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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Jun 2004 : 23:01:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Why nothing from Deserts of Desolation (think I got it right), after all it describes one of the most hostile areas known in Faerun, and yes I am counting the underdark etc.
I only had room to touch on Raurin in passing, a paragraph at best. Perhaps WotC could turn it into a web enhancement.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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Hymn
Senior Scribe
Sweden
514 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jun 2004 : 00:21:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Hymn
Why nothing from Deserts of Desolation (think I got it right), after all it describes one of the most hostile areas known in Faerun, and yes I am counting the underdark etc.
quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
I only had room to touch on Raurin in passing, a paragraph at best. Perhaps WotC could turn it into a web enhancement.
Thomas
Oh, I would really love to see that happen. A man can dream, a man can dream ... |
Sauro moki kara ochiro - Even monkeys falls from trees.
The path that leads to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant - Miyamoto Musashi |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jun 2004 : 14:43:24
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| Does Shining Stouth have stats for the characters from Elaine Cs Councilors and Kings Trilogy? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2004 : 15:16:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Does Shining Stouth have stats for the characters from Elaine Cs Councilors and Kings Trilogy?
Sorry it took me a while to reply, but I've been out of town.
No, I didn't include any of the book characters. I don't know if Elaine ever did a write-up for them or not, but I wouldn't want to step on her toes with something like that.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2004 : 13:55:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Although very little has been detailed about the possible inclusion of this PrC, I can see that it could provide some very intriguing NPC alternatives...
That particular PrC was picked up from a Wizards web article Elaine wrote a couple of years ago that tied into her Counselors & Kings trilogy. I left it pretty much intact (though the developers and editors might have further tinkered with it).
Thomas
Actually, that article was written by Thomas Costa. He graciously sent it to me for perusal before submitting it to the WotC website.
For the record, I would advise that you completely ignore the article on Crinti history I wrote for the WotC website. This article was apparently removed from the website archives, and I assume that WotC has had second thoughts about the content. (I emailed several people at WotC and asked about this, but never received a response. That's usually a pretty good indicator.)
But this is for the best. I have a mild case of dyslexia and occasionally will transpose numbers and directions. That resulted in some continuity problems, as has been pointed out. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2004 : 14:00:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Does Shining Stouth have stats for the characters from Elaine Cs Councilors and Kings Trilogy?
Sorry it took me a while to reply, but I've been out of town.
No, I didn't include any of the book characters. I don't know if Elaine ever did a write-up for them or not, but I wouldn't want to step on her toes with something like that.
Thanks, Thomas. For the record, I have not written stats for these characters. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2004 : 16:56:22
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
For the record, I would advise that you completely ignore the article on Crinti history I wrote for the WotC website. This article was apparently removed from the website archives, and I assume that WotC has had second thoughts about the content. (I emailed several people at WotC and asked about this, but never received a response. That's usually a pretty good indicator.)
But this is for the best. I have a mild case of dyslexia and occasionally will transpose numbers and directions. That resulted in some continuity problems, as has been pointed out.
Thanks Elaine. :) I have a question though, do you mind if I quote you on this and add it my FAQ over on the FR WOTC boards? This, every so often, keeps being brought up and so it would help to have the writers stance on that article.... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2004 : 18:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
For the record, I would advise that you completely ignore the article on Crinti history I wrote for the WotC website. This article was apparently removed from the website archives, and I assume that WotC has had second thoughts about the content. (I emailed several people at WotC and asked about this, but never received a response. That's usually a pretty good indicator.)
But this is for the best. I have a mild case of dyslexia and occasionally will transpose numbers and directions. That resulted in some continuity problems, as has been pointed out.
Thanks Elaine. :) I have a question though, do you mind if I quote you on this and add it my FAQ over on the FR WOTC boards? This, every so often, keeps being brought up and so it would help to have the writers stance on that article....
Feel free. You can also pass along my personal opinion--which, to the best of my knowledge, has NOT been verified by an official WotC decision--that this article should be considered non-canon. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2004 : 20:26:32
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Feel free. You can also pass along my personal opinion--which, to the best of my knowledge, has NOT been verified by an official WotC decision--that this article should be considered non-canon.
Thanks Elaine. :) We miss you over there BTW. Or some of us do at least. But I didn't just want to quote you without asking either. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2004 : 16:01:45
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Actually, that article was written by Thomas Costa. He graciously sent it to me for perusal before submitting it to the WotC website.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I think, now that you mention it, that Mr. Costa's name was at the top of the article. Thomas, my apologies for slighting you, sir.
quote:
For the record, I would advise that you completely ignore the article on Crinti history I wrote for the WotC website. This article was apparently removed from the website archives, and I assume that WotC has had second thoughts about the content. (I emailed several people at WotC and asked about this, but never received a response. That's usually a pretty good indicator.)
