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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Oct 2018 : 04:21:36
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Has had a lot of rulers. Just thought I'd let you all know.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2018 : 04:37:03
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I DID NOT KNOW THIS! 
I am copying and pasting that info to a text file right now, so it will always be handy.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2018 : 07:05:07
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Or maybe just One Eternal Ruler. Who was the same person who was just re-surrected and/or cloned repeatedly, and assumed a different name each time.
Kinda like Manshoon and Fzoul. They never really die. They just get regurgitated. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2018 : 07:34:44
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| no... I'm pretty sure Fzoul is finally dead now. Did I miss another resurrection? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 27 Oct 2018 : 10:22:31
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That's unfair teasing!
I'm a big fan of Calimshan (and all the southern Sword Coast, thanks to the impressive work of Steven Schend, who will never be praised enough) and now I'm extremely curious as to what you will come up with. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 01:23:33
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Does that mean a new dynasty is in the detailing.
You know me. Always tinkering on a bunch of things at once.
Just a question: those of you familiar with the monarch tables in GHotR, if you were to see a product that had the list of rulers for Calimshan and it took up over 10 or so pages, would you think "information overload", "waste of space", "fantastic!", "gimme more" or "overkill"? Or any reaction really. Just curious.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 28 Oct 2018 05:03:40 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 06:55:47
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Does that mean a new dynasty is in the detailing.
You know me. Always tinkering on a bunch of things at once.
Just a question: those of you familiar with the monarch tables in GHotR, if you were to see a product that had the list of rulers for Calimshan and it took up over 10 or so pages, would you think "information overload", "waste of space", "fantastic!", "gimme more" or "overkill"? Or any reaction really. Just curious.
-- George Krashos
Depends, are there notes beside each ruler like in GHotR with maybe just a BIT more detail than what's written on those? If there are, sure, I'd love it. Courtly machinations are the stuff upon which we've all gnawed our teeth. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Asharak
Learned Scribe
France
270 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 10:16:02
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quote:
Just a question: those of you familiar with the monarch tables in GHotR, if you were to see a product that had the list of rulers for Calimshan and it took up over 10 or so pages, would you think "information overload", "waste of space", "fantastic!", "gimme more" or "overkill"? Or any reaction really. Just curious.
-- George Krashos
gimme more |
"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"
Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue. |
Edited by - Asharak on 28 Oct 2018 10:16:37 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 11:49:54
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Does that mean a new dynasty is in the detailing.
You know me. Always tinkering on a bunch of things at once.
Just a question: those of you familiar with the monarch tables in GHotR, if you were to see a product that had the list of rulers for Calimshan and it took up over 10 or so pages, would you think "information overload", "waste of space", "fantastic!", "gimme more" or "overkill"? Or any reaction really. Just curious.
-- George Krashos
I would say that the GHotR tables are good but they should give some details about the monarch beyond simple lineage. Something about their reign would be nice.
Somewhere between those brief snippets and the detail level of Empires of the Shining Sea would be nice. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 12:20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Just a question: those of you familiar with the monarch tables in GHotR, if you were to see a product that had the list of rulers for Calimshan and it took up over 10 or so pages, would you think "information overload", "waste of space", "fantastic!", "gimme more" or "overkill"? Or any reaction really. Just curious.
-- George Krashos
Give us all you've got |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 12:55:09
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Sounds great George!
I want to know what a certain Shoon Archmage Lich that was trapped in the Tome of The Unicorn is up too now. WotC wasted a wonderful Plot Hook in the 3E Era. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 29 Oct 2018 00:43:58 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 14:20:04
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| I heard he was laid low by someone using "Jarnya's Tome" sorry spelling.. They drained him. I liked the irony so i remembered that... maybe that was from one of the homebrew websites online. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 14:30:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Sound great George!
I want to know what a certain Shoon Archmage Lich that was trapped in the Tome of The Unicorn is up too now. WotC wasted a wonderful Plot Hook in the 3E Era.
