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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11849 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 05:20:10
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From Lost Empires of Faerun
GOD-TOMBS
When the gods of Unther died, they were entombed in flat-topped ziggurats far from civilized areas. Inanna, Girru, Ki, Marduk, Nanna-Sin, Nergal, Ramman, and Utu were all laid to rest in this manner, but Gilgeam’s body was never recovered for burial.
Because the Untheric priests feared public disgrace if the slumber of their gods was disturbed, they filled the ziggurats with traps and other hazards to deter thievery. The sarcophagus of each dead god was placed deep within its ziggurat’s mazelike system of rooms and passages. Mechanical traps, many containing virulent poison, were placed in halls and door locks. The traps were rigged so that either disabling or springing one would activate others, creating a cascade of deadly effects. Finally, Gargantuan stone golems were built into various chambers so as to appear part of the walls.
We know that Nanna-Sin was buried on the southern edge of Unther where the dragonborn found his tomb. We know that Nergal and his still living family were entombed literally FAR outside the borders of Unther in the Great Barrow in the Great Dale. Ramman died relatively recently, so I'd expect his tomb to be in Unther.
What about the other dead gods of Unther? Where are their tombs? Are they documented? It would be these that are undocumented as I see it:
Inanna
Girru - god of fire (and possibly revered for refining of metal and brick making)
Ki - nature goddess
Marduk (aka Bahamut supposedly)
Utu - god of the sun
I'm wondering if maybe a somewhat hidden secret of Unther might not be that they experimented with Imaskari technology in the form of gates. Perhaps beings like Utu or Girru might not be buried in some far flung places in the realms and have been rediscovered under other names. After all, the Untheric deities have strong ties to both dragons AND appear/act somewhat like Primordials. I kind of wouldn't be surprised if Tezca of the Maztican pantheon and Girru might not have some linkage. For that matter, Ki and Maztica could be similar.
In this, I wouldn't want to step on Seethyr's work, and I'm not even sure how it might be accomplished to link them, but things like Utu being related to his version of Intiri (i.e. a living god king related to the sun). I'm just maybe picturing these "gods"/manifestations/primordials being buried far away, discovered by other cultures, and being reborn to life. In fact, as heretical as it sounds, the concept that the Imaskari didn't necessarily invade "another world", but rather the place where Maztica IS. OR even they invaded where Maztica is, but when it was on Abeir... and it was AFTER this that Maztica possibly merged with Toril? Possibly Maztica came over to Toril in -2488 DR even from Abeir?
As to the locations of the tombs, I wouldn't be surprised even if some of them aren't all that far away, but under lost names. For instance, Amruthar has ties to Kossuth, but it has a ziggurat as well. I kind of wouldn't be surprised if Girru wasn't buried here. We don't actually "hear" of Kossuth until almost a thousand years after the death of Girru, and in a land which was ostensibly the site of the orcgate wars and possibly even where Girru fell.
Along these similar lines, we have Zaltec slaying Maztica, but also Gruumsh (or another orc god) slaying Ki. Since Zaltec does turn people into orcs later on, he may have ties to/be Gruumsh. Both are war gods. Both are savage.
Man am I feeling a slap down coming for even talking about this idea.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 09 Dec 2018 06:36:25
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 12:53:19
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I have a map of "occupied Unther", that I guess is from Dragon 358, that shows the location of the tombs of Marduk and Nerga (sic).
Marduk's is located at the southern terminus of the western branch of the River of Swords (what the Old Empires sourcebook calls Blue Sword of the Lower Swords river). Nerga's tomb (that I guess is Nergal's) is in the point where the River Angol meets the southern frontier of Unther. In current Realms terms, both are in Tymantheran lands.
I can imagine that the Tomb of Marduk has been converted into a headquarters for the Platinum Cadre (that order of dragonborn knights that believes in Bahamut) |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 13:04:21
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I also wondered how their locations could become lost given that Gilgeam is still around.
The conclusion I came to is that the current burial places are not the originals and they were mostly buried in secret to keep it away from Gilgeam.
Interesting point. In "The Devil You Know" (last novel of the Brimstone Angels saga), Gilgeam attacks Djerad Thymar because he knows Nanna-Sin is interred there and wanted to steal his divine spark. Curiously enough, even Enlil believes that guy is not the original Gilgeam.
And yes, Nanna-Sin's body was there. For a faithless people, the dragonborn really cared for Nanna-Sin, to a point that he is revered almost as an ancestor and is hailed as the saviour of the race.
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 09 Dec 2018 13:06:18 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2481 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 14:33:23
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| That explain why the 3.x Lost Empires says Nergal's tomb is in the Dales... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 09 Dec 2018 14:36:46 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11849 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 14:46:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I have a map of "occupied Unther", that I guess is from Dragon 358, that shows the location of the tombs of Marduk and Nerga (sic).
Marduk's is located at the southern terminus of the western branch of the River of Swords (what the Old Empires sourcebook calls Blue Sword of the Lower Swords river). Nerga's tomb (that I guess is Nergal's) is in the point where the River Angol meets the southern frontier of Unther. In current Realms terms, both are in Tymantheran lands.