I actually got a hold of it and used it in my development. I did have to noodge some of the dates a bit, but I made it all work pretty well with only minor tinkering, and I think it made the region more interesting in the end. So even if the original article has vanished, it lives in in the supplement (unless the developers changed anything, which I doubt, because the editor and I went over some of that stuff right toward the end of the process, so I believe it's intact).
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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jameslt0
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 15:26:56
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| I saw a pic on the wizard.com site for excerpt to Shining South Sourcebook. They have picture of warriors on horseback attacking people. Are they Drow? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36871 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 16:39:24
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quote:
Originally posted by jameslt0
I saw a pic on the wizard.com site for excerpt to Shining South Sourcebook. They have picture of warriors on horseback attacking people. Are they Drow?
Those are Crinti. The Crinti are a race of half-drow that rule Dambrath, which is one of Halruaa's neighbor's. They're not an overly friendly bunch. |
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Thomas M. Reid
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
334 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 16:46:44
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quote:
Originally posted by jameslt0
I saw a pic on the wizard.com site for excerpt to Shining South Sourcebook. They have picture of warriors on horseback attacking people. Are they Drow?
Actually, they are Crinti, or half-drow. They hail from Dambrath and often raid into Halruaa's Nath valley. That's the depiction you see in the excerpt art.
Thomas |
"A knight is not truly virtuous, only truly resolved to be so."
www.thomasmreid.com |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2004 : 17:11:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Thomas M. Reid
Actually, they are Crinti, or half-drow. They hail from Dambrath and often raid into Halruaa's Nath valley. That's the depiction you see in the excerpt art.
Thomas
Here's a direct link to the portion of the excerpt with the outstanding art featuring the Crinti. These half-drow are also found in Elaine Cunningham's Counselors & Kings series. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 03:48:11
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| RPG Shop is now listing the product as available for purchase. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36871 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 05:58:12
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
RPG Shop is now listing the product as available for purchase.
I get paid next week... Hopefully my FLGS will have the book by then! I will be more than happy to toss this other campaign book aside and return to the Realms with a product on Halruaa!  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 12:54:34
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I'm quite giddy about this book, even more so after reading this:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20041008news
Hopefully this will be out in time for GENCON next weekend! ::drool:: |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36871 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2004 : 15:51:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I'm quite giddy about this book, even more so after reading this:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/news/20041008news
Hopefully this will be out in time for GENCON next weekend! ::drool::
Oooh... Oh man, this is enough to get me drooling, too! I knew that Halruaa and Dambrath would be covered, and I was looking forward to reading more about them. But the Great Rift, too? Excellent!
The thri-kreen don't really do anything for me, but I've always liked the loxo. So that's something else to look forward to.
Seeing a write-up on the laraken will be cool, and it's really nice to see the rattelyr get a more official write-up! I remember the introduction of the rattelyr in the FR comic "Everybody wants to rule the Realms". If you've not read that one, the high elf priest of Labelas, Vartain Hai Sylvar, was giving a tour of TSR headquarters. During a slide show of the company picnic (mmm, Kyri in a bikini), a rattelyr showed up, and everyone attacked it. Jardwym of Force Grey, in ranger gear and a lab coat, immediately showed up and stopped the fight, complaining that the group was attacking a critter that the paint wasn't dry yet and they still had to write the Ecology section of its Monstrous Compendium entry. 
(This also further validates the comics being canon! )
The Astral Inn? That sounds intriguing!
I am so seriously looking forward to this book, almost as much as I'm looking forward to the Waterdeep sourcebook. I get paid on Thursday, and I will be bugging Kent to see if this book is in that afternoon, before I go to work.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2004 : 08:24:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Astral Inn? That sounds intriguing!
Indeed it does, and, if I right, it is quite possibly the expansion of an older idea from 2e...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 11 Oct 2004 08:25:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36871 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2004 : 09:45:49
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Astral Inn? That sounds intriguing!
Indeed it does, and, if I right, it is quite possibly the expansion of an older idea from 2e...
And what idea would that be? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2004 : 15:04:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The Astral Inn? That sounds intriguing!
Indeed it does, and, if I right, it is quite possibly the expansion of an older idea from 2e...
And what idea would that be?
While it was officially detailed in an old PS product, the Astral Inn idea was connected with the Realms. The original write-up mentions a specific area of the Shining South as I recall. In fact, I believe it also operates as a lower-class establishment for those who cannot afford the hefty prices asked by those running the World Serpent Inn.
