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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 06:57:44
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While reading the 2nd edition book on the North, I came upon an entry about a half-elf who is a multiclass Cleric of Karsus. Who would be granting spells in the name of Karsus?
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 07:31:59
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| His own Vestige, perhaps? Or just the faith of the guy in him? Kinda new concept, but since 3e strong faith in a philosophy or idea is able to create divine magic as useful as that of the gods. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 12 Jan 2018 07:32:35 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 08:18:17
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You are referring to the entry on Tianna Skyflower.
She first appears in FR5 The Savage Frontier, and then was reworked for The North some years later.
In FR5 she is a 8th level magic-user / thief. She worships Malar but she is not a priest of any kind.
In "The North" she is called a "Princess." She is given the levels T12 / M11 / P5 [Karsus]. It also notes that she has moved from Karse to the Shining Falls.
If she was confined to the Dire Woods then I'd argue that perhaps she derived some sort of power from the Karse Stone. All I can come up with is that while in the DireWoods she picked up some kind of possessing spirit that was once part of the Cult of Karsus in Karse. Especially since it is completely against 2nd edition rules for a multi-classed m-u/t to then also become a priestess.
The other major change in those parts is that someone or something contained the dire wood in a circle of white oaks. Perhaps there is some correlation. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 11:49:41
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Eric Boyd had a play with Tianna in his High Forest work and I think dispensed with the P5 (Karsus) while explaining the “Princess” bit. Away from my sources atm, but will check soon enough. In 1E/2E days spells of levels 1-2 didn’t actually need divine connection, so maybe the sliver of Karsus’ divinity was enough to fuel such spells despite him being a dead god.
— George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 13:13:27
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Zero had exactly the right idea for most folk's campaigns. If you're playing 3rd edition, I'd say turn Tianna from a priest and into a binder. Most people wouldn't truly understand the difference between a binder and a priest unless they saw the binder doing their binding. They would just consider them another kind of spellcaster. Since she also has a lot of levels of thief, I'd also recommend reducing those and switching in some anima mage and arcane trickster.
If you did want to keep her as a divine spellcaster, there is precedent for a vestige to still be granted clerical magic even though they are no longer a god. Tenebrous is a vestige with a complicated history surrounding Orcus. First there was Orcus, then there was a short span with Tenebrous, and now a reborn Orcus is out there. Now, let's compare that to Karsus. First there was Mystryl.... then there was Karsus.... then there was Mystra. Granted the time that Tenebrous was around was a good bit longer, but the idea with Mystryl/Karsus/Mystra is still "a god mantle mounted on a mortal form". So, there's effectively a template for this idea when you look at the Tenebrous Apostate prestige class, and you'd just need to include appropriate switchouts for some of the class abilities. Personally, I'd probably center them around metamagics. You could effectively convert say 8 of those mage levels into anima mage, and say convert 1 priest levels into binder and take the improved binding feat, convert 3 more priest levels into this new divine-binder prestige class, and then convert 8 of the thief levels into arcane trickster and 1 more in that divine-binder prestige class. That would give the character the same basic build concept (lot of mage/thief, focus on magic, some minor priestly power). But, it would be the abilities of a 19th level wizard, a 13th level binder that can bind up to 15th level vestiges, a 5th level divine caster, and sneak attack up to 6d6. You could also just drop the priest thing entirely, go full on anima mage and thief, and just use the binding as the divine thing.
Oh, and after I wrote all that up, I'm realizing that three part class you listed wasn't for 3e... that's 2e... Ah, I'll still leave it for the concept.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 14:17:41
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| As much as I hate to say it... I'd have Shar grant spells in Karsus's name. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 16:27:28
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I would suggest Mask grants her powers.
As a 5th level priest Tianna wouldn't have access to many divine spells or powers anyhow, basically limited to 3rd level magics, so self-faith or localized power provided by the Karsus stone "avatar" might be enough. Karsus might have basically become the divine counterpart of a "mythallar" and now (unconsciously) be radiating "divine quasimagic" within his proximity, accessible to any person (or construct) who is properly attuned.
