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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 17:51:05
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Getting back to the original idea.
A world dominated by orcs COULD be an ideal place to adventure if some of the following are the case there:
1) The Orcs weren't originally the only major sentient race; and so there are numerous ruins of other people now gone. Based on this, orcs in this world may not have had enemies such as elves or dwarves; but may have had enemies that were non-traditional such as Lizardfolk, Bullywugs and so on. I picture one race, the Firenewts (from ye ol' Fiend Folio) that would be awesome foes to orcs. They could dominate volcanic areas.
2) Even though the orcs managed to create empires, they have warred so long and hard against ancient foes now gone and each other that these empires have shattered since the Gray Orcs came to Faerun. The land itself may not have been able to support their numbers and so smaller localized "Realms" may be in existence such as City-States or such in small pockets separated by wasteland that orcs can't live in but can travel through.
3) Other races, perhaps once slaves of the orcs, have broken free and are now either independent of the orcs all together; or at least in a stagnant stalemate against them. The Firenewts, able to live in the hottest extreme climes, could dominate areas now that the orcs can't swarm for lack of food? Other races might be strong on islands with fleets that the orcs can't counter because they can no longer build ships in their lands for lack of timber...it was stripped and no typical forest remains. Whereas on the Islands other races could allow forest growth and use it to create ships to sail the seas and even support "colonies" on/near the mainland (built in defensive coastal positions) in fortresses able to withstand orc attack.
4) The Orc Pantheon may not control all orcs on the world. Some may in fact worship other powers: demons, devils, even non-evil entities of war, power, strength and so on. When the Gray Orcs continued to summon Avatars of the Orc Gods in the Orcgate War, it could have proven to be a distraction that enabled other entities to gain a foothold that then grew later. I can see Devils (such as Moloch) appealing to Orcs who resorted to summoning them to fight their foes when an Orc God favored their enemy over them. A desperate group of Orcs might even summon a Titan (or even a Solar) via a gate to spite a foe even if it meant their own destruction. Such summoning might be intentional or might be an accident. There is no end to Evil creatures fooling Good Casters to summon them so they can gain a foothold in a world...why wouldn't Good entities want a chance to fight and exterminate evil? Perhaps the Mulan even sent beings to the Orc World to summon Good creatures to help shut the Orcgate?
5) Portals TO the Orc World were opened and spilled into the world creatures opposed to the orcs that lessened their power and helped then shape the world. Perhaps races never seen on the world could be very new there and they have established a foothold. So, if we follow the end of "4)" above, what if say a Titan opened a gateway and brought in its own followers. Titans in AD&D could have up to TWENTY psionic powers as could be had by Clerics (except Levitation?!); so it could easily possess Probability Travel so that it could continue to bring others to the orc world. I just see a group of Titans bringing many Greek-Like people to the Orc World and establishing City-States on Islands...
I see numerous possibilities for this world...and a Portal in the Forgotten Realms dropping a group of adventurers into the world with no immediate way to leave... |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2018 : 18:16:39
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The orcs (along with collective goblinkind) weren't placed on the Realms by the Creator races. So they could only have come from elsewhere.
The obvious questions are then "where is this place?" and "who were the Creator races there?". I stand by my previous answer, that the "homeworld" of the orcs is now a destroyed and defiled place, probably become merged within the essence of Acheron (on the Outer Planes), and their "Creator" was Gruumsh himself. Gruumsh arrived in the Realms from Acheron/Nishrek (along with the other surviving deities of the orc pantheon), at about the same time as Corellon arrived (along with his Seldarines) from Arvandor - the Realms mythologies explain that elves were formed from drops of Corellon's blood when he and Gruumsh battled for dominance, and they explain Gruumsh's method of claiming which parts of the world would be inhabited by orcs after all the other deities had already divided up the world for their own races (elves and dwarves and humans, etc). So, if both these tales are "true", then Gruumsh has been present in the Realms since before orcs, elves, or the other races walked the land ... and orcs were probably among these first races inhabiting the world. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 03:33:37
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I like your island idea, and I WOULD place elves on this world. However, I would place at least some elves in Faerun as having fled to Faerun FROM this world via portal. I'd make these islands the last bastions of elven freedom, and yes, they'd be forested.
As to other races, yes, lizard folk and firenewts. I'd also say throw in scorpion men, and maybe a tauric boar folk? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 03:59:36
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I like your island idea, and I WOULD place elves on this world. However, I would place at least some elves in Faerun as having fled to Faerun FROM this world via portal. I'd make these islands the last bastions of elven freedom, and yes, they'd be forested.
As to other races, yes, lizard folk and firenewts. I'd also say throw in scorpion men, and maybe a tauric boar folk?
Is there any history of Elves having dealings with Titans?
I had this flash of inspiration where the Elves on this world might live in an idyllic "Greek-Like" paradise (as Grey Elves) where they are "protected" by Titans.
It reminded me of the movie Lord of the Rings where the elves were tall and fair, but had a decidedly bronze age look to them.
