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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 22:28:35
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Is there any such deity officially in the Realms? I am surprised there isn't one mentioned, considering how universal drunkenness is.
I look through the list and I can't really find any deity that fits this other than Lliira considering she is goddess of festivals, joy, dancing. Basically a "hard partying" goddess so I figure her patronage over alcohol would make sense.
Sharess is another, considering hedonism and sensual pleasure also could involve alcohol, but Lliira seems to be a better fit.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 23:27:23
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The universality of it isn't the issue. The cultural importance of it is. Ilsensine once said he was surprised the Realms didn't have a god of "cups and saucers" -- but it's all about how people look at these things.
There's not a human god of mischief, either.
Pathfinder has a mercenary who became a deity on a drunken dare -- but even he isn't about drunkenness. He's about freedom, bravery, ale, and wine. And yes, those latter things can lead to drunkenness -- but he's more about drinking to have a good time.
Lliira would, I think, cover the same thing: alcohol as part of celebrating and having a good time. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 01:34:03
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Saint Dionysus, called the drunken god, patron saint of wine and spirits of the alcoholic kind. :)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Saint_Dionysus
He's a saint of the Church of Ilmater. I imagine the suffering aspect comes largely in the hangover. I play a very merry Monk/Drunken Master of his order. 
There's almost certainly also a minor dwarven deity of drunkenness somewhere. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 02:37:52
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
There's almost certainly also a minor dwarven deity of drunkenness somewhere.
I would think not. If you're drunk, you've lost control, and you're not being productive. Neither of these things appeal to dwarven minds, I should think. |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 03:19:57
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Hanseath, in the core 3.5 book Races of Stone, is a dwarf god of alcohol, carousing, and, as usual, war. His shrines are festhalls, his prayers are drinking songs, his rites are feasts.
And okay, that's specifically alcohol rather than drunkenness, but his priests are inevitably going to be buzzed, tipsy, soused, sloshed, plastered, or some other degree of drunk. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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Gelcur
Senior Scribe
523 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2018 : 07:30:53
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Hanseath has to be one of my favorite new gods in a long long while. He fills a gap that was very much missing in general but also specifically for Dwarves.
We play the god as having been missing and suddenly he has a following again. Not sure if I or my players read this somewhere or we made it up at our table. But we have a fighter Dwarf who dipped a single level of cleric and we always joke that his strong belief in drinking and fighting is what brought back Hanseath. Part of his story at one point revolved around followers of the god finding him and bestowing on him Mithral Battle Plate, which makes the character look like a beer keg and leaves only his beard sticking out. All they asked for in return was he keep doing what he is doing but to mention Hanseath from time to time.
Great fun. |
The party come to a town befallen by hysteria
Rogue: So what's in the general store?
DM: What are you looking for?
Rogue: Whatevers in the store.
DM: Like what?
Rogue: Everything.
DM: There is a lot of stuff.
Rogue: Is there a cart outside?
DM: (rolls) Yes.
Rogue: We'll take it all, we may need it for the greater good. |
Edited by - Gelcur on 21 Feb 2018 07:31:25 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2018 : 13:06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Saint Dionysus, called the drunken god, patron saint of wine and spirits of the alcoholic kind. :)
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Saint_Dionysus
He's a saint of the Church of Ilmater. I imagine the suffering aspect comes largely in the hangover. I play a very merry Monk/Drunken Master of his order.
There's almost certainly also a minor dwarven deity of drunkenness somewhere.
You know what... given that Ilmater is based on Issek of the Jug... and having never read the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser books, so I'm guessing.... did Issek of the Jug use drink as an aid in order to handle his torturing? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2018 : 00:53:55
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I haven't read them either, but I came across Issek in Legends & Lore yesterday. One of his symbols is a jug, which he's depicted with. He can pour out any liquid he wishes.
However, from the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser books, it seems the jug is used to pour the "Waters of Peace from the Cistern of Cillivat". So probably not wine.
http://scrollsoflankhmar.com/rpgguide:issek |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2018 : 01:44:57
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I'm sure that aspects of Llira's portfolio would work and in fact, there might be a heretical element of her church - the Followers of the Flagon - who believe that you can only feel joy if you are in fact drunk or drugged.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2018 : 13:37:19
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
I haven't read them either, but I came across Issek in Legends & Lore yesterday. One of his symbols is a jug, which he's depicted with. He can pour out any liquid he wishes.