I note that Tianna was originally described as a Thief/Mage who tacitly worshipped Malar, later described as a higher-level Thief/Mage and also minor priestess of Karsus. The whole Karsus angle could be some kind of clever scam and a hoax (manipulated by Tianna herself, or manipulated through Tianna by one of the ne'er-do-well divinities). Shar is a secretive manipulative paranoid hater, Mask is into crafting such intrigues for his own (or Shar's) purposes, Cyric has been known to falsely claim divinity before, and Leira (if she's still around at all) is all about being worshipped behind deceptions. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 12 Jan 2018 16:32:11 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 16:39:22
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| I would play her at a level 5...but only access to 1st and 2nd level spells. The 5th level would contribute only to Hit Dice, Saving Throws and Combat ability. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3741 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 23:17:59
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Eric Boyd had a play with Tianna in his High Forest work and I think dispensed with the P5 (Karsus) while explaining the “Princess” bit. Away from my sources atm, but will check soon enough. In 1E/2E days spells of levels 1-2 didn’t actually need divine connection, so maybe the sliver of Karsus’ divinity was enough to fuel such spells despite him being a dead god.
— George Krashos
Weirdly, i couldn't find anything in the newer pdf, but in an older word file I found this about Tianna by Eric -
quote:
Half-elf daughter of Tamath; founder of the Renegades of Twilight; last blood heir of the ruling family of Eaerlann.
And this...
quote:
1357 DR Year of the Prince
Tianna of the Twilight, now calling herself Tianna Skyflower, returns to the High Forest and proclaims the founding of the Twilight Realm.
EDIT:
I found a full entry for her (still no stats though - they are probably somewhere else), but I am loathe to share that much info that doesn't belong to me, so I'll just share this one last piece which explains some of the Karsus thing -
quote:
Description: Of mixed human, moon elf, and drow ancestry, Tianna is a dusky-skinned and dark-haired half-elf with a blaze of purest white through the crown. Thanks to her ring of Pellerith (see page 157), she has the ability to change her appearance at will, adopting wholly different guises and personalities. Her known alter egos included a human cultist of Karsus, a lupine Huntmaster of Malar, a haughty gold elf noble wizard, a proud half moon-elf ranger, and a cruel drow priestess of Lolth.
EDIT2:
Okay, I was looking in the wrong pdf. He has her as a straight lev. 16 Beguiler, which explains the MU and thief parts, and her magic ring explains the Karsus bits. Damn, this guy is thorough. The statistics write-up is as long as her other write-up! (she has quite a colorful past - hopefully someday this will be able to be released somehow... DM's Guild, perhaps?) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jan 2018 23:46:15 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 16:47:58
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| What is this all from? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2018 : 19:02:42
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An unpublished product. Eric Boyd did two of them - the first one, concerning the Daggerford region (Shining Vale) he showed around Gencon 2012, and a bunch of it ended up in a published product about Daggerford (I have no idea if he was compensated for that). He then did a 'pt.2' AP/regional sourcebook concerning the High Forest, called The Crown of Eaerlann. None of that was ever released or 'shown-around' as the earlier one was, but a few of us lucky folk helped him with the project and got copies. It remains unpublished... which is a DAMN SHAME.
The earlier work - Under Illefarn Anew should also be released, despite some of it already appearing. The complete work is SO much better. I have posted The Map of the Shining Vale on my DeviantART page, for posterity, but I've been awaiting Eric's approval to go ahead and post the High Forest one. The two maps sync-up perfectly (I went back in and fine-tuned the earlier one to make it all work together).
EDIT:
The locales in Orlumbor were provided by Ed Greenwood, who also contributed to the project(s). George Krashos also helped out, and Steven Schend was consulted on the High Moor. I'm not sure who else may have been involved. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Jan 2018 19:06:11 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 02:13:41
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so much stuff not published for no good reason over the years.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 05:47:58
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so much stuff not published for no good reason over the years.
People keep buying what Wizbro keeps selling so no "better" reason strictly needs to exist. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 14 Jan 2018 05:48:22 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2018 : 19:41:16
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| A bit late to the discussion, but personally I'd have either Mystra or Azuth be granting spells in Karsus's name. Purely because they want to keep a close eye on anyone who decides to worship someone who caused such havoc. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Who would be granting spells in the name of Karsus
