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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Aug 2017 : 01:00:05
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Hey, when was the landrise created? I am kind of wondering if when the cavern of Bhaerynden collapsed on the drow culture of Telantiwar and created the Great Rift.... maybe it was then? Maybe there was some kind of earthquake and the Shaar suddenly split along the landrise?
Is there anywhere that contradicts this? I note that the map of the crown wars in GHotR doesn't show it being there then.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2017 : 01:34:27
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| AFAIK, there reason for why (or when) the Landrise exists has never come up. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2017 : 03:18:23
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Maybe it was created by whatever slammed into Halruaa (the whole country is one massive impact crater)
You can really see it best on the map that came with Hordes of Dragonspear. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Aug 2017 03:19:14 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2017 : 04:21:02
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| Did something hit Halruaa?? I presume this has to be before the first settlers came to the region, then. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2017 : 12:55:39
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| Hmmm, that would make good sense actually with the mountains being the outer edges driven upwards like they are . It would have had to have happened before the crown wars at least because the mountains are there in the GHotR, but the landrise is not. Unless that map is just messed up. Or it could have been that the impact created a fault line that finally broke centuries later. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2017 : 17:33:55
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NONE of the 'historic' maps in the GHotR are accurate - all they did was add some trees here and there, which is patently ridiculous. Many of the shapes of the seas were very different (if they existed at all). I find them laughable, actually. When you read through the older 2e sources, like PftM, SotM, or PftF you'll note Ed is constantly mentioning islands, 'realms', and peninsulas that were all over the place (many along the Sword Coast) which simply are NOT THERE anymore. Things like, "sank beneath the waves", etc. Another good one he uses (not as frequently) is "where such-&-such swamp now sits", or "where the {whatever} desert is today".
I have evidence the Sword Coast changed dramatically just in the past 500 years or so, and yet, the cartographers continue to draw the coastlines on those 'historic maps' precisely as they are today. Hell, they didn't even account for Ajhuutal, which DEFINITELY was above sea level during the Crown Wars (its part of Calimshan's history, during the Dgen Wars). Sadly, the authors are just as guilty - if not more-so, than the artists - just read Ring of Winter, which takes place (in part) in thousand year old Cormyr, and talks about Cormyr as if its today, settlements, Purple Dragons, and all. 
Anyhow, I am trying to post a map Snippet to my Photobucket account, but PB sucks big time these days - they make you jump through hoops to post anything now, and its slower than molasses. Anyone know of a better hosting site? Tinypics is just as bad, if not worse.
Finally got it - Old Halruaa......... Edited with better link
Took like 20 tries - they kept telling me 'Markustay' was not the account name of the account 'Markustay'. Swear to god. Idiots must be managing that site. Anyhow, IF you can see it, note not only the crater-lake - nearly identical to the one in returned abeir which ED ALSO CREATED - and the surrounding circular mountain chain (and mountains DO NOT form that way naturally - and Ed is smart enough to know that - thats a crater, a damn BIG one!) Also note the string of islands in a semi-circular pattern as well (a continuation of that same crater-rim below sea level).
Now, bearing in mind mountain chains don't 'make turns' (only in fantasy), note how many semi-circular chains we have in FR. The first one I noticed was the Tunlands - its super-obvious on older maps. However, aside from Halruaa, there are a few other nations that are also humongous craters, like Semphar... and Cormyr. Note the lake in the middle of all those 'enclosing' mountain-ranges. Also note the very odd shape of Cormyr's lake. 
This world came under a severe meteoric bombardment, and if magic wasn't involved, there is no way it could have survived even one of those mega-hits. Something was under Halruaa - thats why it blew-up when it became connected to Abeir.