EDIT: Titans (in AD&D) are Chaotic Good as are Elves...so that is what got me thinking about it. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 11 Jan 2018 04:00:13 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 13:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I like your island idea, and I WOULD place elves on this world. However, I would place at least some elves in Faerun as having fled to Faerun FROM this world via portal. I'd make these islands the last bastions of elven freedom, and yes, they'd be forested.
As to other races, yes, lizard folk and firenewts. I'd also say throw in scorpion men, and maybe a tauric boar folk?
Is there any history of Elves having dealings with Titans?
I had this flash of inspiration where the Elves on this world might live in an idyllic "Greek-Like" paradise (as Grey Elves) where they are "protected" by Titans.
It reminded me of the movie Lord of the Rings where the elves were tall and fair, but had a decidedly bronze age look to them.
EDIT: Titans (in AD&D) are Chaotic Good as are Elves...so that is what got me thinking about it.
Not that I know of, but I like the imagery. Having this world having giant/fey involvement could be interesting.... but specific giants... for instance, maybe some wood elves and forest giants work together. So different islands, different elves.
Oh, and those elves with the titans.... definitely do a "flying hunt" motif with elves on pegasi guarding it... maybe some elves on giant eagles. I'd also say those elves should be a mix of gold, moon, and star all living in harmony. Picturing harps and lutes... You could also include storm giants, both in the sea and in the air, and it would fit the motif. You could even include sea elves. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 16:33:19
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Is there any history of Elves having dealings with Titans?
I had this flash of inspiration where the Elves on this world might live in an idyllic "Greek-Like" paradise (as Grey Elves) where they are "protected" by Titans.
It reminded me of the movie Lord of the Rings where the elves were tall and fair, but had a decidedly bronze age look to them.
EDIT: Titans (in AD&D) are Chaotic Good as are Elves...so that is what got me thinking about it.
Not that I know of, but I like the imagery. Having this world having giant/fey involvement could be interesting.... but specific giants... for instance, maybe some wood elves and forest giants work together. So different islands, different elves.
Oh, and those elves with the titans.... definitely do a "flying hunt" motif with elves on pegasi guarding it... maybe some elves on giant eagles. I'd also say those elves should be a mix of gold, moon, and star all living in harmony. Picturing harps and lutes... You could also include storm giants, both in the sea and in the air, and it would fit the motif. You could even include sea elves.
I was thinking Pegasi too. Usually Griffons are associated with Grey Elves; but Pegasi for sure in a Greek style.
I thought about the Sea Elves being the "Marines" of the Elven Navy that kept the islands safe from invasion. Small groups on patrol in the water; while larger groups working in concert with ships in battle.
I thought about the orcs "working" with some giants...the giants being great towering brutes that serve as war machines for the orcs. Instead of Hill Giants or such, I was going to go with the rarely mentioned Mountain Giants (page 42 of the Fiend Folio) which would fit well with the mountainous motif I was thinking of for this world.
Something that JUST occurred to me as I was thinking about this all: the Elves could have Gated the Titans to help them due to the elves numbers being so heavily diminished and their nobles having been nearly exterminated in war against the hordes of orcs. The Titans then began to act as somewhat detached nobility for the elves...only guiding them in defense and otherwise leaving the elves to their own decisions. That would result in a rather loosely organized defensive structure where elven "city-states" that sat on the shores of islands existed.
The picture of the Titan on page 94 of the Monster Manual I is how I see them. Sitting in a great hall where they while away their days as revered defenders who accept occasional audiences. Acting more like benevolent seers/nobles who use their Psionic abilities to communicate via Telepathy to other Titans and then keeping all the city-states connected and their Probability Travel to go at need to the defense of other city-states with select heroes from among the population of their own city-state.
As for the Orcs again:
I picture them as inhabiting a limited number of domains now. Their empires mostly shattered due to their own faults. Because the resources of the lands are exhausted, they delved deep underground in their search for raw materials. They keep goblins as slave miners who are not allowed armor or weapons. The goblins have so long been slaves of the orcs that they know no other life.
I can see the orcs, at their height, possessing magic which they used to nearly destroy the elves. One thing I pictured was them trying to drain the seas that protected the elven islands; but failing completely and essentially only giving the elves LARGER islands and drying up much of their own lands instead.
This lowering of the seas actually created larger marshy areas too where the coasts receded into sea bottoms that became swampland, and then the Lizardfolk were forced from traditional homes into these new lands.
Where did all the water go? Another plane likely. Large gates created and sent into the sea where they sank and then large whirlpools formed above them and began draining the seas. The elves were finally able to stop the draining of course; but it has made the world much drier and caused expansion of desert areas. The short-sighted thinking of the orcs once again causing their own destruction despite their magical power.
Lots of ideas flowing...more later. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 17:04:18
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First off,talking about Titans makes me think of Attack on Titan, and although I love that anime (who wouldn't?), there really is no easy way to borrow from it.
Second, if there are 'Bullywugs', shouldn't there be 'friendlywugs'? 
(or would the opposite of that be 'Inclusivitywugs', which is a mouthful).
