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Originally posted by George Krashos

I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by George Krashos

Absolutely correct. But I'm taking Steven Schend over Anthony Pryor every day, and twice on Sundays. I know which source I'm happy to ignore/explain away. Just my 2 cp.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Which is why you have to try and make both true. Ignore one and you alienate the people that follow it. Make both true and neither side will be happy but that's life.

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Originally posted by Athreeren

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Originally posted by George Krashos

I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos

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As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he’s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

The Starym moonblade was never awakened in the context of Ethlando's High Magic ritual and never counted for that purpose. Its power came from Moander and so it remained and remains and outlier to the moonblade collective.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by Delnyn

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Originally posted by George Krashos

The Starym moonblade was never awakened in the context of Ethlando's High Magic ritual and never counted for that purpose. Its power came from Moander and so it remained and remains and outlier to the moonblade collective.

-- George Krashos

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So the Starym moonblade was never a moonblade at all before Ilitran Starym visited Moander?

EDIT: Or were moonblades created in more than one batch, with Ethlando's being only one?

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

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Originally posted by George Krashos

Absolutely correct. But I'm taking Steven Schend over Anthony Pryor every day, and twice on Sundays. I know which source I'm happy to ignore/explain away. Just my 2 cp.

-- George Krashos

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Not so sure about that. Anthony wins both chronologically and alphabetically. Plus, if memory serves, he came up with the scorpion crown, which remains to this day one of my favorite D&D artifacts. Admittedly, that was in Greyhawk, but according to WOTC, everything is FR now so wth.

Now, Stephen is a Wisconsinite and a Badger, which gives him street cred. Represent! BUT, if memory serves here, he was responsible for Realms continuity at TSR for some of the years we're talking about, so if anything this little debacle would have to fall under his FAIL category. :P

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well moonblades are linked by the high magic that makes them all part of the same magic that selects a ruler of Evermeet, but i'm guessing that doesnt count.

As for only affecting one thing, doesnt seem like a very Moander thing to do.

Illitryn Starym: "Here's my magic sword, can you remove the restrictions but dont touch anything else?"

Moander: "Of course, i promise not to mess anything up, there you go, if there's anything you need sorting bring it my way."



And of course whenever anything bad happens involving a god everyone everywhere always knows about it immediately because the good gods tell on them.

Elf: "Hey my magic sword just went dormant, let me just commune with Corellon Larethian - i have him on speed dial."
"Yeah, these swords are broken, and there is an evil sword that can teleport that caused it all, we really need to destroy that. Here's the location and list of all it's powers."

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Being a Wisconsian Weasel gives one street cred?

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

I will say that the person who wrote up the Starym moonblade should have filed it away rather than publish it.

Since that person was me, I can say it's probably my biggest regret in terms of Realmslore I wrote that got published.

Nick-Nack Two-Heads on the other hand, was brilliant.

--Eric

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

Nick-Nack Two-Heads on the other hand, was brilliant.

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Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I actually quite like the starym moonblade, if only because it's the only thing that has dared to subvert the sacred cow that moonblade are good and the high magic ritual is immune to abuse from evil or elven hubris (unlike every other high magic ritual in existence).

The fact that it is a magic item that could be a behind the scenes foe on it's own is a bonus.

Embrace the mistake, from such things come opportunities for great realmslore

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you had the chance to go back and try to make it less problematic, what would you do?

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you had the chance to go back and try to make it less problematic, what would you do?

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I think I would have created a non-corrupted moonblade that reflected the dark nature of its lineage of wielders. Rather than having a god breaking the rules, I would have detailed the individual wielders and shown how they successively added powers that were not intrinsically evil, but that collectively enabled great evil.

--Eric

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

See, I find that one harder to swallow. Without some corrupting force, that would mean that the innate magic from Ethlando was inherently flawed, and would instantly call into question Elaith's moonblade - "why did that one go dormant for Elaith before he was openly evil if the same standard does not apply to all of them". The corrupting force of Moander bypassed that problem.

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

That reminds me. Did they bring Moander back as well in the recent god restoration?

