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mlan
Acolyte
7 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 06:47:19
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Hello all,
I'm playing in an 3.5 campaign. I have an ur-priest that I'm thinking of turning into a lich. My question is,
'what does elminster think of liches?'
I was thinking I could give him my phylactery ring as a token gift.(DM made it clear he would show up as a quest giver if we went to his forest.)
Would he instantly try to destory it?
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In my stubborn youth, I believed that I could stand alone, that I was strong enough to conquer my enemies with sword and with principles. Arrogance convinced me that by sheer determination, I could conquer helplessness itself. Stubborn and foolish youth, I
must admit, for when I look back on those years now, I see quite clearly that rarely did I stand alone and rarely did I have to stand alone. Always there were friends, true and dear, lending me support even when I believed I did not want it, and even when I did
not realize they were doing it. |
Edited by - mlan on 31 Mar 2018 06:48:01
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 08:03:24
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| more that likely he would use the weave on it and disenchant it without you ever knowing |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 16:19:35
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What possible reason could you have as an ur-priest to entrust your soul-jar to Elminster, a chaotic good chosen of a goddess, unless you were feeling suicidal?
I can't see why Elminster would feel kindly disposed towards ur-priests. One of the requirements for ur-priests is Spell focus (evil), and your entire existence is bent around hating the gods. Elminster, meanwhile, is chaotic good and is his goddess's favorite. Your existence alone is anathema to clerics, how do you think a Chosen would feel? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 16:23:32
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Elminster's position on liches is the same as his position on living mages: it's not what they are that matters, it's what they do.
It's canon that he's on good terms with at least baelnorn, and those are just good elven liches. I'm pretty sure there's an archlich or two (good-aligned variant liches) that he hangs out with, too, in canon.
As for giving him your phylactery... I think Elminster would instantly know exactly what it was he was being given. And a single misstep afterward would cause him to either destroy it, put it in the path of some heroes so they could destroy it, or even better, hand it over to an enemy of said lich. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 16:44:31
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Elminster's attitude toward 'liches' is his attitude toward every other 'group' - he doesn't have one. He judges each and every person he meets on a case-by-case basis, and he IS friends with several liches, not just archliches and baelnorns. So long as they continue to promote magic and The Weave, how 'evil' they go about things has very little to do with his decisions (just make sure NONE of your actions can be construed/interpreted as 'getting in the way of magical development', because he is GOOD, and he doesn't mind using the rules Mystra's handed him as an excuse to help others).
I think his personal set of ethics would have him refuse such a 'gift', for several reasons. Plus, I am sure that if Elminster wanted to find ANY lich's phylactory (including Larloch), he could - he has ways of tracing the connections of things that no-one else has (aside from gods). Killing liches isn't his purpose, although sometimes he might have to as part of his purpose (if they are being 'tyrants of magic'), and he certainly wouldn't want the bother of safe-keeping one's phylactory. He is NOT a 'guard dog', he is a CHOSEN OF MYSTRA. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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mlan
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 17:12:37
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The campaign is in a future faerun where dopplegangers have secretly taken over all major cities in the moonsea area and enslaved the humans there breeding them as a food source for the ratlings. My ur- priest feels the gods abandoned them and is trying to genocide the entire race of ratlings (which are working for the dopplegangers). I think that should answer several questions here.
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In my stubborn youth, I believed that I could stand alone, that I was strong enough to conquer my enemies with sword and with principles. Arrogance convinced me that by sheer determination, I could conquer helplessness itself. Stubborn and foolish youth, I
must admit, for when I look back on those years now, I see quite clearly that rarely did I stand alone and rarely did I have to stand alone. Always there were friends, true and dear, lending me support even when I believed I did not want it, and even when I did
not realize they were doing it. |
Edited by - mlan on 31 Mar 2018 17:13:12 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 20:58:34
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quote:
Originally posted by mlan
The campaign is in a future faerun where dopplegangers have secretly taken over all major cities in the moonsea area and enslaved the humans there breeding them as a food source for the ratlings. My ur- priest feels the gods abandoned them and is trying to genocide the entire race of ratlings (which are working for the dopplegangers). I think that should answer several questions here.
Sorry, but it does not.
In fact, it raises more questions, like how people have been enslaved without knowing it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2018 : 21:59:37
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| -Elminster would be wholly neutral towards the character, assuming the character isn't aggressive towards him or anything. Why the character would be giving Elminster his phylactery, that's the part that is eyebrow raising. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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mlan
Acolyte
7 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2018 : 05:09:52
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So, a bit more background on the campaign which may change the context. The campaign is a future FR where an army of drow, orc, and ratlings have destroyed the human settlements in the area around Phlan. They then enslaved all the humans and killed the intelligent ones, selectively breeding only the least intelligent over the centuries. Humans are now like they are in planet of the apes. Our party is trying to save the last elven and dwarven city (among other things). I can't predict how Elminster will act if and when we meet him. (DM heavily suggested he is in a forest near by).