Asabi are another race you can use alongside firenewts. I like the idea of having nearly all of the 'lost kingdoms' be reptilian. Maybe have those mostly gone because of an ancient war with another group, a'la the Giants vs Dragons in most other settings? Like reptilians vs amphibians? That sort of thing? (or flyers could work, and say the flyers are all gone now - maybe stick a 'lost tribe' in a jungle somewhere). Hmmmmm... flying orcs... that could be a thing...
I would NOT put elves there (and probably not dwarves, gnomes, or halflings - I would replace ALL of those with goblinoids filling the same exact niches that the humankin races do). In fact, you could have the hobgoblins be just like elves, goblins be just like dwarves, kobolds be just like gnomes, etc. I guess Bugbears would be like the Orcs on a such a world (although it might be more fun to spin those like primitive elves, and use the hobgoblins like half-orcs; half-orc and half goblins, which is how I think that race originated).
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I do regret having mentioned the scro at all in this scroll, sorry.
The first rule of Scro club is we don't talk about Scro club.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 17:27:53 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 17:25:57
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Planet-wise (because I know a teensy-tiny bit about geography ), I love the idea the planet is not as conducive to life as an Earth-like world would be - it should be a world of harsh extremes, which would be an ideal planet for a race of not-Scro superior orcs. Perhaps a binary system (no-one really does those... too much work?), with the planet going into century-long climatic shifts - that sort of thing (100 year winters, etc.).
Volcanoes, extreme weather, entire seas that just disappear for decades at a time, jungles that completely burn-away (or dry up and get sand-blasted away), just to come back super-fast (ALL life, in fact, on such a world should be high-speed - things maturing at an incredibly rate... and I happen to know that would really work for you). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 17:26:44 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 17:26:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
First off,talking about Titans makes me think of Attack on Titan, and although I love that anime (who wouldn't?), there really is no easy way to borrow from it.
Second, if there are 'Bullywugs', shouldn't there be 'friendlywugs'?
(or would the opposite of that be 'Inclusivitywugs', which is a mouthful).
Asabi are another race you can use alongside firenewts. I like the idea of having nearly all of the 'lost kingdoms' be reptilian. Maybe have those mstly gone because of an ancient war with another group, a'la the Giants vs Dragons in ost other settings? Like reptilians vs amphibians? that sort of thing? (or flyers could work, and say the flyers are all gone now (maybe stick a 'lost tribe' in a jungle somewhere). Hmmmmm... flying orcs... that could be a thing...
I would NOT put elves there (and probably not dwarves, gnomes, or halflings - I would replace ALL of those with goblinoids filling the same exact niches that the humankin races do). In fact, you could have the hobgoblins be just like elves, goblins be just like dwarves, kobolds be just like gnomes, etc. I guess Bugbears would be like the Orcs on a such a world (although it might be more fun to spin those like primitive elves, and use the hobgoblins like half-orcs; half-orc and half goblins, which is how I think that race originated).
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I do regret having mentioned the scro at all in this scroll, sorry.
The first rule of Scro club is we don't talk about Scro club.
I've thought about not having elves...but what race could I use that is so diametrically opposed to orcs that are as beautiful as orcs are hideous? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 17:47:14
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On such a world, ORCS would be beautiful. They (and probably all the 'lesser' goblinoids) would look at them as the 'perfect race'.
In fact, maybe when they first encountered humans (who fought back much better than they anticipated), they named them something like 'soft orcs' in their own language, which would be a compliment, to their way of thinking.
For example, maybe their word for non-orcs is Thûl-Kra, meaning 'NOT Orc', and they'd use it the way we use the word 'animal'. However, humans might be referred to as Ba'Kra, meaning 'Soft* Orcs' which would be one of the nicest things they could say about someone (not orcish).
*'Soft' itself would take-on the full spectrum of meanings connected to that term, which would be 'cute, cuddly, emotional, etc, etc... anything that normally would be considered 'un-orcish'). They would cherish strength and hardness, which is why humans would confuse them ("How can such a soft race be so tough?") Their architecture would also reflect this, with harsh angles, rather then soft contours. Everything in such a culture should almost be a 'trial' of sorts, even walking down a hallway (NEVER smooth walls - always rough jagged surfaces - if you are clumsy enough to trip, or stupid enough to be intoxicated, and fall against the walls, other orcs would find it funny that you scraped your face off).
"Life is hard, so live it to the fullest, because at any moment Yurtrus can come for you." (and death by any means other than battle is dishonorable)
Come to think of it, you should use an extended version of an Orcish Pantheon, and get rid of any non-Orc deities (maybe the remaining reptilians have have some demi-powers left, struggling to survive in the Sphere). Strong/brutal/savage gods from other pantheons 'might' be acceptable, but they'd have an orcish aspect in that setting.
I would not replace the elves with another elf-like (pretty) race. Thats not flavorful - thats just 'more of the same'. The idea is to take this place in a completely different direction than other D&D worlds. The Klingon culture from Star Trek would probably be a great inspiration (tNG basically turned them into 'space orcs', right down to their look).
And I am really liking the idea of flying orcs - maybe Gruumsh made some sort of deal with Tiamat (she seems to like making deals), and there could be a group of 'blessed' half-dragons?
