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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 17:43:21
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So I'm curious:
Is there a rule that says Odin can't be worshiped in the Forgotten Realms? I know there is a temple to him on the Rock of Bral:
quote:
Temple of Odin:
One of the oldest and most respectable of the small shrines of Bral, the Temple of Odin was founded more than 50 years ago. A group of viking spacefarers and their spelljamming priest were swept to the Rock by a odd space storm, and they were unable to find their way home. The warriors eventually took wives and started families, forming a small nordic community that was eventually reabsorbed by cosmopolitan Bral. In the meantime, the temple actually began to attract a few scattered worshippers besides the Vikings and their families. The current priest may or may not be in contact with Odin, depending on where the DM wishes to place Bral. Even if the All-father is not known in Bral's sphere, he will be soon, if the congregation grows much larger. Its numbers are now about 100.
How would a Cleric of Odin be handled in Faerun?
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 09 Jan 2018 17:43:55
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2018 : 18:20:07
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A few things come to mind.
I think Odin would allow full clerics and clerics with ranger, fighter, wizard and warlock levels into his clergy. I'd limit a clerics attainable higher level spells as long as Odins worship base is so small. In practice I'd let my player play a cleric from low level and onwards, with the burden of his actions/survival determining the course of Odins worship on Toril. With 100 worshippers he'd get second level spells as the highest spells he could pray for, 1000 would unlock third level, etc (i.e. the highest level of granted spells is equal to the number of zero's of the worship base total).
Perhaps Tyr, Valkur and Helm would watch over the cleric, sometimes granting higher level spellpower and allies in times of great need. He would be generally accepted with cautious glances of rival faiths on his travels through the realms, and I think he would best guard for ambitious rival clerics of Tempus or the forementioned allied gods. A religious take-over of a devout community would be relatively easy if the portfolios align but the rival cleric possesses greater political and mystical power. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 02:48:56
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| Nothing preventing his worship, but the question becomes would Odin actually WANT to enter realmspace with such a small following. He may simply get another deity to "fuel" his spells for his worshippers in return for some of the faith energy. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 03:06:55
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I once had a theory that Odin was Gruumsh (which actually makes more sense with the 4e lore that Gruumsh = Talos), but except for the 'losing an eye' thing, its really not a good fit. Thor is a much better fit for Gruumsh, actually.
I never understood why Gods - that have multiple avatars, can appear however they like, and are really just globs of energy - can EVER permanently lose a body part. Thats never made sense to me, and yet you see it in multiple pantheons. I think that may be where a lot of my original ideas about 'Dogma' came in (that, and the movie) - that Gods are stuck with the 'consensus' of the worshipers in a crystal Sphere, and If they think you have one eye, or a missing hand, etc... then you do. UNLESS you (the god) are making a conscious effort to override the 'default' with an aspect of your own. And doing that is based upon the number of opposing believers, and the power-level of those believers (overcoming the Dogmatic aspect requires expending more energy, which could leave an aspect weak and vulnerable). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 04:03:38
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There was a great write-up of the Norse gods in dragon long ago - probably a little before 3rd Ed. It had rules for magic use, priesthoods, etc. I'd look there. "Runecasters" or wizards who worship Odin are still the most powerful spellcasting kit i.m.o. The only limits they had to spell capacity was on how much time they had to prepare. Loved it.
I had a PC runecaster that saved the entire party a dozen times, and the price they paid was sweet :P |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 05:37:58
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| Tyr would probably watch over him. Odin's actual portfolio overlaps with Tempus, Mystra and Kelemvor/Myrkul, so chances are that the cleric won't get any converts. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 06:21:29
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Odin's focus is on wisdom, healing, death, royalty, knowledge, war, magic, poetry, and the runic alphabet from what I've found.
So I know with Magic he is opposed automatically by Mystra.
There are also powerful gods of healing, death, knowledge, war and poetry as well. There is a minor god of Nobles too, and even a god that has to do with runes. So not much would be available for him to be worshiped for without direct opposition to some other god.
All that is within the Faerunian Pantheon though...so on the Rock of Bral he is good if he wanted to be right?
So as long as he has a presence in Realmspace, his cleric would have full access to his magic if he happened to be in Cormyr, Waterdeep or even in Shou Lung right?
Is this wrong? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 12:03:54
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| If he has a presence in Realmspace, his cleric can still cast spells. If not, chances are that Tyr looks after worshippers of the Norse pantheon or that Odin has to cut a deal with one of the Faerunian pantheon, depending on the aspect of him that the cleric venerates. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 12:57:24
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Versions of Odin and Thor are worshipped on a number of other D&D worlds which may have had sporadic contacts with the Realms.
