri city of Athamault ("The Iron Pit", caverns and tunnels beneath the lake of steam) by individuals PRIOR TO the Ilythiiri and they discovered this material in Athamault and were drawn to Narathmault because it had a larger quantity? Is that why the city is known as "the Iron Pit"
Is the city of Undrek-Thoz (the drow segmented city) powered by portions of the Athora, broken off from the pieces in Narathmault, which were originally broken off from the pieces in Assikhath (present day Thaymount). Maybe Narathmault/Dun-Tharos/Bheuristahl never had a whole piece in the first place and fragments were scattered throughout it. Is the "portal" system that connects their cities (and oddly doesn't allow the transfer of metal) connected to portions of the Athora?
Was the dark elven city loyal to the hags of Kiaransalee beneath the galenas a center point as well for a portion of the Athora? The city was known as V'elddrinnsshar (or "the Vault of Gnashing Teeth"). The city was KNOWN to hate followers of Orcus, and its canon that "recently" Kiaransalee had erased Orcus with a powerful spell to erase him from memory. Did she do this through High Magic empowered by a portion of the Athora? Was Kiaransalee HERSELF then later erased via similar means using the SAME power source (need to do more research on the novel events surrounding this)? BTW, if this is the case, what kind of twisted events have Kiaransalee and Bahamut working together, since Bahamut sends Gareth Dragonsbane and company to kill Tiamat and put the wand of orcus in its blood.
Did the Athora come to the attention of Mystra when the Narfellians in -160 DR cast the Adamantine Seal in Dun-Orthass and suddenly awoke a connection that created demoncysts throughout the Unapproachable East and Bloodstone Lands?
If the above is true, what happened in the cities of drow beneath the surface in -160 DR when demoncysts formed? We know that its not until almost 300 years later (114 DR) that the city of Undrek-Thoz is formed via portals.
If the above is also true then the demoncyst that feeds water from the Abyss tainted River of blood into the river Eltar, the river into Eltabbar, was or is still a portion of the Athora. This also once held Eltab captive until the release by the red wizards, when he was placed into it by an incarnation of Anhur wielding the sword Hadryllis.
Does the sword Hadryllis hold a portion of the Athora? Maybe a gem in its hilt?
Eltab at one point was also imprisoned beneath the Sharawood by the witches of Rashemen and the Everlasting Wyrm placed above to guard the place. Is there a portion of the Athora here and is it a portion of the dracolich's phylactery? Is this WHY Myrkul's warriors are so intent to destroy the everlasting wyrm (but only known to Myrkul who commanded them)?
Was the Orcgate created using a portion of the Athora? Does the Athora in particular have a "link" to planar and other transportive magics. Might this be WHY the demoncysts linking Toril and the 248th layer of the Abyss happened when Eltab was bound by the Narfellians? Was the site where Eltab was bound by the incarnation of Anhur ALSO the site of the Orcgate?
Are the telthors in Rashemen somehow tied to portions of the Athora being there?
Do the twin cities of Shandaular (one in Ashanath, one in the council hills area of the Shaar) have portions of the Athora in them, and this was the source of the great gate that connected the two sides of the one great city. Did the first Nentyarch of Tharos come to destroy Shandaular because he was seeking this portion of the Athora? Did Arkaiius do SOMETHING to it and break the portal (and possibly decimate the armies of Narfell) to help his people flee the invading forces? Was this similar to the explosion that happened when the first Zulkirs were messing with the piece beneath Thaymount.
Did the city of Peleveran (which held the Dark Pit of Maleficence) hold a portion of the Athora? We know that Gargauth has some strange ability to "absorb power of any baatezu that he kills on Toril and that exists fully on Toril". This is how he's become a demipower. Does this have something to do with the Athora beneath Peleveran? Is the Shield of the Hidden Lords constructed with some portion of the black metal known as the Athora?
Did Thayd become the equivalent of a "Suel Lich" by trying to use a portion of the Athora? I had previously posited that he'd used a Vestige Phylactery in a desperate measure to create a phylactery for himself using an untested magical ritual. Did he basically try to link himself to a portion of the Athora as a phylactery? Rather than turning him into a vestige, did it turn him into this ghostly being that has to possess other individuals and burn them out?
Did Azuth's staff hold a portion of the Athora? Did this have anything to do with his ascension to godhood? What about Savras and his own ascension?
Was a portion of the Athora brought long ago by the batrachi to the lands known as Lopango, the land of fire. Was the ascension of Bazim-Gorag a result of interaction with the Athora OR A SIMILAR MATERIAL WHICH THE GODS USED TO ENTRAP PRIMORDIALS?
Was the release of the Primordials by the Batrachi that caused the Sundering a result of them interacting with this kind of power source and not so much a summoning.... in other words, were they trying to tap power and accidentally broke the prison.
Is Felliron, the material in Vaasa (awful close to Dun-Tharos) and believed to be a portion of the "body" of Telos (a primordial) and mined by the warlock knights of Vaasa a similar type of material.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 27 Apr 2019 21:23:29
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2019 : 21:17:52
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In the novels surrounding the Thayan rebellion, there's a ghost like being known as Mirror.... is he a Telthor or something like a Mythal Ghost or Weave Ghost and tied somehow to a portion of the Athora in the Sunrise Mountains in the land where Fastrin the Delver lived?