I want Batorcs! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 17:52:41 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 17:55:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Planet-wise (because I know a teensy-tiny bit about geography ), I love the idea the planet is not as conducive to life as an Earth-like world would be - it should be a world of harsh extremes, which would be an ideal planet for a race of not-Scro superior orcs. Perhaps a binary system (no-one really does those... too much work?), with the planet going into century-long climatic shifts - that sort of thing (100 year winters, etc.).
Volcanoes, extreme weather, entire seas that just disappear for decades at a time, jungles that completely burn-away (or dry up and get sand-blasted away), just to come back super-fast (ALL life, in fact, on such a world should be high-speed - things maturing at an incredibly rate... and I happen to know that would really work for you).
Instead of any sort of winter...instead have horribly hot "long summers" that happen when the second star comes closer for a while to the world.
The few seas (I don't picture many oceans surrounding land...but land surrounding a few seas instead) would recede quite a bit; perhaps not vanish.
Lizardfolk would be a prime example of a species that can survive in this sort of climate...and I'm probably going to go with the "fact" that reptile types were the First People of this world. Which is why the Firenewts are one of the surviving members of this original species. They are able to live very well in a harsh world that gets really damn hot at times.
quote:
These distant relatives of the lizard men live in sun-baked rocky hills, volcanic regions or any other locale which tends to be hot, dry and sometimes sulphurous, whether above or below ground...
I'll probably focus though on a "northern" area that still has more water than the equatorial areas. A place where the two stars wouldn't bake as badly...and so the orcs and other races are more dominant there; whereas the fiery creatures would dominate the equatorial lands. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 18:00:40
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Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder, of course.
If beauty is not superficial, if the standard of beauty is not form but is instead essence and function, then orcs are indeed beautiful creatures. Inhumanly efficient at what they are meant to do. Nobody likes orcs, even other orcs don't like orcs, but it cannot be denied that as a race they're damned good at what they do, they're everywhere, and once they've been installed they're nigh-impossible to remove - many have tried, few have succeeded.
Elves ... well elves might be pretty to look at. But when the measure of beauty becomes the substance instead of the cosmetic then it turns out some elves are sublime and heavenly, some elves are awesome and terrifying, and some are utterly repulsive and monstrous. And many must be quite ordinary. All regardless of their physical appearance.
Not saying that I think I'd ever fall in love with an orc or easily reject an elven temptress, just saying that "beauty" is too vague and too subjective to properly judge orcs. They are like a machine made to perform a task, simple and robust and efficient, elegant and beautiful and cleverly fashioned in their own way, the perfect instrument for the job. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Jan 2018 18:06:44 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 18:04:21
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One thing for sure I'm putting in this world is a dusty plain with a huge Adamantine Fortress protruding from it filled with Githzerai.
At LEAST one of their fortresses anyway, if not more. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 19:12:20
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So far I have the following places:
Orc Realms: small areas obviously dominated by the savage remnants of orcish empires. Based likely in resource rich areas (resources meaning iron primarily) that raid each other and other areas of non-orc dominated species. They subsist primarily on subterranean herds of Rothe that feed on fungal fields as well as eating their own slave stock when needed; but of course feast on fallen enemies too.
Island Realms: I'm undecided on what races will dominate these islands. I'd originally thought elves would be good; but now I'm leaning more toward idyllic "paradises" dominated by demon cults. Deceptively beautiful, they are ruled by single demons each (powerful unique "demons" that may simply be horrid monsters instead of demons) that are served by very evil mortals. What those mortals are, I haven't decided. I still like the idea of "Elves" but this could simply be a mask for horrible monsters. It is possible to trade with these places (as in visit briefly) but they have a fell reputation even among the orcs.
Rust Plains: a place dominated by monkish Githzerai who search the ruins of the world for artifacts. The plains would have purple worms and such monsters.
Empire of Fire: small inter-connected domains of the Firenewts. Each clan dominated by its own "King" which is a Lizard King (page 61 of the Fiend Folio, but with Firenewt Traits). Ultimately this "Empire" is ruled by some fire being. I don't want it to be a dragon, so I'm still thinking on this.
Qullan Jungles: a forested/jungle island that has come to be dominated by the Qullan (page 74 of the Fiend Folio) which are able to repel invasions of their land due to their "Chaos" aura.
"Empire" of Ruin: a ruined land where an empire of orcs once held sway. I think I'm going to make this the empire the Gray Orcs once held. When the hordes went to Faerun it was too weak to withstand its enemies who pressed it on all sides. In defiance, they tried to summon the Orc Gods; but they were no longer favored because of their failure in Faerun. Since the Orc Gods would not help, they instead summoned other powers. The result is a desolate waste of ruined cities inhabited by undead of the spectral/dark variety (shadows, wraiths, spectres, etc.) as well as beasts like death dogs, packs of rust monsters and insectoid creatures in the plains. The cities will be religious ruins where the High Orc culture entombed their Priests; so Mummies and such might be present with other undead as well.
The Icereach: a far north land of mountains dominated by clans of fierce Bugbear Barbarians.