The Starmounts are also all that remains of something that fell to Toril. If you read some of the original descriptions for the region, you'll see how its a shallow-trajectory impact (it came in at a very low angle). That sometimes leads to a crustal-shift, BTW (not that baby Ed would have known anything about 'crustal shifts' - the theories around those are fairly new). There is a 'gouge' taken out of the land there, and the mountains were 'pushed up' in front of it. When you draw-out all the hills and mountains and leave-off the forests, you realize how much is hidden beneath. And if you want more proof the Starmounts are 'meteoric' in nature, in Realms of the Elves (in the very 1st story, IIRC), they mention how the 'Starsilver in the Starmounts has nearly run-out'. They were mining Starsilver in the Starmounts pre-Crown Wars, and thats 'meteoric silver'. There is NO DOUBT.
Faerūn is literally littered with the fallout from the Dawnwar.
EDIT:
And thanks to this thread making me put a bunch of my thoughts down all at once, I checked a few things - the 'Endless Caverns' are the 'gouge', or rather, the ending of that. I've known that for awhile now. BUuuuuut... I just realized the 'unicorn Run' IS THE PATH THE OBJECT CAME IN AT. 
Coupled with some other things I just found-out yesterday related to Lurue ('The Unicorn') and Selūne, it all makes perfect sense now. The 'big secret' Ed has always said was "staring everyone right in the face".  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Aug 2017 03:55:26 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2017 : 19:48:23
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The secret of the moon, you mean?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Anyhow, I am trying to post a map Snippet to my Photobucket account, but PB sucks big time these days - they make you jump through hoops to post anything now, and its slower than molasses. Anyone know of a better hosting site? Tinypics is just as bad, if not worse.
Finally got it - Old Halruaa
Now, bearing in mind mountain chains don't 'make turns' (only in fantasy), note how many semi-circular chains we have in FR. The first one I noticed was the Tunlands - its super-obvious on older maps. However, aside from Halruaa, there are a few other nations that are also humongous craters, like Semphar... and Cormyr. Note the lake in the middle of all those 'enclosing' mountain-ranges. Also note the very odd shape of Cormyr's lake.
This world came under a severe meteoric bombardment, and if magic wasn't involved, there is no way it could have survived even one of those mega-hits. Something was under Halruaa - thats why it blew-up when it became connected to Abeir.
Imgur, so far, is a good site. If you can re-upload the map there, I would be grateful (as photoucket is evulz and I cannot see your linked image---)
As for the Spellplague... mmm, interesting. The FRCG hints that the holocaust in Halrua was "as if every spell held there had loosed its power simultaneously."
If your theory is true, whatever was below Halruaa had to be a very powerful source of magic for the explosion it caused ("Halruaa was annihilated in a sorcerous blast so mighty that windows in Waterdeep rattled"). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 26 Aug 2017 19:49:51 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2017 : 07:41:13
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I'll try Imgur tomorrow. Today was a big 'research day'. I had to do paperwork, rather than work directly on maps, which is NO FUN.
I'm tired of trying to find the exact same information every time I work on a new map, so I'm building a geography data base. I've had one (two, actually - the original is long gone) for awhile now, but its only stuff that was 'hard to find' (mentioned in only one or two sources, and never on any maps). Thats the easy part for me, because I have most of that done. It was placing all the 'well known' (already on maps) sites that takes the time, because I have to read the same damned entries over and over. I'm thinking I really need to do it as a data base, though, and not just a text document, so I can search by region, or just type (settlement, River, road, etc, etc).
I wish I could figure-out how to create a program that would show a scalable (zoomify) map, and you could just click on stuff and info boxes would pop-up. I recall playing a play-by-post game that used something like that just a year ago. The map had 'pins' you could click on - anyone know what I am talking about? I don't think that would be powerful enough for what I want to do, though. I need to go back to school for webpage design - I could probably do something like that using FLASH. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Aug 2017 15:40:08 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2017 : 13:56:16
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Several mechanics could have been the cause of the Landrise.
Sudden and massive vulcanic activity is highly likely, as the nearby Lake of Steam region is known for its steaming fumaroles and vulcanos and I suspect the Firesteap mountains the Landrise ends in to be the result of many vulcanic flows as well. Gradual lift by repeated sudden seismic activity can be the cause, perhaps triggered by the uplift of two connected vulcanic mountain chains. The flow of magma from the surrounding vulcanos into basin areas of the Landrise i.e. the lower parts of the Western Shaar could result in even more landfall.