I'll have to dig my tomes out to be sure though...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 17:12:33
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I'm sorry for Penny Williams to have to write such crap. Let's be clear: this piece is quite explicitly promoting and pandering to powergamers and munchkins -- 'buy our new book for races, feats, prestige classes, spells, and magic items that will make your character more powerful (though technically your DM must approve all of them)'. In a list of ten, nary a mention of the player wanting information on where the character lives.
So much is obvious, but let's not take it for granted. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 17:39:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I'm sorry for Penny Williams to have to write such crap. Let's be clear: this piece is quite explicitly promoting and pandering to powergamers and munchkins -- 'buy our new book for races, feats, prestige classes, spells, and magic items that will make your character more powerful (though technically your DM must approve all of them)'. In a list of ten, nary a mention of the player wanting information on where the character lives.
So much is obvious, but let's not take it for granted.
Sadly this is the way things are today. WotC (Hasbro), believe that crunch is what people want. Something must have happened at some point where munchkinism was shouted about louder than fluff. I think Drizzt novels had a lot to do with this also and "drizzt is kewl" style fans aided towards the powergaming idea that Hasbro believe we all want. The days of lore are long gone  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 18:05:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I'm sorry for Penny Williams to have to write such crap. Let's be clear: this piece is quite explicitly promoting and pandering to powergamers and munchkins -- 'buy our new book for races, feats, prestige classes, spells, and magic items that will make your character more powerful (though technically your DM must approve all of them)'. In a list of ten, nary a mention of the player wanting information on where the character lives.
So much is obvious, but let's not take it for granted.
Don't hold back Faraer. How do you really feel? 
Sadly, I agree. The promotional articles do appeal to the "power gamers." But, and this is purely personal speculation, I can't blame WOTC here. They know that the devoted Realms fans interested in lore will buy the product. It's the non-Realms DM they feel must be "encouraged" to purchase the tome. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 18:11:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Rad
I think Drizzt novels had a lot to do with this also and "drizzt is kewl" style fans aided towards the powergaming idea that Hasbro believe we all want. The days of lore are long gone
Well, let's not judge this tome only by this article. Serpent Kingdoms was filled with a good amount of lore. I'll be curious if SS continues the trend.
And I'm not even going to touch the "Drizzt fans" being responsible. I will say I believe it has more perhaps to do with the computer gamers these days that want to build power characters no matter the format. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 18:24:34
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| I think Serpent Kingdoms has shown that WotC has realized (i.e. whoever realized it is getting their way) that Realms books need more than trade dress and a dash of 'flavor' to distinguish themselves from core-D&D books; and I believe George Krashos that more good stuff is to come. But this web piece was just so transparent; perhaps some WotC designers are themselves powergamers, but I can't imagine that others aren't embarrassed to be involved in such exploitative marketing to the most juvenile impulses of the audience. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36871 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2004 : 19:18:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
I think Serpent Kingdoms has shown that WotC has realized (i.e. whoever realized it is getting their way) that Realms books need more than trade dress and a dash of 'flavor' to distinguish themselves from core-D&D books; and I believe George Krashos that more good stuff is to come.
I'll agree with this much. Serpent Kingdoms was rich enough in lore to make me want to actually go buy Shining South from my FLGS, rather than snake a good deal on eBay, like I usually do. |
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Arnwyn
Acolyte
35 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 00:12:45
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And, indeed, this book is easily as good as Serpent Kingdoms.
I've only managed to skim through my copy, but it is easily one of the best 3.x FR products yet. And, as I suspected, the geography chapters are by far the best part of this book. Details of locations (both city and countryside) that have never been detailed before, even in the old 2e FR16 Shining South accessory. Good stuff! (And, yes, there are regional maps before each chapter in the geography sections - unlike Serpent Kingdoms.)
I, too, laughed at the ad copy burbled over at WotC - trying to focus on feats, PrCs, blah blah blah. Thankfully, though, what's really inside this book shines right past the superfluous rules material.
(Not to say that the rules material in Shining South is bad - I like it when PrCs, in particular, fit in with the world... and that's what they do here. The PrCs in Shining South make those in Serpent Kingdoms look like a poorly done splatbook.)
Shining South = highly recommended. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36871 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2004 : 00:38:03
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Awesome! Thanks for letting us know it's out and worth the wait. 
Now the only question is whether I'll have the time to swing by the Wall (my FLGS) and pick up that book on Thursday. |
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Topic |
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The Shining South Sourcebook