The Dead Sea Lands: a horribly alkaline sea surrounded by orc-cities perched high up on the sides of cliffs that surround the sea. There are now dead islands in the center of the sea filled with ruined cities. Around the exterior the orcs live in greatly diminished numbers. In caves around the cliffsides are monsters in plenty that slither up to feed on the orcs when they can.
The Phantom Waste: a land dominated by the remnants of an orc city's "secret weapon" which were bound Phantom Stalkers (page 72 of the FF). The Phantom Stalkers can't leave because they are bound to Undead Orcs which summoned them. The Phantom Stalkers aren't the only creatures here; but they tend to be vicious after hundreds of years of "imprisonment" on the Prime. The Orcs which summoned them are likely residing as Mummies/Liches in the city at the center of the Waste.
The "Monsters" of the world will be based on orcs instead of humans. I don't see humans having ever been a "part" of the world I'm imagining. So none of the classic were-creatures or vampires and such.
Instead of Werewolf stories, I'd use Gibbering Mouthers in orcish "horror tales" told to orc children and so on. The worst stories would be of Horribly Pretties! Angels and the like would take the place of Demons.
Still working...
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 20:19:13
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| I can't recall any monster entries based on orcs affected by lycanthropy or vampirism ... maybe goblinoids are actually immune to these things? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 21:53:08
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The map I'm going to create will be based on a group of Untheric explorers who find an old Mulan map of the Orc World.
According to the early Mulan, the world is referenced as "House which is like a Mountain" or simply Ekur. The new explorers, who barely escape the world back to Faerun (haven't worked out how yet that they even got there or got back), bring with them a New map that they have compiled from their adventures and material they gathered from the place.
The Mulan map will be what the world looked like during the Orcgate Wars while the new Ekur will obviously be current year.
The world is obviously going to be very mountainous...so lots of volcanism. Water is not going to be a major feature; but I do plan to have at least two major bodies of water: one smaller that is alkaline in the extreme and the other a much larger sea with islands in it surrounded by land.
Animal life is going to be "dinosaur/lizard" centered...but leaning heavily on smaller dinosaurs/lizards and birds on land. Lots of other animals that are somewhat rare in standard D&D worlds might be more common here like:
Rust Monsters are a more common species in the plains (where they hide underground at night) where old battle-fields and debris is scattered as well as in the mountains where they scavenge in old mines.
"Herds" of Flightless Bird flocks (page 41 of the MM) are the typical grazers instead of mammals.
Instead of Horses there are Giant Striders (page 42 of the FF) used by the Firenewts mostly, while other races use Giant or Subterranean Lizards (page 61 of the MM) and/or a breed of Giant Arachnid (use stats for Giant Scorpion on page 85 of the MM, but with no stinger and Large Size).
Insects of all varieties will be more common, including giant varieties. With that come predators which prey on them like Ant Lions and such.
Fungal creatures would be more common too, and many creatures feed on mosses, algae and so on...with Myconids probably living in many cavern complexes near the surface.
In all, I think I may try to stay away from ANY sort of Mammal as native to the world. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 21:53:53
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In regard to the earlier mentions of elves... I'd recommend against having elves on an orc world.
One of the core things about the Realms is that there are always thousands more orcs, and that their population is such that they form huge hordes that sweep across the land, periodically. And elves are in decline, mainly because they reproduce so much more slowly than orcs.
So if a world is dominated by orcs, and has been for longer than a few centuries, then any elves are going to be in hiding, or living in nearly impregnable strongholds, or feeding the trees instead of living in them.
If you're going to give the orcs an enemy on this orc world, I think I'd go for kobolds. Orcs would have the advantage of numbers, but kobolds are some right sneaky gits, cunning trap-makers, and their warrens are generally inaccessible to larger races. And I believe that kobolds are fecund enough that while they'll never form very short hordes, they will be able to handle the losses of a constant war against orcs. Of all the D&D races, I think kobolds would be the best suited for prolonged warfare and survival on a orc world.
(This is, of course, assuming that it's an orc-dominated world, and that the potential enemy is not geographically separated from the orcs) |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Jan 2018 21:59:11 |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 22:00:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
If you're going to give the orcs an enemy on this orc world, I think I'd go for kobolds. Orcs would have the advantage of numbers, but kobolds are some right sneaky gits, cunning trap-makers, and their warrens are generally inaccessible to larger races. And I believe that kobolds are fecund enough that while they'll never form very short hordes, they will be able to handle the losses of a constant war against orcs. Of all the D&D races, I think kobolds would be the best suited for prolonged warfare and survival on a orc world.
Kobolds are a good idea...especially since they can easily go along with the "reptilian" ideas I have for the world. Instead of being mortal enemies though, I think they would have their times of relative "peace" which means the orcs are only trying to send groups of slavers against the Kobolds.
In turn, the Kobolds could now reside beneath the streets of many of the ruins of the Orcs.
For sure Kobolds are a good fit. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 22:18:30
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The long ago Dragon Mountain boxed set made me a fan of kobolds, whom I'd previously ignored. And then 3E made them a lot more interesting.  |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 22:41:39
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ORCS!
