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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 16:58:46
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In Krash's Renegades of Darkhold we were told that Sememmon is in fact a clone of the original Sememmon created by Manshoon.
Today I was thinking about this, and to me it suggests a possibility:
What if Manshoon, as a matter of course, kept tissue of all his elite Zhentarim mages and apprentices - or even stasis clones set to activate at his will?
In the former case that would me that literally no Zhentarim mage we believe dead is "gone." In the latter case that would mean, most likely, that the Manshoon wars had an additional, less noticeable effect of instantly creating numerous other clones that never became part of the 'clone wars' and instead set to work with all their ebil ways.
The possible list here would be almost endless.
As my brain is spit-balling, I'd also think that Manshoon's work with cloning would include cloning monsters. While the clone spells we know do not allow this, perhaps he developed a series of 7th level variations of the standard clone spell like "clone beholder," or "clone _fill-in-the-blank_" or a more general 8th level "clone monster." That way he could make a beholder ally, when it dies, replace it with a clone that has some magical manipulations and controls built in, AND use its old body to make a death tyrant. This would explain where he gets so many beholder corpses.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 19:25:53
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| I wouldn't expect the Manshoon Wars to have any effect on any non-Manshoon clones that he created -- the Manshoon Wars were triggered by having multiple clones of a person who had just died. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 19:43:29
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Possibly... but who knows - maybe it was like a momentary weave glitch. I lean in the same direction as you though. For me, it solves the not being a fan of the good Sememmon/Ashemmi plot twist. Once they die, just put their clones back in play :P
Hell, we can wind this WAY back to Spellfire days. Shadowsil's dead? Nope I have a clone of her laying in stasis around here somewhere :) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 20:11:55
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EVERYONE.
His clones cloned people, who then cloned other people, and so on and so forth.
That is why EVERYONE who was alive in 1e/2e/3e is still alive in 5e.
He never got a chance to clone anyone created in 4e, so they're all dead.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2018 20:12:29 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 20:13:50
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| I'm not enthusiastic about him cloning everyone around him... But I don't know of anything that really rules it out. I'd not go that route, myself, but I can't argue against it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 20:40:15
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| I certainly wouldn't go with everyone, but say a dozen or so powerful Zhents cut and paste into current days would certainly make updating the Zhentarim much simpler :P |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 21:01:36
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Why not? Didn't you know? Ao himself is a Manshoon clone. 
So you prefer everyone got stuffed into a Bluefire thingy instead? Its not really any worse, you know. 
HEY... what if... the Manshoon clone thing really did get out of hand. Or something similar? The Spellplague hits, and suddenly duplicates of people are popping up all over the place. Ao quickly applies a 'fix' - he takes everything Spellplague (and clone) related AWAY FROM TORIL, and creates another world (its not like he hasn't done this before). The 'infected' (Spellplagued) world is the one we got in 4e, with all the clones.
Meanwhile, regular, good ol' Toril was just fine. It got over the Spelplague in just one day, with nary a scratch (as it's done with every other RSE in its existence). Heck, there could be hundreds of 'Abeirs' out there - worlds where Ao had to 'dump the data' and use a back-up.
"Use the lore to fix the lore". I just gave an in-setting reason why campaigns set in both a post-plague and no-plague worlds can co-exist. Thus, playing in one does not invalidate the other. It might even be fun for DMs to run a game where their characters accidentally shift worlds for a time ("Hey, what happened to the tielflings? Why do they all have such huge racks? And where the hell did all these dragonborn come from? And why does Storm have blonde hair now?") Sliders meets FR. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2018 21:03:44 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2018 : 22:27:48
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| Blue-fire only better because why would Manshoon make a clone of an enemy and then set them lose to be his enemy. Would take some serious enemy of my enemy reasoning for that :P |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 04:35:16
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| Just a thought here. He may have gathered said genetic material, then stored it away, wrote down some notes about it.... then he was going over to touch his stasis clone to update the memories (because his spell worked that way originally).... blammm... got killed. So, the material's been hidden away for the last century and even HE didn't know about it, until he finds one of his old notebooks. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 04:52:50
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| In fact, in 4e there a lot of Manshoon clones out there. Many of his clones in stasis awakened in 1479/1480 (player characters of any race can be Manshoon clones if using the respective background—so, its not limited to actual Manshoon clones but also other clones created by Manshoon). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 06:43:23
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you know... I just had a mordenkainen thought.... Ill just keep it to myself,,,, it is on this topic though...
great now I have that master archmage on the brain... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 12:51:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
you know... I just had a mordenkainen thought.... Ill just keep it to myself,,,, it is on this topic though...
great now I have that master archmage on the brain...
Khelben? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 14:14:59
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| Manshoon will never admit it, but he cloned his familiar, an adorable calico kitten. After he's done blasting off again, he awakens in one of his lairs and awakens his cloned kitten, then wearily scratches its neck, promising "Next time, Mr. Wigglesnoot. Next time." |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 17:03:43
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Hell, we can wind this WAY back to Spellfire days. Shadowsil's dead? Nope I have a clone of her laying in stasis around here somewhere :)
I've wanted her back in the Realms ever since she was killed. She was the only 'kewl' female villain we had, IMHO, of course. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 18:22:46
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I liked her, but only because she was this oddity that somehow made Manshoon love something (aside from himself).
As for her character, VERY tropey female villain. Spiteful to the point of stupid.
Somewhere out there, in another quantum reality, is the planet Abeir-Manshoon, where EVERYONE is a Manshoon!
So Khelben and Mordenkainen (and perhaps Doctor Strange) are really just all clones of some Master Archmage? Kewl!He's like a God with avatars! And they meet at the Council of cross-time Khelbens.
(Not to be confused with the Council of Cross-Time Kangs, which includes Manshoon). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Feb 2018 18:24:44 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 18 Feb 2018 : 23:39:23
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The Khelben is Mordenkainen thing has been suggested before. I think this is because a good deal of Waterdeep and Greyhawk mirror each other and they both have beards :P.
Biggest problem with Mordenkainen was that he was both an NPC and a possible PC. Way back when I played Mordenkainen - only to find out he's a major NPC and not mine any more. I think he might be the only pre-generated game character to ever become a major NPC. I might be wrong about that of course.
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe
Canada
124 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2018 : 16:30:38
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| In my home campaign, the Manshoon clone intrigue had gotten so out of hand I had several evil wizard players pretending to be Manshoon clones just to screw with the Zhentarim hierarchy. Suffice to say that when the actual Manshoon clones came around, there was lots of bloodshed. |
"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline." |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2018 : 18:30:13
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Hell, we can wind this WAY back to Spellfire days. Shadowsil's dead? Nope I have a clone of her laying in stasis around here somewhere :)
I've wanted her back in the Realms ever since she was killed. She was the only 'kewl' female villain we had, IMHO, of course.
Problem solved. Note however that she would still be Zhent Shadowsil not Cult Shadowsil. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2018 : 18:31:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
In fact, in 4e there a lot of Manshoon clones out there. Many of his clones in stasis awakened in 1479/1480 (player characters of any race can be Manshoon clones if using the respective background—so, its not limited to actual Manshoon clones but also other clones created by Manshoon).
Go - where does this come from? |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 19 Feb 2018 : 23:35:58
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
you know... I just had a mordenkainen thought.... Ill just keep it to myself,,,, it is on this topic though...
great now I have that master archmage on the brain...
Khelben?
eh no, he would have more preferred to keep the balance enough to pull a circle of 8 and in keeping the balance have khelben cloned |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Possible People Manshoon Cloned