However, from the Fafhrd & Gray Mouser books, it seems the jug is used to pour the "Waters of Peace from the Cistern of Cillivat". So probably not wine.
http://scrollsoflankhmar.com/rpgguide:issek
Gotcha. So Issek is more of a Jesus Christ figure. Interestingly enough though, it seems Issek had many different "aspects"... as there was apparently Issek of the Burnt Legs, Flayed Issek, Issek the armless, and many other "mutilated divinities of the same name". Given that our Ilmater is not specifically associated with being "racked to death" like Issek of the Jug, maybe he might represent "the overarching Issek" divinity.
Hmmmm, from that perspective.....yeah, about to commit some sacrilege.... Tyr and Ilmater.... they lived in the same house... part of the "Triad" together...
Now Issek of the Jug, whom Fafhrd chose to serve, was once
of the most lowly and unsuccessful of the gods, godlets
rather, in Lankhmar. He had dwelt there for about thirteen
years, during which time he had traveled only two squares up
the Street of the Gods and was now back again, ready for
oblivion. He is not to be confused with Issek the Armless,
Issek of the Burnt Legs, Flayed Issek, or any other of the
numerous and colorfully mutilated divinities of that name.
Indeed, his unpopularity may have been due in part to the
fact that the manner of his death -- racking -- was not
deemed particularly spectacular. ... However, after Fafhrd
became his acolyte, things somehow began to change.
[ Swords In The Mist, by Fritz Leiber ] |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2018 : 22:49:09
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Ok maybe Drunkenness was the wrong word, but I basically mean something like Dionysus. Alcohol, wine, drunkenness. That kind of portfolio.
Except he's a Saint and not a deity with the portfolio in the Realms. It appears Lliira is the closest due to her "let's party!" aspect. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2018 : 15:10:22
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Hanseath, in the core 3.5 book Races of Stone, is a dwarf god of alcohol, carousing, and, as usual, war. His shrines are festhalls, his prayers are drinking songs, his rites are feasts.
Races of Stone is a generic D&D book, not set in the Realms. Another point to remember is that dwarves are highly resistant to toxic substances, and so to some effects of alcohol. Maybe drunkeness would be a state that goes beyond carousing, which would be their preference. And in it I agree with Wooly, about the importance of being productive and under self-control in dwarven society. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2018 : 07:47:07
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Why not an entire pantheon of drunken Gods?
Or rather, various 'gods of alcohol & revelry' from all different pantheons have their own 'club'. Maybe a Finnish deity of Vodka (from Sossal), a good of ale for the dwarves (that hanseath dude), a good of mead from the Hin, We already have St. Dionysius for Wine, but perhaps we can separate wines as well? I can see a god of rice Wine from the Shou pantheon. Etc., etc...
Someone like Jack Sparrow should be the God of Rum. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2018 : 16:16:22
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Senior Scribe Razz,
Azul, of the Maztican pantheon is literally the god of drunkenness. 
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Is there any such deity officially in the Realms? I am surprised there isn't one mentioned, considering how universal drunkenness is.
I look through the list and I can't really find any deity that fits this other than Lliira considering she is goddess of festivals, joy, dancing. Basically a "hard partying" goddess so I figure her patronage over alcohol would make sense.
Sharess is another, considering hedonism and sensual pleasure also could involve alcohol, but Lliira seems to be a better fit.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2018 : 18:30:19
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There's a Midgard deity that covers beer, too, and she is rather popular among dwarves.
Lose that campaign setting's insistence on being vague and contradictory with their deities (to the point they usually don't list an alignment), and Ninkash would readily fit in with the Morndinsamman.
From page 266 of the Southlands Campaign Setting (the Southlands are the Midgard version of Africa):
quote:
NINKASH
Mother of Beer, Goddess of Merriment, Patron of Brewers and Tavern Keepers, Matron Goddess of the Cantonal Dwarves
Domains: Beer (Midgard Campaign Setting), Charm, Community, Liberation, Strength
Subdomains: Family, Freedom, Home, Love, Resolve
Alignment: Good
Favored Weapon: Mace
Dwarves love ale and consume prodigious amounts of it -- at least by human measures -- and, when they do, they become incoherent, clumsy, or simply fall asleep. The dwarves call this last condition “gone,” short for “gone to visit Ninkash.”
Indeed, the matron mother goddess of ale and merriment was a great gift to the dwarves from the Kariv, who brought their goddess with them to the clan halls and brotherhoods from Nuria to Sebbek Sobor. Ninkash turned brewing and drinking, once the work of Ptah’s stern priests, and sometimes still found in his shrines, into a more frequent and joyful sacrament, though still a serious one. Ninkash embraced the dwarves, and they embraced her.