In an Orc World we have to have lots of types of orcs. Here we will have:
Gray Orcs: called "High Orcs" often, they are the previously dominant race of orc on Ekur, the Gray Orcs have fallen. While still religiously powerful, the Orc Gods no longer favor them so strongly and the Grays have lost the power to summon Avatars. They live within City-States where what land is usable is farmed by slaves under the whip of Gray Orc masters. The Priests of these orcs are still Kings and Nobles but they no longer have empires. Gruumsh and Ilneval are their main gods.
Nomadic Orcs: these orcs consider themselves "True" orcs and are barbaric to their core. They look at Gray Orcs as soft quite often. While they may often be found to be mercenaries of the Gray Orcs (serving for good steel), mostly they will be found as roaming nomadic clans warring against each other and anyone else in their way. Gruumsh and Bahgtru are their favored gods.
Black Orcs: these orcs prefer the darkness of the underworld. They are excellent miners and murderers in equal measure. Once the same as Gray Orcs, they broke off long ago and now follow infernal "gods" of the Abyss or Hells. They live in deep realms and only approach the surface world to trade their coal and iron to the Gray Orcs. The only Orc God they might hold in esteem is Shargaas; but just as often a Demon or Devil will be their favorite.
Wild Orcs: few in number, these orcs live in the horrid orc-eating jungles of Ekur. They are smaller than other orcs; but very stealthy users of poisons and other toxins. The most feral of all orcs on Ekur, other orcs despise them as cowards because they attack from hiding with poisoned darts and barbs. They make sacrifice to Yurtrus to stave off death; but see him also as a Cannibal God that gives life through death.
Great Orcs: called Orogs in other worlds, the Great Orcs are few on Ekur. Most died in the "Demon God Wars" and now only small numbers of them exist as a whole. Most serve as scattered mercenary bands living within Gray Orc society. It has been centuries since a large enough group of them survived long enough to forge a stable realm. In ancient times the Orog Emperor was called Torazan and he was the one that instigated the Demon God Wars against the Gray Orcs and the Orcish Pantheon. Today's Orogs tend to call on Ilneval for fear of reprisal if they called on their old god.
Mongrelmen: never recognized as orcs by other orcs, the Mongrelmen of Ekur consider themselves Orcish. They are the result of long centuries of orcs breeding with anything and everything. Mongrelmen can only hope to be slaves (or worse) in orc society however. They are often sacrifices in Gray Orc cities, meals to other tribes, and only rarely free at all when mixing with orcs. Most free Mongrelmen live in the ruins of ancient orc cities as scavengers. Ironically, some few Mongrelmen have become famed Seers who posses lost knowledge and so are sought out by Orcish Adventurers. No particular god cares for the Mongrelmen.
Goblins: the "Goblins" of Ekur are no longer truly goblin. For ages they have been "breed out" by inbreeding with runtish orcs until almost everyone simply calls a Goblin an "Orcling" today. Goblins exist almost solely as a slave-caste in Gray Orc realms. They are non-combatants most often; used as slave-farmers, street-sweeps, sacrifices and even as cattle at times. There are some few "free" Goblins; but they are seen as simply ravenous bands of bandits that are usually exterminated by Orcish Armies.
I have a couple more ideas brewing...anyone else have a suggestion?
EDIT: No winged Orcs MT |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 11 Jan 2018 22:45:50 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2018 : 23:54:01
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I'm not a big fan of them having turned Kobolds into reptiles - I preferred them being dog-like goblins back in the day (closer to folklore - really they were gnomes/dwarves). However, at this point, its simpler just to 'go with the flow' then try to correct stuff that's been in place nearly 20 years now.
Of course, you could always say they were a gnome-like goblinoid that got a does of 'draconic' somewhere along the way (which blends the old lore into the new/3e stuff).
Nomadic Orcs. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 11 Jan 2018 23:54:54 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 00:03:13
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Hob-Goblin means 'great goblin', which is why I see them as Golbin-orc hybrids (though they are their own race now).
Bugbears always confused me - they certainly don't look like other goblinoids. Quoggoth-Orc hybrids? (except, I have some dim recollection of those being an actual thing in something official). Thye'd make good 'mountain barbarians' on an all-Orc world. They must have come from a cold clime, for them to have fur like that.
Are there 'sea orcs'? I know we have both water trolls and water ogres. I could swear we also had water orcs. Which reminds me - Ogres and trolls would work on your world. Ogres were considered goblinoids, not giants, in OD&D.
You should use the Sharakim from Races of Destiny (they're better than silly ol' Scro anyway).
There's also a type of Orc thats a half-gorilla (the Losel) - make a good jungle critter on an Orc world (have them against the much smarter and devious Tasloi). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 00:08:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm not a big fan of them having turned Kobolds into reptiles - I preferred them being dog-like goblins back in the day (closer to folklore - really they were gnomes/dwarves). However, at this point, its simpler just to 'go with the flow' then try to correct stuff that's been in place nearly 20 years now.
Of course, you could always say they were a gnome-like goblinoid that got a does of 'draconic' somewhere along the way (which blends the old lore into the new/3e stuff).
