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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
746 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Mar 2019 : 16:36:23
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One of our campaign side story lines we are currently playing through is the 'hidden' and forgotten gnome settlements that I feel must exist both in the Silver Marches and the Sword Coast North.
I placed one such large settlement inside the Evermoors: Mystholm. It was permanently hidden by swirling fog.
We spent some time there before heading for a bandit kings tomb where a gnomish girl had gotten lost (Caragthax the Reaver).
Part of this interaction with the gnomes was a request from their elders for us to pass messages, documents and lineage related books to their distant kin near Secomber.
However, I do not recall any such settlements actually being documented either near Daggerford or Secomber.
Is there any good sources documenting known gnome settlements?
Any information would be great.
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2019 : 17:03:00
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Under Illefarn Anew indicates where there are some hidden gnome settlements. Look in the annotated version and it'll tell you where the refs are from.
Most are probably descendants of the lost city of Dolblunde.
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2019 : 17:24:45
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Look at "The New Adventures of Volo" on Dragon 269 for some (although not in the North).
Among the ones it lists are Anga Vled (on the north bank of the River Chiontar, a day's ride west of Elturel) and Beldenshyn (on the south bank of the Winding Water, west of Trollclaw Ford) in the Sword Coast / Western Heartlands region. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2019 : 21:37:22
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| Probably not much, gnomes tend to live mixed with humans (per Melve’s Plan). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2019 : 11:43:10
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| IIRC, there is a hidden gnome & hin community under Waterdeep. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
746 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2019 : 14:55:56
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quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Under Illefarn Anew indicates where there are some hidden gnome settlements. Look in the annotated version and it'll tell you where the refs are from.
Most are probably descendants of the lost city of Dolblunde.
--Eric
OK thanks. I'm still working through your wondrous tome. So far I have seen mention of only Hardstone.
I love the maps, and I will need to make them jive with the (deficient) 3e maps I've been using.
Markusty's version is much much better. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2019 : 16:28:32
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In 5th Edition…. one of the largest is in the Trielta Hills area, in Western Heartlands. So large that the gnomes have a fortified town there: Hardbuckler. From SCAG (Sword Coast Adventurers Guide).
Outside of Hardbuckler city, the gnomes also live in scattered hamlets in the rolling Trielta Hills, where they share pastoral residence with the Halflings. The Halflings herd sheep. The gnomes raise goats.
Sheep are to goats, as Halflings are to Gnomes. LOL
In my 5th Edition Realms…. I inserted another small gnome town underneath the Trielta Hills. Tanterin is smaller than Hardbuckler, but because Tanterin is mostly subterranean, it's also considered a clandestine refuge that can accommodate sacred temples to Garl Glittergold (or the gnomish pantheon).
Hardbuckler is mostly above-ground (but yes it has a subterranean part also), and is thus known to Human visitors, Dwarves, non-gnomish adventurers, etc. In my campaign, Tanterin is only known to the gnomes, and some of the oldest clans have underground "estates" in Tanterin for centuries.
In my campaign, it is rumored that Tanterin is one of the few important gnome settlements that host a Teleportation Circle…. connected to the network of Harper Teleportation Circles. Adventurers will hardly ever find it. It is well hidden behind an astounding array of mazes and illusions crafted by the most talented gnomish illusionists.
I may publish Tanterin as a freebie material to the DM's Guild someday.
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Edited by - moonbeast on 11 Mar 2019 16:57:52 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2019 : 17:51:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Under Illefarn Anew indicates where there are some hidden gnome settlements. Look in the annotated version and it'll tell you where the refs are from.
Most are probably descendants of the lost city of Dolblunde.
--Eric
OK thanks. I'm still working through your wondrous tome. So far I have seen mention of only Hardstone.
I love the maps, and I will need to make them jive with the (deficient) 3e maps I've been using.
Markusty's version is much much better.
Knowing Markustay, he already has "improved" the map...at least two or three times. lol |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Mar 2019 : 17:54:01
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
In 5th Edition…. one of the largest is in the Trielta Hills area, in Western Heartlands. So large that the gnomes have a fortified town there: Hardbuckler. From SCAG (Sword Coast Adventurers Guide).
Outside of Hardbuckler city, the gnomes also live in scattered hamlets in the rolling Trielta Hills, where they share pastoral residence with the Halflings. The Halflings herd sheep. The gnomes raise goats.
Sheep are to goats, as Halflings are to Gnomes. LOL
In my 5th Edition Realms…. I inserted another small gnome town underneath the Trielta Hills. Tanterin is smaller than Hardbuckler, but because Tanterin is mostly subterranean, it's also considered a clandestine refuge that can accommodate sacred temples to Garl Glittergold (or the gnomish pantheon).