They dropped pretty much all potential plot hooks when they flipped from 2E to 3E.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2018 : 14:37:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I would say that the GHotR tables are good but they should give some details about the monarch beyond simple lineage. Something about their reign would be nice.
Somewhere between those brief snippets and the detail level of Empires of the Shining Sea would be nice.
For 300+ rulers that's not really feasible. And that's just Calimshan. But there might be a way to give a bit more information than what is currently available.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2018 : 01:46:30
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| Hypothetically speaking, if I was going to try to cover some of the Calishite rulers, and I wanted to do it for the DM's Guild, I'd pick maybe half a dozen or a dozen of them, and give a very brief bio/synopsis of their rule -- and then, to make everything kosher, I'd write up a similar number of magical items associated with Calimshan and/or its rulers. Ideally, these items would have some connection to the rulers that were written about. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2018 : 20:36:09
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I don't know how deep you are already in your work George, but I will put forth this wishlist and see how it goes.
I'm assuming that by restricting to Calimshan you mean that you are starting from the unification of Coramshan and Monrativi Thesy Mir in -5005 DR under Bakkal and Murabir Ukhar IV so the first point of the wishlist is more information about this guy, the "founding father".
Second on the wishlist is the unnamed bakkal of the militaristic Tavihr dinasty that held the beholder armies at bay but was assassinated with his heirs in -2381 DR.
Third is Pasha Nakkar IV of the Erehnirs dinasty, because I want to know more about this guy that had eight 30-foot statues of himself carved out of mountainsides near Volothamp.
Fourth is Ylveraasahlisar the Rose Dragon, I think she fits the bill as ruler.
Fifth is anyone of the Drakhon priest-princes you deem most interesting: the one(s) that liberated Calimshan from the beholders, the one(s) holding the beating the beholders back on the Lake of Steam, the one(s) establishing the Imperial Navy, or the one(s) establishing the major roads and trading routes throughout the whole empire.
Sixth is not a ruler, but Ralamn the Calishite scout commander that through his deeds gave his name to the Ralamnish Ridings (later Amn).
Seventh would be the unnamed pasha that secured the loyalty of Florian Perry of the Perry Accords of -172 DR.
Oh well, I got carried away and made quite a long list, originally wanted to do 2 or 3 requests ... a man can dream, right? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2018 : 23:27:45
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I'm just happy with the names and dates. Creating dynasties is hard work so don't burn yourself out, there are many more nations in Faerun left to do.
I like your suggestions Demzer. Thanks.
The list of rulers is done and named, just have to insert a few more reigns (and lots of birth dates) for it to be "done". As for snippets on some selected calephs/bakkals/pashas/syl-pashas, that might be do-able.
Oh and one other thing. When the monarch tables were featured in GHotR, they were put in the middle of the book. Do people think that tables like that should be used in that fashion - i.e. to "break up" other material - or should they go at the end as Appendices?
Cheers and thanks for the feedback.
-- George Krashos
P.S. I've also done Coramshan and Mir. |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 30 Oct 2018 23:28:58 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 01:44:13
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
[quote]Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I
Oh and one other thing. When the monarch tables were featured in GHotR, they were put in the middle of the book. Do people think that tables like that should be used in that fashion - i.e. to "break up" other material - or should they go at the end as Appendices?
It depends on the book. If it's divided into regional sections, put the table at the end of the relevant section. If it's something like the Grand History (which I still take credit for publicizing), then put it in an appendix. The vignettes and expanded entries broke up the material without being intrusive, but pages and pages of just names and dates is too intrusive to use that way. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 10:42:17
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Oh and one other thing. When the monarch tables were featured in GHotR, they were put in the middle of the book. Do people think that tables like that should be used in that fashion - i.e. to "break up" other material - or should they go at the end as Appendices?
Cheers and thanks for the feedback.