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.

I might by a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".

As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.

I might by a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".

As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.

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For example, the first property might be "charm monster."

The second property might be the "bane" property against the wielder's greatest foe.

The third property might be "disguise self."

The fourth property might be "assassination" (as in an assassin's dagger.)

None of these are inherently evil properties or would contradict Ethlando's strictures, but collectively, they would sure make for a deadly member of the Eldreth Veluuthra.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

quote:

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Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Like I said before, to me that directly contradicts the Ethlando magic. In the novel everyone was stunned when the swords killed all the noble, selfless, do anything for the sake of elves wielders. That level of morality was insufficient for even a blade with no powers. It doesn't track in my mind that a blade would be tainted by powers (created by the central magic), and over time become less morally demanding.

I might by a Neutral blade following this course. Like a druidic neutrality for wood elves or something, but outright evil is directly opposed to the "special purpose power".

As for Amunator (sp?) I never liked the combination of the sun gods. Their personalities do not jive and they should be kept separate. Dawn, Order, the burning of At'tar. All work great and should be left alone old school style.

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For example, the first property might be "charm monster."

The second property might be the "bane" property against the wielder's greatest foe.

The third property might be "disguise self."

The fourth property might be "assassination" (as in an assassin's dagger.)

None of these are inherently evil properties or would contradict Ethlando's strictures, but collectively, they would sure make for a deadly member of the Eldreth Veluuthra.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I would expect a lot of recruits for the Eldreth Veluuthra start off with more of the "elves are just better" attitude and are slowly nudged in the direction of "it'd be better if these others just weren't there."

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Originally posted by Athreeren
And finally, the fact that only moon elves ever succeeded in wielding a moonblade made me wonder about reincarnation: when an elf return from Arvandor, do they always come back as the same race? *

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Originally posted by Athreeren

quote:

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Originally posted by George Krashos

I hear what you are saying but that doesn't change the fact that -9000 DR is when that event occurs. "Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves" (p.23) couldn't be clearer.

-- George Krashos

---

As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he’s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.

It seems every source until Evermeet: Island of the Elves (and some after) have been consistent with dating the origin of the moonblades to Myth Drannor, and at this point, it might be easier to say that it is Evermeet: Island of the Elves that is wrong, since this is the result of the research of one human sage with no access to Evermeet itself. Unfortunately, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves also follows Danilo’s version of the events, so in any case, we need to ignore some sources. As it was mentioned earlier, Cormanthyr was not yet settled in -9000 DR, and it can't be a matter of making further moonblades thousands of years later in Myth Drannor. We simply can't accept all the sources on moonblades to be true without reaching a contradiction.

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Originally posted by Athreeren


As I said earlier, Elves of Evermeet and others were right at the time to say the Moonblades came from Myth Drannor: moonblades were introduced in Elfshadow, wherein Elaith Craulnober explains that "Many centuries past, the first moonblade was elvencrafted in Myth Drannor". As the last scion of en Elven family owner of a moonblade, and someone obsessed with them, he�s probably well-versed in their history; for once, there is no reason for him to lie, and saying the the FIRST moonblade was made in Myth Drannor prevents fixing things by saying that there have been several generations of moonblades.

It seems every source until Evermeet: Island of the Elves (and some after) have been consistent with dating the origin of the moonblades to Myth Drannor, and at this point, it might be easier to say that it is Evermeet: Island of the Elves that is wrong, since this is the result of the research of one human sage with no access to Evermeet itself. Unfortunately, Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves also follows Danilo�s version of the events, so in any case, we need to ignore some sources. As it was mentioned earlier, Cormanthyr was not yet settled in -9000 DR, and it can't be a matter of making further moonblades thousands of years later in Myth Drannor. We simply can't accept all the sources on moonblades to be true without reaching a contradiction.

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The Moonblades
This was also an important time for the elves, as the collec-
tive High Mages of Faerûn the Elven Court, and many elven
clan elders conceived of and created the moonblades, the
magical swords that would aid the elves in choosing more
worthy and wise rulers.
- Cormanthyr, p.23

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