Hardbuckler is mostly above-ground (but yes it has a subterranean part also), and is thus known to Human visitors, Dwarves, non-gnomish adventurers, etc. In my campaign, Tanterin is only known to the gnomes, and some of the oldest clans have underground "estates" in Tanterin for centuries.
In my campaign, it is rumored that Tanterin is one of the few important gnome settlements that host a Teleportation Circle…. connected to the network of Harper Teleportation Circles. Adventurers will hardly ever find it. It is well hidden behind an astounding array of mazes and illusions crafted by the most talented gnomish illusionists.
I may publish Tanterin as a freebie material to the DM's Guild someday.
Hardbuckler was used by an adventuring party I ran for some time...the gnomes have a solid footing there. I really like your idea of Tanterin though...can't wait to see/hear more! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2019 : 09:43:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
quote:
Originally posted by ericlboyd
Under Illefarn Anew indicates where there are some hidden gnome settlements. Look in the annotated version and it'll tell you where the refs are from.
Most are probably descendants of the lost city of Dolblunde.
--Eric
OK thanks. I'm still working through your wondrous tome. So far I have seen mention of only Hardstone.
I love the maps, and I will need to make them jive with the (deficient) 3e maps I've been using.
Markusty's version is much much better.
Knowing Markustay, he already has "improved" the map...at least two or three times. lol
My entire life is a 'Work in progress' LOL
I need to get back to this, as promised. I was ill the past few days (nothings serious, more like a chronic 'malaise'). I was going to mention Angla Vled and Beldenshyn, but others have already done so. bear in mind, the settlements we see on maps aren't even 10% of the ones actually present (as well as small lakes, rivers, trails, etc, etc), especially in the case of such secretive folk (who enjoy their privacy) as demihumans.
This may have something to do with the fact that when humans discover ANY non-human settlement, things tend to start going wrong for them. This even includes monster settlements/abodes (or did you think you were doing the right thing when you kicked-in the humanoid's door, murdered it and its family, and took all its stuff?) Never ever believe for a moment your character ISN'T a 'murder hobo'. LOL |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Mar 2019 09:44:16 |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
746 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2019 : 18:53:54
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
In 5th Edition...
Thank you, I really like your take but let me just stop your right there. No offense intended. |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
746 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2019 : 18:58:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
IIRC, there is a hidden gnome & hin community under Waterdeep.
This is also under Silverymoon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2019 : 23:36:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
In 5th Edition...
Thank you, I really like your take but let me just stop your right there. No offense intended.
Let me stop you right there. There's no reason to assume that an out of the way settlement first mentioned in 5E didn't exist before that era. There remain many unexplored corners of the Realms, and when the light is first shed on one of those particular corners shouldn't be a factor in its usability.
And in fact, Hardbuckler was NOT first mentioned in 5E. Hardbuckler's origin comes from Ed's pen, in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast. So this is canon, 2E Edlore you're dismissing, just because someone referenced 5E.
I get not liking particular editions, and all that -- I'm no great fan of anything after 3E, myself, and even a lot of 3E stuff is questionable. But I'm also no fan of dismissing something out of hand just because it came from a particular edition. Part of making the Realms your own is choosing what to include, and I'm not going to dismiss something potentially worthwhile just because of a number.
There is way too much arbitrary dismissal of lore, in our halls. I really wish people could learn to judge something based on its merits, instead of its source.
A lot of what happened to the setting was done in effort to cater to those who arbitrarily dismissed the Realms because it wasn't Greyhawk -- are we going to be the same as those folks? Are we not better than that?
Yes, I reject a lot of 4E lore -- but I've also read all of it, and my issue with it isn't the edition, it's the conflict with prior editions and/or the sheer illogic of it.
Anyway... Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast mentions storage caverns under Hardbuckler and implies at least a few gnomes live in those caverns. So if there are canon caverns in the area, it's not unreasonable to assume there could be an underground settlement hidden nearby.
Aside from the name of the underground community, I like moonbeast's idea, and if I ever run a Realms campaign, a renamed Tanterin will be a part of it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
746 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2019 : 23:59:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
In 5th Edition...
Thank you, I really like your take but let me just stop your right there. No offense intended.
Let me stop you right there. There's no reason to assume that an out of the way settlement first mentioned in 5E didn't exist before that era. There remain many unexplored corners of the Realms, and when the light is first shed on one of those particular corners shouldn't be a factor in its usability.
And in fact, Hardbuckler was NOT first mentioned in 5E. Hardbuckler's origin comes from Ed's pen, in Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast. So this is canon, 2E Edlore you're dismissing, just because someone referenced 5E.
I get not liking particular editions, and all that -- I'm no great fan of anything after 3E, myself, and even a lot of 3E stuff is questionable. But I'm also no fan of dismissing something out of hand just because it came from a particular edition. Part of making the Realms your own is choosing what to include, and I'm not going to dismiss something potentially worthwhile just because of a number.