Clergy who travel to other worlds, spheres, and planes can often access their deity's powers through local proxies, this often occurs in Spelljammer and it sometimes occurs in Planescape. Tyr seems the most obvious candidate for providing divine power to Odin's worshippers in the Realms, indeed they may actually be a group of Tyr's faithful in the Realms who simply recognize him by another name or aspect. (And in real-world mythologies the distinctions between Tyr, Odin, and Thor were sometimes blurred as each rose to prominence in different places and different times. Remember that "Norse mythology" in D&D is just a snapshot pastiche of a living and changing religion which existed across many cultures and many centuries, and that what we know of it is largely based on how it was recorded by Christianity after contact with Christianity.) Carrying the mantle of faith for another deity might be an ad-hoc cooperation or cosmic alliance sort of thing - alternately, it might even be an automatic "subconscious" response for a deity being tacitly worshipped, it might even be an "involuntary" obligation for a deity in possession of compatible portfolios - and Tyr is certainly the one deity in the Realms who cannot ever defy any rules, break any promises, or ignore any obligations imposed (by his own "kind") upon him. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 10 Jan 2018 13:18:54 |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 14:06:21
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One way I can think of is to start with Odin as a semi-dormant aspect of Tempus. And that Uthgar is both their representative exarch.
Hell, it even makes sense to complete the circle if you could get away with Uthgar being an aspect of semi-dormant Thor.
Tyr is still Tyr (who is well established in both pantheons). |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 14:23:12
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IIRC, On Hallowed Ground (a Planescape sourcebook) says that few multi-spheric gods have an interest in being worshiped in the Realms, because few gods find attractive the idea of being subservient to an overpower. And Ao became rather infamous after the ToT for its heavy-handed methods to handle the gods. In fact, it says that many gods of the Realms became interested in being multi-spheric because of the ToT.
The few gods from other pantheons that went to Realms were those that have lost their favor with their own pantheons (Tyche) or were losing so many followers that preferred to be subservient to Ao instead of having no followers (Tyr).
So, why Odin would be interested in being a servant of Ao, when he is free to do whatever he wants in the planes? |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 15:06:37
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Zeromaru: good point, since Odin was overgod of a Pantheon in Norse Mythology. Ayriks solution would work, certainly.
I wouldn't think Odin would get into trouble with Mystra, though, if you goes with a version close to the original. Odin as an norse overgod, was an wizard/sorcerer god, as part of his part as the Divine King, king of gods, and the god of Kings. To explain: the Germanic tribes had a "divine king" tradition. The Chieftain was both high priest and chieftain (but not warleader). His position was thus both proxy from the divine to the mundane, and mundane to the divine. Faults of the chieftain, as improper rituals or issues the people faced due to his failures (as not providing rain, dead crops..), could lead to them strangling the divine King/chieftain and throwing him in a bog, as sacrifice. The Zulu kings were quite similar, as some native American Mesoamerican and southern city state kings.
The "Norse Odin" is actually a later, quite advanced version of Germanic religion, so whatever source in D&D one uses, it could have existed a version somewhere I know nothing about (or no one knows more) who fits that "D&D Odin". Gods change  |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 15:57:39
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I have a hard time with the Ao situation...my personal Forgotten Realms doesn't exist with "it" in them. Since it is so heavily established though it is hard to work around.
So...taking into account ONLY the Old Grey Box Era of the Forgotten Realms: since Tyr is in the Forgotten Realms, Odin would have to know about the place I would think...there just isn't much ol' Shifty-Eye wouldn't know about. So if a Cleric of his were to find itself in the Forgotten Realms, either Tyr would by proxy grant spells is my feeling. Odin might not become involved in the Forgotten Realms at all really.
From 2nd Edition FR on we have Ao to contend with and I think it doesn't really change much. With a shrine on the Rock of Bral and about 100 worshipers (who obviously are granted spells) it is either that Ao allows Odin to do so because only ON Toril do the Pantheons have exclusive rights...or again Tyr simply is Odin's proxy and grants spells.
So if a cleric of Odin finds himself in the Heartlands, he is one way or another going to get his spells granted to him.
But how would other religions treat someone who was adventuring in "their turf" and making famous the miracles of an Interloper God such as Odin?
This cleric, as a cleric of Odin, is NOT likely to be shy about his god! Would the cleric face challenges from clerics of Tempus? How would Oghma's clerics treat him when he claims his god is the God of Knowledge? How would Mystra's Chosen and clergy treat someone who says Odin is the God of Magic?