I can imagine that the Tomb of Marduk has been converted into a headquarters for the Platinum Cadre (that order of dragonborn knights that believes in Bahamut)
Hmmmm, that really is a good find, in that it basically provides a contradiction that works somewhat into what was being described above. Nergal and his still living family were entombed in the Great Barrow in the Great Dale (from LEoF), but here we have a god-tomb of Nergal listed as being on the border of the Unthangol mountains. However, the entry in LEoF indicates that Gilgeam built the far flung crypt, so it wouldn't be the worshippers moving the bodies. However, it might indicate that a tomb was built in Unther with a portal that links to the Great Barrow? If that's the case, there might be multiple such things where there is a local tomb, but unbeknownst possibly even to the people of Unther, the god's physical body was interred elsewhere. If the Godkings had a tradition of slaying the builders of these tombs, the people themselves might not have the slightest clue where they actually are located.
This kind of works with the idea I was proposing of the Untheric deities and the Maztican deities being similar. One thing very much to remember here is that the people of Maztica NOW are NOT the people who long ago worshipped the gods of Maztica. They came along and found old temples and re-awakened the worship of those gods. So, it would be like the Maztican peoples coming along and finding old temples dedicated to Untheric gods.
I'm not real certain if I like the idea, but it would fit with some of the concepts Seethyr has going in that the Natican people of the Lopango worship a living godking named Intiri who is a sun god. If Utu were interred in Lopango because that's WHERE they came from, and the concept of manifestations and primordials are very similar.... then perhaps sometime in the last 2500 years, Utu/Intiri was re-awakened by worshippers showing up. Or possibly like Nergal, the remaining of his mortal family was shipped off with the body, and they eventually formed what becomes the Natican people?
Similarly, Girru/Kossuth/Tezca are almost like a tripartite version of the same entity, but encompassing different versions (one good, one evil, one neutral). I could see Girru being interred in a volcano in Maztica. At the same time, I also like what I wrote above of Amruthar and Girru/Kossuth (and not necessarily conflating the two as the same being, but possibly Kossuth being Kossuth, he can "utilize" the essence of a being/primordial of fire).
I could also see Thay being so abundant with crops prior to the spellplague if Ki had her tomb there. Where? Not certain.
Also, given what I've begun to see of the similarities between Inanna, the Red Knight, and Sif, I'm somewhat intrigued with having her body be interred "in the lands of the Northmen". I would also note that the red knight was also a "goddess" who was bound to Toril in a physical body. But I'm not strong on this idea... it could just be a heresy. Still, I'm liking the ideas of conflating the idea that Inanna and Ramman, The Red Knight and Valkur, and Sifya and Thoros are all similar "relationships" as seen by mortals who have taken to "studying" multiple pantheons. Whether they ARE the same beings or AREN'T.... up to the DM.
From Lost Empires of Faerun
GREAT BARROW
Just off the Great Road, near the southernmost portion of the Rawlinswood in the Great Dale, lies the Great Barrow, a massive burial mound ringed by numerous smaller mounds. The Great Barrow was built in the heady days of the First Untheric Empire as a tomb for the slain Untheric god Nergal. Gilgeam oversaw the god’s lavish burial and sealed Nergal’s still-living family and servants inside the lesser tombs surrounding that of the deity. Once all the tombs had been buried under earthen hills, Gilgeam slaughtered the builders, raised them as undead crypt things, and set them to guard Nergal and his family.
Travelers in the area of the Great Barrow often report encountering skeletal undead that choke and gasp as if desperately trying to breathe. Whether these creatures are Gilgeam’s appointed crypt-things or the restless undead remnants of Nergal’s family remains a mystery. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
771 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 15:01:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I have a map of "occupied Unther", that I guess is from Dragon 358, that shows the location of the tombs of Marduk and Nerga (sic).
It was indeed Dragon #358 (Volo's Guide: War Upon the Sands). You can see the map, here;
https://i.imgur.com/dclk96W.png
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AJA
YAFRP
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11849 Posts |
Posted - 09 Dec 2018 : 15:02:24
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| Oh, and one big thing here I would stress... the actions of the Imaskari in essence possibly forced many deities to enter the realms for a period as manifestations/primordials/toril-bound avatars rather than true gods. Essentially, these beings became separate entities without ties to their other selves elsewhere. So, when I say something like "I'd like to see the red knight, Inanna, and Sifya questioned if they're the same being", I'm thinking along the lines that some being LIKE Sif or Inanna may have created a manifestation and sent it over. This manifestation/primordial/Toril-bound avatar then grew apart from their outer planar self. Similar things may have happened with Tyr, Helm (Heimdahl), Loki (Valigan Thirdborn), and a lot of the other entities that I've incorporated into my Metahel/Northman pantheon. They may have then come along and found other gods and basically started aliasing them to gain more worship. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Locations of the God-Tombs of Unther