Nomadic Orcs.
I planned on making Ekur's Kobolds originally slaves brought to Ekur by "Sauroids" who turned them into Demi-Sauroids.
So the original Kobolds looked like this:
Original Kobolds
While the new Kobolds look like this:
Now Kobolds
Since even in AD&D Kobolds laid eggs...it makes sense that they are of some race that uses eggs!
As for the Nomadic Orcs, I like the pic you posted...almost exactly what I have in mind; but darker with fewer bright colors:
Ekur Nomadic Orc
Gives a reason for them having their Scimitars again, since they will be living in arid conditions like deserts and such.
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 00:13:38
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New Detail:
The Orcworld of Ekur will not be a planet; but a moon.
Circling a gigantic gas giant at the closest edge of the Goldilocks Zone, the world of Ekur will be one of the moons of "Gruumsh's Eye" which is a massive gas giant with a titanic red storm swirling on the surface.
Will both explain why Ekur is so hot and why it has so much volcanic activity...gravitational pull and all.
Originally being a heavily watered world it was a volcanic jungle world where Sauroids lived for ages. Its seas also held intelligent life.
When the Sauroids made the mistake of bringing orcs to Ekur, it led to their downfall.
More to come...
EDIT: I needed a reason why these orcs were so much more religious than others...well, a huge Ball in the Sky that looks like your God's Eye could well do the trick!
SECOND EDIT: As Ekur turns and its dark side faces "Gruumsh's Eye" the shadow of the moon Ekur would cast its shadow into the center of the Red Storm...making it truly look like an eye. I haven't figured out the rotation of the planet vs. the rotation of the moon both around the planet and its own day/night cycle to see how often this "Grand Conjunction" would take place yet. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 12 Jan 2018 04:02:21 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 00:43:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
First off,talking about Titans makes me think of Attack on Titan, and although I love that anime (who wouldn't?), there really is no easy way to borrow from it.
Second, if there are 'Bullywugs', shouldn't there be 'friendlywugs'?
(or would the opposite of that be 'Inclusivitywugs', which is a mouthful).
Asabi are another race you can use alongside firenewts. I like the idea of having nearly all of the 'lost kingdoms' be reptilian. Maybe have those mostly gone because of an ancient war with another group, a'la the Giants vs Dragons in most other settings? Like reptilians vs amphibians? That sort of thing? (or flyers could work, and say the flyers are all gone now - maybe stick a 'lost tribe' in a jungle somewhere). Hmmmmm... flying orcs... that could be a thing...
I would NOT put elves there (and probably not dwarves, gnomes, or halflings - I would replace ALL of those with goblinoids filling the same exact niches that the humankin races do). In fact, you could have the hobgoblins be just like elves, goblins be just like dwarves, kobolds be just like gnomes, etc. I guess Bugbears would be like the Orcs on a such a world (although it might be more fun to spin those like primitive elves, and use the hobgoblins like half-orcs; half-orc and half goblins, which is how I think that race originated).
I have to disagree on some of that. If we link some of these orcgates to HOW some elves came to Toril (and following THEM, how some ORCS came to Toril), then it solves some things from the past (especially since the orcs followed the elves by only a short span according to what we were discussing earlier). So, I'd definitely have the elves there. It helps build on the orc/elf hatred. In fact... what if the elves of THIS world cast a High Magic spell that made them specifically sterile when it came to orcs, and that's why elves and orcs typically can't breed (now if someone is a half-elf, marries an elf, and the child of that union mates with an orc.... maybe).
Now, goblinoid races? No. You had a good idea with sticking to these off the side races that we don't typically see elsewhere. Stay away from hobgoblins, goblins, trolls, gnolls, bugbears, etc.... I'd say stick with ogres and giants though.
Also, stay away from the typical goodly demihuman races (dwarves, gnomes, halflings) and don't have humans on this world either (and thus also no half-elves or half-orcs). Orogs (ogre/orc hybrids) might work, as might tanarukk.
Dragonborn might work on this world though (and picturing Dragonborn acting like a superior life form and enslaving lizard folk). Also, to take it a step further, there was also a race known as dragonkin in the 3e monsters of faerun which had wings. These should be two separate cultures, and they should have some distinct differences in how they look. From our perspective it would be like avariels and humans.
kobolds definitely work.
Crocodilian humanoids would make for another good entry.
Crabmen as well as Tortles would make for a good group along the shorelines.
Finally, some kind of shapechanger race... but not like shifters, hengeyokai, etc... I'm thinking like Ghaunadans... an intelligent ooze that can take on a humanoid form. I wouldn't necessarily have it be "ghaunadans" per se, but you get the picture. It could even be a "sand people" where they're a shapechanging people who are elemental in nature. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 12 Jan 2018 01:13:15 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 01:08:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
In regard to the earlier mentions of elves... I'd recommend against having elves on an orc world.
One of the core things about the Realms is that there are always thousands more orcs, and that their population is such that they form huge hordes that sweep across the land, periodically. And elves are in decline, mainly because they reproduce so much more slowly than orcs.