I'm looking for ideas on how this individual would even survive long on Toril. We can even narrow it down to the area of the Heartlands.
We'll call this Cleric Asger.
Asger is from anywhere that Odin is the Norse God he is. Somehow Asger finds himself as a young man (level 1 Cleric of Odin) in Battledale after he and his group were exploring some ruins of the elves in his homeworld and he fell through a portal and was cut off from his party.
Asger (meaning "Spear of God") is a very devout believer in Odin and will never waiver in his faith. He sees his emerging into Battledale from the nearby woods as a test of his faith and a path to learning.
What is this fella's life going to be like in the Forgotten Realms? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 17:35:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
So I'm curious:
Is there a rule that says Odin can't be worshiped in the Forgotten Realms? I know there is a temple to him on the Rock of Bral:
[...]
How would a Cleric of Odin be handled in Faerun?
Not a worshipper of a "present" deity. Since you already started with spelljamming background, solutions come with the problem:
use Icon/Sanctuary
Contact Home Power spell
Detect Powers spell, then pray to an equivalent (which may vary with spheres and alignment - Tempus, Deneir, Oghma...) or related/allied (Tyr?) god as a substitute. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 17:46:16
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Asger's Odin would probably be received in the Realms as just another cult. Perhaps one which could attract many followers and much power in some small area. Probably one which simply worships a known god (like Tyr or Tempus) by an unknown name. Possibly one which attracts some attention from established religion(s) in the area, for good or for ill.
In death, Asger himself would likely face the Wall of the Faithless. In life, he would find his "new" religion needs to convince followers that they will not face the same.
I do agree that Odin is nominally seen as the highest god of his pantheon. Higher than Tyr, in most versions of the mythology. I could understand Odin attempting to displace or subjugate Tyr, but it wouldn't be in his nature to accept divine station inferior to an overgod like Ao. Don't forget that Odin is also a god of fate and prophecy, he has seen the future and his own death in the final battle which ends his world, and his efforts to delay (not prevent) this inevitable end are his primary focus. He may be completely disinterested in diverting any part of himself, his power, or his attention to other worlds - even worlds (like the Realms) which have manifestations of his pantheon (like Tyr and Kezef). And then again, Ragnarok is prophesied (by Odin) to come all the worlds connected by Yggdrasil - even if Odin only "saw" nine known worlds and others (like "Realmsgard"? "Reichsgard"?) also exist beyond the limits of his "all-seeing" vision. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 10 Jan 2018 17:54:23 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 17:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
In death, Asger himself would likely face the Wall of the Faithless. In life, he would find his "new" religion needs to convince followers that they will not face the same.
So even though not from the Forgotten Realms, he would go to the Wall of the Faithless? Well that just sucks...lol |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 18:06:43
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| A reason I really dislikes that part of the Realms. Heck, for years I refused to play in the Realms just because of that damned wall (I was an inexperience DM, back then). But hey, without Ao you don't need that thing. IHMO, that thing doesn't exist before the metaplot of the ToT... right? |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 10 Jan 2018 18:07:33 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 18:16:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
A reason I really dislikes that part of the Realms. Heck, for years I refused to play in the Realms just because of that damned wall (I was an inexperience DM, back then). But hey, without Ao you don't need that thing. IHMO, that thing doesn't exist before the metaplot of the ToT... right?
Not in my AD&D campaign no...hell, the Forgotten Realms was so simple then.
Which I think Odin would be ok to have in the FR only using the originally written setting. Hell, so many of the Forgotten Realms gods are from good ol' Earth that Odin wouldn't be a stranger to the place's existence. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe
Canada
124 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 18:52:56
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| Considering Silvanus is a celtic Earth god as well, in addition to another deity whose name I can't quite recall at the moment, I doubt there would be too many problems. Silvanus seems to have a large enough following already being a greater god and all :) |
"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 20:14:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
A reason I really dislikes that part of the Realms. Heck, for years I refused to play in the Realms just because of that damned wall (I was an inexperience DM, back then). But hey, without Ao you don't need that thing. IHMO, that thing doesn't exist before the metaplot of the ToT... right?
The bulk of the published Realms comes after the Tot metaplot. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 20:49:32
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| Again - the wall of the Faithless is not where people from cults go. It is where people who deny the very existence of the gods end up. Basically, its where we'd send modern day atheists :P |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 21:06:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Again - the wall of the Faithless is not where people from cults go. It is where people who deny the very existence of the gods end up. Basically, its where we'd send modern day atheists :P
I've ignored that Wall and other things so long I've forgotten:
Where do people who believe in a God that exists/existed go? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 21:20:36
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Depends on which god they believe in. And the people like cultists have the privilege of having their souls fought over :P This is the description from Faiths and Avatars. The answer to Darlor's question is down in the section about petitioners and the Fugue Plane. The first couple sentences of this hits the problem most here have on the head. It is rare for people in the realms to worship only 1 god. Strange even. This doesn't fit with how we think so causes people trouble.