-- George Krashos
P.S. I've also done Coramshan and Mir.
Appendices would work perfectly for me.
Personally I found the "break up" a little bit too intrusive and, as Wooly pointed out, vignettes and expanded entries took care of the job (but I don't know how this can apply to your new product). |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 14:09:24
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Thought a little more on this. As much as I'd love the data, I also look at our real world... how many of us can actually name all the presidents of the US in the last 200+ years. Granted, generally presidents change faster than hereditary rulers (lasting at most 8 years, whereas generational rulers should change about every 20 years). Add to that factor that many of them would have just held the seat and done little else. Then let's factor in that Calimshan has been around for roughly a little more than 6 millenia (which noting 300 x 20 = 6000), and I can see where there may have been a lot of rulers who need little more than a name, since we may not even have any kind of GHotR entry for that 20 year span.
Still, having said list could prove useful for other historians making up lore, in which case they can refer to it and note who was the ruler of the time.... and for those leaders that DID do something memorable, it would be great if we actually had more than a snippet... a whole paragraph about them might be nice. It could also be interesting where we find that those generational spans aren't following that standard 20 year pattern. Look at Queen Elizabeth of England. She's still kicking it, and her grandchildren are old enough to have children of their own now. Just seeing that occasionally might engender ideas in people, wherein the heir that's named may be 3 generations down (especially if the ruler used some means to enhance their lifespan... not every country has Cormyr's rules).
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 31 Oct 2018 14:13:57 |
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Rils
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 20:04:17
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| George, that's amazing work, thanks! I may be an outlier, but I'll say for myself - a list of names and dates is interesting, but not especially useful to a home game. Without knowing something about the greater picture of what happened during their time, its just a list. Not everyone needs to be detailed - like @sleyvas alluded to, the US for example has had had plenty of "caretaker" Presidents in 200 years that don't really need mentioning. But some highlights that could provide fodder to build on would be awesome. |
Dugmaren Brightmantle is my homey. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2018 : 20:32:11
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| Oh, and on the appendix or in the middle. Definitely appendix for long material. However, it may seem weird... but I always liked how they usually gave a small digestible timeline at the beginning of all the 2nd edition regional books. It gave me a quick "ok, build out WHAT happened overall", then the more detailed info that came later helped "solidify" in my head what the region was about. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 00:18:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
no... I'm pretty sure Fzoul is finally dead now. Did I miss another resurrection?
Last time we saw Fzoul he was the Demigod (Exarch) of arse kissing toadies of evil (to paraphrase) in 4e, we don't know what happened to him in 5e yet. |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 04:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Does that mean a new dynasty is in the detailing.
You know me. Always tinkering on a bunch of things at once.
Just a question: those of you familiar with the monarch tables in GHotR, if you were to see a product that had the list of rulers for Calimshan and it took up over 10 or so pages, would you think "information overload", "waste of space", "fantastic!", "gimme more" or "overkill"? Or any reaction really. Just curious.
-- George Krashos
I take it you are going from Calim to present? I can see how that would be 10 pages. Personally, I really enjoyed how the Magisters were laid out in Secrets of the Magister. However, I don't see how you could do that kind of detail for 10 pages of people without some repeating details (and the associated mental breakdown). Sometimes, less is more. The GHoTR is a good example of some entries only being a minimum of information that is just the right amount to get someone's imagination fired up. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 05:04:22
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Yes, I'm thinking I can do the table of rulers with a few tidbits scattered throughout and supplement with dates and events for a few select rulers in a timeline of sorts. That appears to be the best way forward.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2018 : 16:52:21
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| I find that I really enjoy the timelines. I went back and created a party timeline and placed all their adventures and any regional events that would have affected them or they would have heard about. It turns out they had about 15 years of adventures before they retired (roughly 1357 to 1372). Now that they are "retired", it is the time of their apprentices/followers/henchmen who have become friends (mostly) with each other as well. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Calimshan