The East Shaar and the West Shaar might be two landplates, with the Landrise at their faultline and the eastern one rising each year, but the stable geology of the rest of the area suggests more subtle forces are at work, or that the fault line itself is relatively young. I don't know if there is precedent for tectonic plates breaking because of impact forces, but I can imagine it might happen quite often during earthquakes. Grumbar might have had a hand in shaking up and shaping Faeruns surface if we don't discount the primordial forces playing around on Toril.
I suspect the Underdark might hold a clue, as does the Underchasm the 4e campaign setting introduced. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2017 : 14:47:44
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Yeah, I can't see the photobucket piece you gave either.
I also like the idea that perhaps the crow wars map isn't "complete" and therefore just doesn't show the landrise. Perhaps its because the landrise rose at two times. First being part of an impact in Halruaa that pushed up the mountains, that possibly cracked the land of the shaar into two halves. But possibly initially this rise between east and west was less pronounced (maybe it was only like 40 feet or so instead of 200 - 400 feet). Also, maybe it was less a cliff and more a "hill". So, for mapmakers maybe at the time of the crown wars maybe it was just thought of as a minor ridge. This would mean that this impact happened probably sometime between that map of the crown wars in -11,700 DR to when the Days of Thunder map was -31,500 DR. So, what we are hypothesizing is that sometime in that 20,000 year span SOMETHING crashed into Merrouroboros down in the south, creating the mountains surrounding Halruaa and possibly kick starting the separation of Merrobouros at least in that area.
When did the "dragon laser" shoot at the king killer comet and hit something?
Also, is it just me, or would it be neat if Nimbral were some portion of Leira and this is where the Leirans on the moon and Nimbral have some link? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2017 : 15:17:49
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Halruaa, from the 1e Hordes of Dragonspear supplement.
Turns out I had an Imgur account. Looking at the two map snippets I posted there, I don't even recall when I opened that. Just glad it was easy - I'll be using Imgur for this sort of thing from now on.
All the 1e maps clearly showed the craters better. The 'prettier' the maps got, the more they became obscured. You could still see them okay in 2e, but 3e warped everything so badly I think it 'damaged' whatever metaplot Ed had going on.
Because Toril isn't nearly as old as Earth, its had far less erosion going on, so the craters are easier to see. We have no real way of telling how many craters Earth may have had because of that - we only can still see evidence of the largest and most recent. The other side of that is that Toril seems to have had as many 'impacts' as Earth, and yet, is is a far younger world (like a million times younger LOL). That would indicate an extreme cosmological event, like a planet being destroyed (or in the case of FR, D&D, and fantasy - a titanic struggle between gods).
Now, we KNOW at least one 'planetary body' was destroyed, because we see evidence of such an event in differing mythologies. This goes back to the Godwar (or Dawnwar, and I think the two are the same thing, or at least, FR's War of Light & Darkness was at least a 'local conflict' in a much larger war). We also have the craters (and I am 100% positive those are craters, and not just because roundish mountain chains don't form naturally; we have the one in Abeir - which Ed also designed - that the lore says is a crater, from a 'fallen primordial'), which shows some type of 'planetary bombardment' occurring all around the same time period.
Now, I don't know if those are all from primordials, or the primordials are (were?) still slumbering beneath the earth (you have to wonder why the Underdark races never ran into any of those). We know at least one was - Telos - was trapped beneath Vassa (and come to think of it, Vassa also looks like a crater, albeit an irregularly-shaped one... another shallow-trajectory? I thought Novularond in the Great Glacier was a massive celestial object, but I hadn't considered its point of impact may have been Vassa. I tend NOT to think of Vassa in these terms because I know Ed didn't have Vassa - it was shoe-horned in later.