The public face of Ninkash is a golden-glowing, oversized tankard with a simple handle; it is an ever-full vessel that floats in midair. To her faithful, she appears as a jovial, buxom dwarven woman clad in flowing robes that are nut-brown at one moment and golden the next. Her garments are simple as a tavern maid’s. The goddess appears barefoot, her clothes unbelted and low-cut. Ninkash always smiles. When displeased, her smile is slighter and she shakes her head. When pleased, she beams and extends her arms to sweep all into her bosom.
Interestingly -- and perhaps in support of my earlier musing that drunkenness isn't something dwarves would embrace -- there's this bit, from the Beer Domain, on page 227 of the Midgard Campaign Setting:
quote:
Granted Powers: Ninkash’s sweet nectar invigorates your mind even as it dulls those around you. The secrets of Ninkash’s faith grant you a +2 sacred bonus to Fortitude saves against ingested poisons. Also, Profession: Brewer is now a class skill for you.
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2018 : 01:07:10
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Master Rupert,
Interesting reference. I've never heard of that campaign setting.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
There's a Midgard deity that covers beer, too, and she is rather popular among dwarves.
Lose that campaign setting's insistence on being vague and contradictory with their deities (to the point they usually don't list an alignment), and Ninkash would readily fit in with the Morndinsamman.
From page 266 of the Southlands Campaign Setting (the Southlands are the Midgard version of Africa):
quote:
NINKASH
Mother of Beer, Goddess of Merriment, Patron of Brewers and Tavern Keepers, Matron Goddess of the Cantonal Dwarves
Domains: Beer (Midgard Campaign Setting), Charm, Community, Liberation, Strength
Subdomains: Family, Freedom, Home, Love, Resolve
Alignment: Good
Favored Weapon: Mace
Dwarves love ale and consume prodigious amounts of it -- at least by human measures -- and, when they do, they become incoherent, clumsy, or simply fall asleep. The dwarves call this last condition “gone,” short for “gone to visit Ninkash.”
Indeed, the matron mother goddess of ale and merriment was a great gift to the dwarves from the Kariv, who brought their goddess with them to the clan halls and brotherhoods from Nuria to Sebbek Sobor. Ninkash turned brewing and drinking, once the work of Ptah’s stern priests, and sometimes still found in his shrines, into a more frequent and joyful sacrament, though still a serious one. Ninkash embraced the dwarves, and they embraced her.
The public face of Ninkash is a golden-glowing, oversized tankard with a simple handle; it is an ever-full vessel that floats in midair. To her faithful, she appears as a jovial, buxom dwarven woman clad in flowing robes that are nut-brown at one moment and golden the next. Her garments are simple as a tavern maid’s. The goddess appears barefoot, her clothes unbelted and low-cut. Ninkash always smiles. When displeased, her smile is slighter and she shakes her head. When pleased, she beams and extends her arms to sweep all into her bosom.
Interestingly -- and perhaps in support of my earlier musing that drunkenness isn't something dwarves would embrace -- there's this bit, from the Beer Domain, on page 227 of the Midgard Campaign Setting:
quote:
Granted Powers: Ninkash’s sweet nectar invigorates your mind even as it dulls those around you. The secrets of Ninkash’s faith grant you a +2 sacred bonus to Fortitude saves against ingested poisons. Also, Profession: Brewer is now a class skill for you.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2018 : 03:38:08
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Interesting reference. I've never heard of that campaign setting.
It's from Kobold Press, and is for Pathfinder and 5E. Instead of the typical Western Europe spin, it draws more from northern and eastern Europe (especially Norse mythology). It's somewhat darker in tone, without being grimdark or horror (horror is not my thing, and I can't stand grimdark).
I've only got three complaints about the Midgard setting:
1) They've decided that not giving a definite alignment to deities, and making it questionable if deity A is related to, opposed to, or actually deity B makes deities more mysterious and therefore more interesting. To me, that makes them more like depersonalized concepts, and since I first saw it in 2E D&D, I've hated the idea of worshipping a concept.
2) The map of the Southlands is way too obviously a slightly modified map of Africa. I don't mind the African inspiration, and I really like the Southlands -- especially Per-Bastet, Nuria Natal, and the nkosi -- but I wish they'd done something else with the map.
3) I love the idea of the white gorillas of the Southlands, but I dislike how they all carry a disease that specifically harms arcane casters.
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2018 : 21:33:46
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Master Rupert,
Thank you for the clarification on that. I have heard of the Southlands, but never looked into it. I didn't even realize that it was a part of Midgard.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
Interesting reference. I've never heard of that campaign setting.