The religions of the Forgotten Realms are not monotheistic. They are polytheistic. This is difficult for many role-playing game players to understand, as most real-world nonoriental religions of the modern era are monotheistic. In polytheistic religions, multiple deities are worshiped, usually in groups called pantheons (meaning all the gods of a people). In the Realms, the religion of Mulhorand involves the worship of a family of deities. The religion practiced over most of Faerûn involves the worship of a collection of powers who are not generally related by blood. The religion practiced in Chult is the worship
of but two deities and a collection of ancestral, place, and animal spirits, along with a regard for the force of nature. The philosophy of the Shining Lands of Durpar, Var the Golden, and Estagund sees all things in the world as connected and part of a single creation spirit, the Adama or the One; all the many powers of the Realms are different aspects of the One, and consequently the Shining Lands are some of the most religiously tolerant in the Realms, with literally all deities being reverenced here (although the Faerûnian pantheon holds the Shining Lands within its sphere of influence—see below).
All of these religions involve the worship of multiple powers within a pantheon, although not necessarily multiple pantheons. This is the normal state of affairs in the Realms. Thus, in abstract it is really ridiculous to think of one deity of the Realms becoming angry at a worshiper just for worshiping another deity. What matters to a particular Realms power is not that a follower
worships someone else — most everyone in the Realms worships several someone elses — but rather which other powers are venerated and which are appeased, and how serious a person’s offerings and worship are to other deities. Some pantheons even do not care if their worshipers also venerate deities from other pantheons.
It is also rather silly to think of a particular temple having a congregation that is exclusive only to it, except in special cases. The folk of the Realms worship in many places, and they worship the powers both by venerating them and by placating them. If a person has a high regard for knowledge or is a singer or bard in most of Faerûn, she or he worships Oghma. But if that same person is planning an ocean voyage in winter, she or he also worships Auril and Umberlee by placating them with offerings to persuade them to allow the trip to proceed safely. Most folk have a handful of powers that they regularly venerate, only appeasing an unpleasant power when they are entering or engaged in a situation where that deity holds sway. Most people in the
Realms also eventually settle on a sort of patron deity who they are most comfortable venerating and who they hold in the greatest reverence. A person’s patron deity is the power that eventually escorts that person’s spirit from the Fugue Plain, the place where spirits go right after people die, to its afterlife as a petitioner in the Outer Planes in the realm (or at least the plane) of its patron deity.
(Those who firmly deny any faith or have only given lip service most of their lives and never truly believed are known as the Faithless after death. They are formed into a living wall around the City of Strife — Kelemvor, the new lord of the dead, may soon rename it — in the realm of the dead in Oinos in the Gray Waste and left there until they dissolve. The unearthly greenish mold that holds the wall together eventually destroys them.
The False, those who intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they made a personal commitment, are relegated to eternal punishment in the City of Strife after their case is ruled upon by Kelemvor in the Crystal Spire (Kelemvor’s abode in the City of Strife).
Some folk of Faerûn choose to devote their lives to a particular god. Most often these people are priests; others belong to other classes, such as paladins or mages. These folk are expected to he loyal to their faith because of the commitment they have personally sworn to a power, although they may respect the faiths of other deities who their deity serves or is allied to. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 22:09:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Depends on which god they believe in. And the people like cultists have the privilege of having their souls fought over :P This is the description from Faiths and Avatars. The answer to Darlor's question is down in the section about petitioners and the Fugue Plane. The first couple sentences of this hits the problem most here have on the head. It is rare for people in the realms to worship only 1 god. Strange even. This doesn't fit with how we think so causes people trouble.
I've never had an issue with it, myself, because of one of the lines you included: "Most people in the Realms also eventually settle on a sort of patron deity who they are most comfortable venerating and who they hold in the greatest reverence." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 22:15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Again - the wall of the Faithless is not where people from cults go. It is where people who deny the very existence of the gods end up. Basically, its where we'd send modern day atheists :P
I've ignored that Wall and other things so long I've forgotten:
Where do people who believe in a God that exists/existed go?
I don't believe they've fully addressed what happens to followers of fallen gods... I would say that it depends on what happened to the deity in question.