So if a world is dominated by orcs, and has been for longer than a few centuries, then any elves are going to be in hiding, or living in nearly impregnable strongholds, or feeding the trees instead of living in them.
If you're going to give the orcs an enemy on this orc world, I think I'd go for kobolds. Orcs would have the advantage of numbers, but kobolds are some right sneaky gits, cunning trap-makers, and their warrens are generally inaccessible to larger races. And I believe that kobolds are fecund enough that while they'll never form very short hordes, they will be able to handle the losses of a constant war against orcs. Of all the D&D races, I think kobolds would be the best suited for prolonged warfare and survival on a orc world.
(This is, of course, assuming that it's an orc-dominated world, and that the potential enemy is not geographically separated from the orcs)
Yeah, but he's got the right idea with putting the remaining elves on islands. The orcs don't SEE them. They pretty much forget about them in their everyday lives. In fact, elves might be like the boogeyman that they tell tales of to their children, such that when they do see an elf.... the instant reaction for the orcs are "OMG OMG OMG it's one of those things Grandma warned me about! Kill it before it kills us all!". Meanwhile, the orcs are short on wood, and even if they had it, they're not skilled shipwrights, so their ships are meant to hug the coastline.
The elves however won't have forgotten the orcs. Every few decades, the elves probably carefully prepare an assault on the orc communities, and they probably set it up to make one orc community blame another. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 02:25:25
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An all-orc world is a fine place to find the ancient ruins of extinct elven, dwarven, or human civilizations. Perhaps eagerly sought out by orcs hoping to find magic, metal, weapons, and war machines of great power. Not at all interested in academic pursuits, recovering and recording lost history, etc ... only seeking vast mythical caches of weaponry which is capable of destroying whole armies or cities or even gods with nothing more than a casual gesture, the sort of thing any mighty civilization would automatically bury in the sands, according to backward orcish (or human) thinking.
Dwarven ruins make a fine backdrop for any setting, anyhow. Filled with marvels of engineering built Tonka Tough to last through ages. Even without any dwarves around. Ruins in the Realms are often inhabited by dead, undead, or living guardians; it's reasonable to expect the same on other worlds. Liches, baelnorns, banshees, ghosts, wizards and warriors (and clumsy adventurers) held in suspended animation, golems and automata, ageless servants of all types - but very few of these indeed would be orcs. And how would a world of orcs respond to an ancient lich or dragon awakened from the forgotten past?
All orcs of every tribe (except perhaps the mongrelmen and the "orcling" goblinoids) would consider themselves the only "true" orcs. But the question does arise on an all-orc world ... who and what exactly could the orcs have indiscriminately bred with to produce orc-blooded mongrelmen? There must be at least remnant populations of non-orc races around, at least in "recent" history. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 02:38:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
An all-orc world is a fine place to find the ancient ruins of extinct elven, dwarven, or human civilizations. Perhaps eagerly sought out by orcs hoping to find magic, metal, weapons, and war machines of great power. Not at all interested in academic pursuits, recovering and recording lost history, etc ... only seeking vast mythical caches of weaponry which is capable of destroying whole armies or cities or even gods with nothing more than a casual gesture, the sort of thing any mighty civilization would automatically bury in the sands, according to backward orcish (or human) thinking.
Dwarven ruins make a fine backdrop for any setting, anyhow. Filled with marvels of engineering built Tonka Tough to last through ages. Even without any dwarves around. Ruins in the Realms are often inhabited by dead, undead, or living guardians; it's reasonable to expect the same on other worlds. Liches, baelnorns, banshees, ghosts, wizards and warriors (and clumsy adventurers) held in suspended animation, golems and automata, ageless servants of all types - but very few of these indeed would be orcs. And how would a world of orcs respond to an ancient lich or dragon awakened from the forgotten past?
All orcs of every tribe (except perhaps the mongrelmen and the "orcling" goblinoids) would consider themselves the only "true" orcs. But the question does arise on an all-orc world ... who and what exactly could the orcs have indiscriminately bred with to produce orc-blooded mongrelmen? There must be at least remnant populations of non-orc races around, at least in "recent" history.
There are still going to be Lizardfolk, Bullywugs, Giants (probably few "true" giants though...), Aarakocra, Vulchlings, Boggles, Cyclopskin, Yuan-ti, Grippli and others. I've thought about Duergar in the deep Underdark, Pech, Dark Creepers, and others there too.
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 03:23:34
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So, I was just looking through all the races that I listed or that I see listed:
orcs,ogres, giants, elves, orogs, tanarukk - live birth
lizard folk, firenewts, dragonborn, dragonkin, kobold, crocodilians, crabmen, tortles, aarakocra, vulchlings, grippli, yuan-ti - eggs
It made me think that these brutish mammalian humanoids (i.e. orc and ogre kin) might be known for taking eggs and eating them. There might be some kind of "bad name" related to egg eaters or some such. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2018 : 03:46:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
You should use the Sharakim from Races of Destiny (they're better than silly ol' Scro anyway).
Keep up the heretical remarks, and I'll sic a swarm of Miniature Giant Space Hamsters on you! |
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The Orc World