It's from Kobold Press, and is for Pathfinder and 5E. Instead of the typical Western Europe spin, it draws more from northern and eastern Europe (especially Norse mythology). It's somewhat darker in tone, without being grimdark or horror (horror is not my thing, and I can't stand grimdark).
I've only got three complaints about the Midgard setting:
1) They've decided that not giving a definite alignment to deities, and making it questionable if deity A is related to, opposed to, or actually deity B makes deities more mysterious and therefore more interesting. To me, that makes them more like depersonalized concepts, and since I first saw it in 2E D&D, I've hated the idea of worshipping a concept.
2) The map of the Southlands is way too obviously a slightly modified map of Africa. I don't mind the African inspiration, and I really like the Southlands -- especially Per-Bastet, Nuria Natal, and the nkosi -- but I wish they'd done something else with the map.
3) I love the idea of the white gorillas of the Southlands, but I dislike how they all carry a disease that specifically harms arcane casters.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2018 : 22:12:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Hanseath, in the core 3.5 book Races of Stone, is a dwarf god of alcohol, carousing, and, as usual, war. His shrines are festhalls, his prayers are drinking songs, his rites are feasts.
Races of Stone is a generic D&D book, not set in the Realms. Another point to remember is that dwarves are highly resistant to toxic substances, and so to some effects of alcohol. Maybe drunkeness would be a state that goes beyond carousing, which would be their preference. And in it I agree with Wooly, about the importance of being productive and under self-control in dwarven society.
MTOFs 5e book made him an FR deity along with a bunch of other demihuman deities. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2018 : 22:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Hanseath, in the core 3.5 book Races of Stone, is a dwarf god of alcohol, carousing, and, as usual, war. His shrines are festhalls, his prayers are drinking songs, his rites are feasts.
Races of Stone is a generic D&D book, not set in the Realms. Another point to remember is that dwarves are highly resistant to toxic substances, and so to some effects of alcohol. Maybe drunkeness would be a state that goes beyond carousing, which would be their preference. And in it I agree with Wooly, about the importance of being productive and under self-control in dwarven society.
MTOFs 5e book made him an FR deity along with a bunch of other demihuman deities.
Just curious... since its told from Mordenkainen's perspective and he's in Greyhawk, would you still say it makes Hanseath an FR deity? I see him listed amongst the Mordinsamman list of deities, but that doesn't mean that he's a deity in FR (i.e. the Mordinsamman is the name used by the dwarven family in FR, but that doesn't mean that all members of the Mordinsamman have been allowed into FR). I wouldn't be upset to include him, but that would also mean that all those dwarven deities are also now realms gods (that would be about 7 new ones). Not a problem in my book, but I know it would/could irritate some. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2020 : 01:27:47
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Great Reader sleyvas,
Definitely:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hanseath
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Hanseath, in the core 3.5 book Races of Stone, is a dwarf god of alcohol, carousing, and, as usual, war. His shrines are festhalls, his prayers are drinking songs, his rites are feasts.
Races of Stone is a generic D&D book, not set in the Realms. Another point to remember is that dwarves are highly resistant to toxic substances, and so to some effects of alcohol. Maybe drunkeness would be a state that goes beyond carousing, which would be their preference. And in it I agree with Wooly, about the importance of being productive and under self-control in dwarven society.
MTOFs 5e book made him an FR deity along with a bunch of other demihuman deities.
Just curious... since its told from Mordenkainen's perspective and he's in Greyhawk, would you still say it makes Hanseath an FR deity? I see him listed amongst the Mordinsamman list of deities, but that doesn't mean that he's a deity in FR (i.e. the Mordinsamman is the name used by the dwarven family in FR, but that doesn't mean that all members of the Mordinsamman have been allowed into FR). I wouldn't be upset to include him, but that would also mean that all those dwarven deities are also now realms gods (that would be about 7 new ones). Not a problem in my book, but I know it would/could irritate some.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2020 : 02:45:43
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The Forgotten Realms fandom wiki isn’t canonical.
In fact, read the notes. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 29 Feb 2020 02:47:32 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2020 : 15:18:15
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Good morning Great Reader Darden!
I certainly do not dispute that the FR Wiki is not canonical. I appreciate that nonetheless! :)
I had thought for some reason that Hanseath had been listed in the 5th ed PHB, and that was listed in the citations at the end, hence my listing the URL (plus, some possible other sources I wasn't sure of). However, after reviewing it, it was in fact Hanseath was not in there. I'm grateful for your reply as it had me go double check.
Best regards!
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
The Forgotten Realms fandom wiki isn’t canonical.
In fact, read the notes.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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God of Drunkenness
