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Originally posted by RealmProtector

...Skullport as it was originally before the “spellplague”.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

I've had a look at Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Bit sad that there's no mention of Bandaerl, the archlich of the Lost Level, and peeved that they used Elder Runes (I had plans!) but it looks pretty solid. Their take on Jhesiyra Kestellharp is interesting ...

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I'm so tired of WotC just pulling things out of hats (I could have said that more bluntly) with no regards to previous lore.

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Originally posted by Petra_W

I liked the waterdeep adventure very much. A nice base to establish more adventures in and around waterdeep. You can just take one story path for the dragon heist, but the other 3 villains have potential for other adventures to deal with them.


Now its recommendet to progress the campaign in the mad mage book. Am I right, that it is just a dungeon crawler like "Tales of the jawning portal?". One room after another, with monsters, traps and riddles? A magic item here and there and opportunity to level up. But lore wise or history wise not much?


I think TotyP has gotten no DDAL Season, right? So Mad mage will also get no adventures at DMG? The feature just the "story adventures" like Season 8 with waterdeep?


edit and OT: Is there a chronological overview for the DDAL products on DMG? The layout there could be better.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by George Krashos

I've had a look at Dungeon of the Mad Mage. Bit sad that there's no mention of Bandaerl, the archlich of the Lost Level, and peeved that they used Elder Runes (I had plans!) but it looks pretty solid. Their take on Jhesiyra Kestellharp is interesting ...

-- George Krashos

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I can't stand their take on Jhesiyra Kestellharp.

Secrets of the Magister says that Halaster may have grabbed her -- but it also says she may have been gone from Myth Drannor before Halaster started snatching people from there, and notes that two elves saw her disappear into the woods in a web of her own spellcraft.

Me, I prefer to think that she somehow became one with the Weave.

I also think that tying Jhesiyra Kestellharp to Undermountain is problematic from the angle of Mystra's involvement with Halaster. You'd think that she'd have an issue with a former Magister being treated like that, and would have said something when she spoke to Hally. Or she would have done something directly, since Mystra's Magisters get special options from her when they die or retire. Halaster imprisoning Jhesiyra means he somehow used magic to keep the goddess of magic from getting someone she would be specifically interested in having.

So once again, WotC ignores prior lore and creates problems.

Now, from what I recall, we never had details on all of Halaster's apprentices. There was Jhesiyra Kestellharp, Arcturia, Trobriand, Muiral, and one that I just learned of: Maerlyn. That's 5 out of 7 -- so either of the unnamed 2 would have been a better choice for the role of "recaptured escaped apprentice."

I think the way I'd spin it would be to go with one of my recent suggestions, and have Undermountain act as a kind of phylactery for Halaster. The unnamed apprentice would also be permanently bound to Undermountain, but not to the point of being reincarnated/reformed as a living being, the way Halaster is. Instead, this apprentice would be a disembodied intelligence. The apprentice would be able to whisper a few words here and there, maybe manipulate things as per the mage hand spell, and not much else -- I don't know that I'd even go as far as a visible manifestation.

And because the apprentice has a bond to Undermountain similar to Hally's, Hally is utterly unable to detect him/her. He knows the apprentice is still around in some form, but can't do much about it without risking his own bonds to Undermountain.

I'm also not digging this "knot in the Weave" thing. I'm still pondering how to respin that to something else.

Edit: Cast banish typo

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Something else bugging me as I slowly read thru this Undermountain book... Why would the Xanathar Guild have that much interest in Undermountain? Sure, I can get the idea of keeping an eye on what the locals are doing, and maybe having a couple of kinda-sorta safe places in the Underhalls. But not much more than that -- there's no need for an organization built on controlling crime to be active in an area where there isn't crime. Yes, there are fools and magic and money to be found in Undermountain -- but also death and monsters and traps and adventurers and more death. For every ten people that go into Undermountain, maybe 2 or 3 make it back out -- and for every 10 of those survivors, maybe 2 or 3 come out ahead.

For a criminal organization, there is far more risk than reward, in Undermountain, and I just can't see it being worth the resources to be very active, there.

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Originally posted by Dargoth

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Something else bugging me as I slowly read thru this Undermountain book... Why would the Xanathar Guild have that much interest in Undermountain? Sure, I can get the idea of keeping an eye on what the locals are doing, and maybe having a couple of kinda-sorta safe places in the Underhalls. But not much more than that -- there's no need for an organization built on controlling crime to be active in an area where there isn't crime. Yes, there are fools and magic and money to be found in Undermountain -- but also death and monsters and traps and adventurers and more death. For every ten people that go into Undermountain, maybe 2 or 3 make it back out -- and for every 10 of those survivors, maybe 2 or 3 come out ahead.

For a criminal organization, there is far more risk than reward, in Undermountain, and I just can't see it being worth the resources to be very active, there.

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If you read further there are various Groups trying to invade Skullport and take it over(One of the Drow house for one) so Xanthars has militerised to counter that. Also Xanthars thing is having business between Skullport and Waterdeep and to travel between those you need to traverse the top 3 levels of Undermountain

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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

That's because someone at WtoC is super obsessed with Xanathar and Jarlaxe, and wanted to give them a huge role in the adventure, that's why.