My thought was giving the phylactery to Elminster would mean it was safe, and Elminster would take an 'enemy of my enemy' approach. I just didn't know if he has some preconceived issue with liches. |
In my stubborn youth, I believed that I could stand alone, that I was strong enough to conquer my enemies with sword and with principles. Arrogance convinced me that by sheer determination, I could conquer helplessness itself. Stubborn and foolish youth, I
must admit, for when I look back on those years now, I see quite clearly that rarely did I stand alone and rarely did I have to stand alone. Always there were friends, true and dear, lending me support even when I believed I did not want it, and even when I did
not realize they were doing it. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2018 : 06:52:45
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So, what's stopping the resident archmages from slapping down the drow and orcs? I genuinely can't see the dozen plus double digit level spellcasters and allied nations not raining hell down on the drow - who only work together through author fiat - and the orcs. This is the sort of thing that sparks off a pogrom that'll probably end with every drow, dark elf, orc and half-orc wiped off the face of the planet.
I mean, humans and elves have more epic level characters between them than the drow and orcs combined, and I can't see the human pantheons or the Seldarine twiddling their thumbs while their people are being wiped out. This is pretty much grounds for every drow on Faerun to be exterminated with extreme prejudice, with non-Lolthite drow cities hurrying to disavow Menzo and its satellite cities. |
Edited by - LordofBones on 01 Apr 2018 06:54:37 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2018 : 14:23:13
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| Find a nice secure location(Deep Underground with no access outside of Teleport. A natural cave or create one). Place Phylactery in said secure location. Done. Also stock secure location with a lot of dead bodies. You may need them if your current body gets destroyed. A smart Lich will have a fail safe. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3743 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2018 : 15:59:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
Find a nice secure location(Deep Underground with no access outside of Teleport. A natural cave or create one). Place Phylactery in said secure location. Done. Also stock secure location with a lot of dead bodies. You may need them if your current body gets destroyed. A smart Lich will have a fail safe.
-Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like burying it somewhere random is probably the safest place for something like that. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2018 : 19:22:51
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Your campaign is in the future so nobody except your GM can tell how would anybody react as we are missing a lot of information. There were a few educated guesses but that is about it. I would say he would take it but his reaction afterwards would be based heavily on your actions. He might be happy for hero who cannot die inhis attempt to save the world or he could influence your actions easily with such kill-switch or he could just kill you.
There is a saying in my country that you are dumb if you give gifts but even dumber if you refuse them. |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2018 : 23:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by mlan
'what does elminster think of liches?'
To give you an Ed answer: "Whatever your DM says Elminster thinks of liches".
I dunno how I'd have Elminster react if I was the lich. In my game Elminster is currently busy playing the "game of worlds" where he devotes almost all of his energy trying to stop people from gaining control over portals that lead to other planes and worlds. Alas there are just so many of them on the Forgotten Realms and there are so many other high level wizards also trying to gain control of them that he can't possibly win. So if you bothered him as a lich and said "hey. I'm no threat to you or the countries you care about. In fact, I'm one of the good guys. Could you look after my phylactery please" my version of Elminster would say "Sure. Just voluntarily fail this will save. If you trust me with your phylactery then trust my enough to not ask any further questions". I'd then have Elminster read your mind, determine your true motives and if you are who you say you are I'd find a nearby ancient and forgotten tomb and stick your phylactery there and think no further on you.
If you refused to fail the Will save (and somehow resisted the Will save) or if you weren't being truthgful with Elminster I'd have him banish you and the rest of your group off to some other portion of Faerun (typically one where he's currently feuding with another high level mage), put you in a spot you shouldn't be (but a spot you have a chance of causing trouble for the mage and likely surviving for at least the immediate future) and then go back to work.
Almost guaranteed that is not how your DM will have Elminster react. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
Edited by - JohnLynch on 01 Apr 2018 23:27:18 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11831 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 03:25:50
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What is Elminster's position on liches? Well, it depends on the lich.... some like it doggy... some reverse cowgirl... some just straight up missionary  |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 11:56:25
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
What is Elminster's position on liches? Well, it depends on the lich.... some like it doggy... some reverse cowgirl... some just straight up missionary
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2018 : 12:37:31
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Little-known fact, Elminster has "Lich-Loved" as a free feat. Liches, vampires, bodaks, mohrgs...everything is acceptable.
On the other hand, the clergy of Velsharoon is minting gold on undead-only therapy sessions. |
Edited by - LordofBones on 02 Apr 2018 12:38:10 |
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Elminster's position on liches