There is way too much arbitrary dismissal of lore, in our halls. I really wish people could learn to judge something based on its merits, instead of its source.
A lot of what happened to the setting was done in effort to cater to those who arbitrarily dismissed the Realms because it wasn't Greyhawk -- are we going to be the same as those folks? Are we not better than that?
Yes, I reject a lot of 4E lore -- but I've also read all of it, and my issue with it isn't the edition, it's the conflict with prior editions and/or the sheer illogic of it.
Anyway... Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast mentions storage caverns under Hardbuckler and implies at least a few gnomes live in those caverns. So if there are canon caverns in the area, it's not unreasonable to assume there could be an underground settlement hidden nearby.
Aside from the name of the underground community, I like moonbeast's idea, and if I ever run a Realms campaign, a renamed Tanterin will be a part of it.
Oh, I know about Hardbuckler, and wasn't dismissing it. I have all my Volo's Guides handy at all times. I recognize the name.
I was dismissing the geography and any mention of 4 and 5e which IMO mutilated the maps, removed most of the detail, etc.
Storage caverns could/would exist under any settlement really.
I did just put my own settlement of gnomes in the Evermoors for Pete's sake. Who am I to judge?
Like I said, I like his take on it, just not 4/5e. It was no offense to older lore, his idea, anyone or anything (except 4e and 5e geography in general
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 00:50:54
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| Fair enough. The way it was phrased, it appeared you were dismissing the rest of the post because of the mention of 5E. That was my assumption and my bad. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 12:41:31
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Actually, 5e fixes the maps - it was 3e that mangled them badly, and then 4e that took those mangled maps and ran them through a shredder and burned what was left.
And I spent several years 'blending' the old maps with the new 3e style, and now that they went back to what they were, I find I wasted a LOT of time doing so. Eventually, when I release 'The Director's Cut' of the Under Illefarn/High Forest map (it really is one giant map). You'll see I once-again tweaked the coast to be more like 1e/2e/5e again (but not in such a way that it will ruin anything you already have, or not connect to the other maps anymore - just assume that the odd one is post-Avatar Crisis and possibly even post-Spellplague (even though that map is dated 2e). In fact, we don't even have to blame it on ANY 'magical Tomfoolery' - the coasts have been gradually eroded away for centuries (you can see evidence of this in the lore-heavy volumes Ed produced in the 2e period). Thus, when Ao hit the big ol' 'RESET' button, he may have dialed the coastline back to a MUCH earlier time period, like maybe even during the time of Athalantar (so there's my explanation of why the coastlines have been constantly changing on my maps, when it reality its just because TSR/WotC/Hasbro has been making me friggin' NUTS for years).
The new coastline up in the Frozenfar is a work of art*, if I do say so myself. Eric hinted at maybe wanting to tackle that region next, and I figured a REALLY good map would give him some incentive (not that he needs it - if creativity were blood, he'd be a hemophiliac).
*And based on RW coastlines, so I am going to have to share some credit with God here. lol |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Mar 2019 12:43:43 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2019 : 13:01:47
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Now I have to do it. :-)
George and I hinted about what we might do next after Crown of Eaerlann in the Podcast we just finished with Ed, which builds on this area. At this point though, it's just speculation. Have to finish this unbelievably huge adventure first!
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Actually, 5e fixes the maps - it was 3e that mangled them badly, and then 4e that took those mangled maps and ran them through a shredder and burned what was left.
And I spent several years 'blending' the old maps with the new 3e style, and now that they went back to what they were, I find I wasted a LOT of time doing so. Eventually, when I release 'The Director's Cut' of the Under Illefarn/High Forest map (it really is one giant map). You'll see I once-again tweaked the coast to be more like 1e/2e/5e again (but not in such a way that it will ruin anything you already have, or not connect to the other maps anymore - just assume that the odd one is post-Avatar Crisis and possibly even post-Spellplague (even though that map is dated 2e). In fact, we don't even have to blame it on ANY 'magical Tomfoolery' - the coasts have been gradually eroded away for centuries (you can see evidence of this in the lore-heavy volumes Ed produced in the 2e period). Thus, when Ao hit the big ol' 'RESET' button, he may have dialed the coastline back to a MUCH earlier time period, like maybe even during the time of Athalantar (so there's my explanation of why the coastlines have been constantly changing on my maps, when it reality its just because TSR/WotC/Hasbro has been making me friggin' NUTS for years).
The new coastline up in the Frozenfar is a work of art*, if I do say so myself. Eric hinted at maybe wanting to tackle that region next, and I figured a REALLY good map would give him some incentive (not that he needs it - if creativity were blood, he'd be a hemophiliac).
*And based on RW coastlines, so I am going to have to share some credit with God here. lol
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gnome settlements in the Sword Coast?