Did Fastrin the Delver mess with the Athora? The ritual of Unmaking that he "uncovered" in the work that became known as "the Tome of Fastrin the Delver" but which wasn't penned by him... was it based on Sarrukh studies of the Athora?
When Hoar the Doombringer gathered something from beneath Thay during the time of troubles to defeat Ramman... was it some portions of the Athora?
Also, we have at least two dragons in ascension to divine status in the Old Empires. One was Tchazzar. The other was the millennium dragon (Maldraedior). Did some dragons find some way to ascend using some kind of power source in the area (whether the Athora or something similar)? Was Assuran of the Three Thunders ascension to godhood the ascension of a dragon with breath weapons of Thunder and Lightning? Might we find that there is some kind of secret history to the Untheric Pantheon that involves dragons? After all, we have Tiamat... and Bahamut had some kind of ties to Marduk. There's other ties as well. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 27 Apr 2019 21:42:08 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2019 : 22:13:12
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Oh, and harkening back to the idea of the Athora itself.... where did the Sarrukh find this strange metal? Is it a portion of the dead body of a primordial much like Telos in Vaasa? Did they in essence get ahold of a portion of a powerful being in the aftermath of the godwar? Were they splitting it up much like the warlock knights?
Since this was possibly before the splitting of Abeir and Toril, did portions of the Athora go to Abeir? If this is the case, and IF Szass Tam's "ritual of unmaking" involved tapping into the energies of the Athora (but he was tricked by Leira as to the true outcome), was there some "echo" of his ritual also felt on Abeir? Is this what kicks off the Sundering?
Is this strange metal used in powerful artifacts like maybe the wand of orcus? Is this WHY orcus is so interested in the bloodstone lands? For that matter, is there some untapped use of bloodstone from the area? Is there any kind of linkage to bloodstone and ironfell?
Finally, was the ability of Velsharoon to ascend to godhood somehow related to his interaction with the athora long before? Was Zhengyi's special link to Orcus of a similar nature, and was he seeking a similar transformation of some kind, but seeking it via a demon lord instead of a god? Since Malyk was a god of wild and destructive magic, was he also exposed as a mortal to some kind of similar effect prior to his own ascension by Talos?
Finally, is there a linkage of any of this to the Pandemonium Stone? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 27 Apr 2019 22:23:44 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2019 : 04:15:28
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I guess my question is simple - what makes you think all those things separated by tons of distance and time are all related at all? I don't see one, so all the ideas seem like reaching at least.
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2019 : 00:49:27
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Yeah, sometimes I need to slow down and put the puzzle pieces together better, but sometimes I just need to throw the ideas out and see what sticks.
On the splitting off, we have at least two examples of something Athora like within Thay, (beneath both Amruthar and Thaymount), which makes me think that possibly long ago it was portioned off. That this strange black metal was found on another plane also somewhat fits with some of the concepts being presented in 4e with the abyss and also involving Orcus and the primordial Timesus "the black star".
From Prince of Undeath
But all of these efforts pale before Orcus's ultimate aspiration. In order to achieve it. the Prince of Undeath acquired an ancient primordial, a creature called Timesus the Black Star. Few primordials were feared as much by the original gods as Timesus.
<snip>
The adventurers know that Timesus the primordial has been freed from its eternal prison, broken into chunks of black rock, and transported to the Forge of Four Worlds. There Orcus plans to restore the primordial to its original power and glory-while also making it subservient to the Demon Prince of Undeath.
The idea of Szass Tam using the Athora to power his ritual, it makes sense to me that the reason he chose Thay as a "suitable" land is because of this energy device (which maybe had had to be reawakened). Also, since Fastrin the Delver was very nearby (the Sunrise Mountains), it makes sense that what he'd researched may have been intent around the same resources.
On the Hoar and the ToT and going to get stuff in Thay, its after the ToT that the power of the Athora goes quiescent, so that's what makes me think he did something to it in his bid to defeat Ramman (I'm not thinking taking it, I'm thinking temporarily draining a lot of its power and it has to refill with time, like a battery recharging).
On the idea of linking the energies of the demoncysts and that of the Athora, that's more one of "why'd all these demoncysts appear spread all over" and if they somehow linked to fragments of the Athora it makes sense.
On the link to Undrek-Thoz is a little more tenuous, but well, many of the cities of Undrek'Thoz are right near similar artifacts OR demoncysts (Brundag is under Amruthar, Mezrylornyl is right by Eltabbar, Nanitaran is near Delhumide, Fyvrek’Zek is near Thaymount's main areas). Also, the area is specifically known for portals (Shandaular, Mucklestones, Orcgate, the portals of this city, plus in theory the demoncysts), and thus if this metal has a tendency towards portals it might make sense.
On the idea that Hadryllis might be made of the metal of the Athora, this one is purely a thing of "why can this particular sword destroy the seal in the Dun-Orthass?". We don't know its origins. We do know its viewed as being similar to cold iron (and thus likely a blackish metal). We also know this weapon is believed to have come from the gods, which might indicate their notice of the creation of the seal in Dun-Orthass and then responding by creating this weapon from a material that can affect it (possibly working through the vremyonni… via Mystra... maybe the Hidden One if that isn't the same being).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Undrek-Thoz, The Athora, & Narfell