Post-ToT, for example, Myrkul was dead (or at least, not a deity). Cyric had taken over his portfolios, so someone who worshipped Myrkul would have gone to Cyric. When Kelemvor then took over being the deity of the dead, he would have picked up those followers -- or the worshipper would have picked someone more in line with their particular beliefs, like Velsharoon for those Myrkulites of the "Undead are cool!" variety.
But then there are the odd cases, like Murdane -- if anyone has her portfolios, I don't think it's ever been said. In that case, I would say that the follower would wind up as a kind of civil servant in Kelemvor's realm. They're not punished by being stuck in the Wall, but they're not one of his faithful, so they wind up in a kind of neutral middle ground. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 23:17:11
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From the TOT novels, we know that the outcome of souls in dispute are determined by Kelemvor. Gods state their case and he judges. Before him it was Myrkul (I assume), and likely Jergal. Basically they say "This guy prayed to me 10 times" vs. "Oh yeah, well he cast spells every day so clearly he worships magic." That kind of thing.
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 23:20:34
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I wonder if the Abeirans who ended up in Toril during the following years of the Spellplague, ended up as false or as civil servants of Kelemvor. They literally did not had gods or a concept of religion in their world, and I feel is really unjust they ended up in the damned Wall for something that wasn't even their fault. Heck, that makes me think that every god in the Realms is evil for allowing that Wall to be made in the first place.
Returning more pleasant topics, I guess that if you don't use Ao in your campaign, then is settled. Odin can have whatever cult in the Realms, with whatever level of attention he wants to his followers, without a problem. Because it was Ao the one who invented those ridiculous rules about "just only one god per portfolio" and that stuff. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 00:09:44
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| Ya know, this thread got me thinking. They rolled Talos into Gruumsh in 4e, so what if - instead of simply bringing Talos back (because now everyone knows its really Gruumsh) - they just kept Wulfgar dead and he could have easily become our Thor-like god, taking the place of the missing Talos. He already had the returning hammer. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 07:20:24 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 00:45:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Odin's focus is on wisdom, healing, death, royalty, knowledge, war, magic, poetry, and the runic alphabet from what I've found.
So I know with Magic he is opposed automatically by Mystra.
There are also powerful gods of healing, death, knowledge, war and poetry as well. There is a minor god of Nobles too, and even a god that has to do with runes. So not much would be available for him to be worshiped for without direct opposition to some other god.
All that is within the Faerunian Pantheon though...so on the Rock of Bral he is good if he wanted to be right?
So as long as he has a presence in Realmspace, his cleric would have full access to his magic if he happened to be in Cormyr, Waterdeep or even in Shou Lung right?
Is this wrong?
That would be right. He could plop down his clergy amongst the Metahel of Anchorome and possibly be very welcomed. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Storyteller Hero
Learned Scribe
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 00:48:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I wonder if the Abeirans who ended up in Toril during the following years of the Spellplague, ended up as false or as civil servants of Kelemvor. They literally did not had gods or a concept of religion in their world, and I feel is really unjust they ended up in the damned Wall for something that wasn't even their fault. Heck, that makes me think that every god in the Realms is evil for allowing that Wall to be made in the first place.
Being sent to the Wall is not immediate. Every unclaimed soul is examined and judged after a waiting period, during which servants of gods, demons, devils, etc. can try to sway the souls towards their side.
Kelemvor is committed to fairness, so much so that he gave up his own humanity to become an impartial judge.
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Edited by - Storyteller Hero on 11 Jan 2018 00:51:05 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 00:49:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
Zeromaru: good point, since Odin was overgod of a Pantheon in Norse Mythology. Ayriks solution would work, certainly.
I wouldn't think Odin would get into trouble with Mystra, though, if you goes with a version close to the original. Odin as an norse overgod, was an wizard/sorcerer god, as part of his part as the Divine King, king of gods, and the god of Kings. To explain: the Germanic tribes had a "divine king" tradition. The Chieftain was both high priest and chieftain (but not warleader). His position was thus both proxy from the divine to the mundane, and mundane to the divine. Faults of the chieftain, as improper rituals or issues the people faced due to his failures (as not providing rain, dead crops..), could lead to them strangling the divine King/chieftain and throwing him in a bog, as sacrifice. The Zulu kings were quite similar, as some native American Mesoamerican and southern city state kings.
The "Norse Odin" is actually a later, quite advanced version of Germanic religion, so whatever source in D&D one uses, it could have existed a version somewhere I know nothing about (or no one knows more) who fits that "D&D Odin". Gods change
Then there was the Odin who liked to drive a car and con people who were trying to make bank deposits. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Odin in the Forgotten Realms