So, yes. It felt forced.

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Originally posted by Dargoth

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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

That's because someone at WtoC is super obsessed with Xanathar and Jarlaxe, and wanted to give them a huge role in the adventure, that's why.

So, yes. It felt forced.

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Actually I dont think theres any mention of Jarlaxe in DoTMM

Im actually a little disappointed they didnt include MORE links with the factions in Dragon heist in DoTMM, theres a couple but I would have liked the writers to factor in the choices the players might have made in DH and who the DM may have chosen as the DH villian.

Im kind of hoping we get another RP heavy module set in Waterdeep that would more naturally follow on to Dragon Heist. (Something revolving around dealing with Neverember wouldnt be a bad idea... hmmm thats an idea, a module where you travel to Neverwinter with goal of deposing Neverember and you have multiple paths depending on which faction you sided with in Dragon Heist.....)

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Originally posted by George Krashos

Not surprised they struggled to work out what in the planes could have motivated the Emerald Enclave in the context of the adventure.

— George Krashos

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert


Now, from what I recall, we never had details on all of Halaster's apprentices. There was Jhesiyra Kestellharp, Arcturia, Trobriand, Muiral, and one that I just learned of: Maerlyn. That's 5 out of 7 -- so either of the unnamed 2 would have been a better choice for the role of "recaptured escaped apprentice."

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Originally posted by rodrigoalcanza

Hello! I acquire these books only now. I liked the look, and the text looks very good. I haven't read everything yet, I just leafed through it. I don't know if there an explanation in the book that I haven't read yet, but I've been looking at the stats for Laeral and Halaster. I was again disappointed. It seems to me that the 5th is always creating justifications for NPCs above the 20th level to be reduced in power to the limit of 20th levels. Spellcasters are limited to the spell slots list of a maximum of 20 levels, which is much more limited in the 5th edition than in previous editions (1-3 editions).

I played the 5th edition a little, but it seems to me that this edition can be great for campaigns from 1st to 16th approximately, but it is not cool above that. Maybe in a setting like Dragonlance and Eberron, the NPCs are more in the range from the 1st to the 20th level, that's fine. But in a world like Forogotten Realms, where there are an infinite number of NPCs above the 20th level, the 5th Edition seems to me very, very deficient.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I found another two quibbles... There are some great NPC names in there, but a halfling named Mookie Plush? I'm sorry, that sounds like someone looked at their kid's favorite stuffed animal for inspiration.

Also, Jarlaxle has a safe, with a combination lock on it. They could have gone with a standard keyed lock, but they decided to go with a combination lock. And rather than make it something random, they decided to be cute with it and make it an Easter egg.

To me, just the fact that they made it a combination lock and provided the combination draws attention to it -- and I'm not a fan of Easter eggs that have big neon arrows pointing to them that say "Look! An Easter egg!"

Me, if I'd've wanted to include that particular Easter egg, I would have been more subtle about it... Maybe Jarlaxle had some papers that needed to be rifled thru, and an important one was dated "20 Hammer, Year of the Forged Sigil." That's an Easter egg you have to look for. It's the same reference, without the "Hey, look at this!" flags and banners.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

It's not really. We do it all the time. You just miss most of them.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by George Krashos

It's not really. We do it all the time. You just miss most of them.

-- George Krashos

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I don't mind when a joke or an Easter egg gets worked in, provided it's not something like this. Easter eggs are generally hidden, and that's fine. Putting a big sign with flashing lights and arrows pointing to it is not.

The combination calls attention to itself, because combination locks are not a thing we've seen in the Realms before.

The submarine calls attention to itself for the same reason. It was distracting enough for me that the name didn't click until later, for me. I couldn't get past the inclusion of a submarine to pay attention to the odd name of it.

Both things, in fact, are elements generally not seen in fantasy. I can only think of one other fantasy book I read that had submarines, and in that book, they were necessary -- it was a water world, and the submersibles were the only way to travel.

And neither element was necessary. There was no need for a combination lock. There was no need for a submarine.

Like I'd mentioned earlier, if the combination had been written down as a date, something you had to work through, then that would have been another thing. It wouldn't have been obvious.

The Zardoz Zord thing -- that's just a bad name. But if it was only that name, and nothing else, I'd've not made the connection. It was looking at the other jokes that made this one stand out.

So they included an anachronistic element for the sake of a joke, another for the sake of an obvious Easter egg, and then threw in another Easter egg on top of all that.

A friend of mine has become a published author. One day I cracked a joke referencing an inside joke that went back to an online community we'd both been a part of, years ago. She was at work on another book, at the time, and immediately decided to work in a reference to that inside joke.

It was a minor detail. She wasn't sure her editor wouldn't cut it. The editor let the line pass, so it made it to print. And it's just a single line, a reference that no one would notice unless they were aware of the joke. That's the kind of Easter egg that works.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

Well, for fun I put this into my personal timeline at home, years ago:

-411 DR Year of Scarlet Marpenoth
The Silent Maw of Sashelas, a coral artifact of great power is stolen by the sea elf rogue priest Shorun Konry from the temple of Ussralumaar, in the present-day Dragonmere.



Thank you, thank you. I'm here till Thursday. Try the rothe.

-- George Krashos

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