I have some other thoughts on these matters, but I'll put them in a different thread, because they have more to do with the mythological end of things. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Aug 2017 15:39:19 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2017 : 16:20:19
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| I guess they did encounter primordials before, just that they didn't knew those thinsg were primordials. One example is Maegera in Gauntglrym. We can even imagine that Underdark primordials are like the titans of Dragon Age (you may be walking inside one of those, and you aren't even aware of it). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2017 : 18:55:47
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Okay, so maybe they weren't trapped beneath Toril the whole time. Re-reading the Vassa and Warlock Knight stuff in the 4e FRCG (one of the few parts of that book I enjoyed). It specifically states that Telos came slamming into Toril when the Spellplague struck. Now, we know (sort of) how the Spellplague - and later, the Sundering - worked. Stuff got 'swapped' from their same place on the other world. This could work for us.
Dawnwar/WoL&D happens. Gods and primordials 'die', and at least some of them land on Abeir-Toril (and one of them might even BE Toril!) Ao separates them (and BTW, Ed actually mentions the 'Overgod' concept - not the word itself - in his old Gods article in Dragon magazine, which predates the publication of The Realms by at least 5 years!), and in so doing, even removes the comatose bodies on/in the planet (or rather, they just stay in that spot but are shifted to the newly formed world, Abeir). So primordials (and perhaps Estelar) may have landed in Halruaa, The Tunlands, Cormyr, Semphar, the Raurin, The High Forest, Vassa, etc, etc, but they would not have been there after the worlds were separated. They were in/on the Abeiran equivalent of those places. Then when the Spellplague happened (and perhaps at other times when their was 'magical chaos'), they were 'flung' back to their spots on the other world. Thus, Telos didn't so much 'fall from the sky', but rather, came flying through a wormhole like a hunk of iron being attracted by an electromagnet. You see Jumanji (the original)? Like how everything got sucked back into the game at the end.
However, it is unlikely WotC plans to remove Telos back to Abeir (we don't really know yet), so maybe a few other primordials got hurled into FR (like the one that caused the massive explosion of Halruaa), and now they, too, may still be in FR... or a fragment, anyway. Maybe they've awoken (back on Abeir), and there might be at least one that some group has managed to 'chain up' somewhere in FR. That would be INSANE.
Maybe I need to read Gauntlgrym - is that primordial still there in 5e? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Aug 2017 23:42:54 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 00:34:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, so maybe they weren't trapped beneath Toril the whole time. Re-reading the Vassa and Warlock Knight stuff in the 4e FRCG (one of the few parts of that book I enjoyed). It specifically states that Telos came slamming into Toril when the Spellplague struck. Now, we know (sort of) how the Spellplague - and later, the Sundering - worked. Stuff got 'swapped' from their same place on the other world. This could work for us.
Dawnwar/WoL&D happens. Gods and primordials 'die', and at least some of them land on Abeir-Toril (and one of them might even BE Toril!) Ao separates them (and BTW, Ed actually mentions the 'Overgod' concept - not the word itself - in his old Gods article in Dragon magazine, which predates the publication of The Realms by at least 5 years!), and in so doing, even removes the comatose bodies on/in the planet (or rather, they just stay in that spot but are shifted to the newly formed world, Abeir). So primordials (and perhaps Estelar) may have landed in Halruaa, The Tunlands, Cormyr, Semphar, the Raurin, The High Forest, Vassa, etc, etc, but they would not have been there after the worlds were separated. They were in/on the Abeiran equivalent of those places. Then when the Spellplague happened (and perhaps at other times when their was 'magical chaos'), they were 'flung' back to their spots on the other world. thus, telos didn't so much 'fall from the sky', but rather, came flying through a wormhole like a hunk of iron being attracted by an electromagnet. You see Jumanji (the original)? Like how everything got sucked back into the game at the end.
However, it is unlikely WotC plans to remove Telos back to Abeir (we don't really know yet), so maybe a few other primordials got hurled into FR (like the one that caused the massive explosion of Halruaa), and now they, too, may still be in FR... or a fragment, anyway. Maybe they've awoken (back on Abeir), and there might be at least one that some group has managed to 'chain up' somewhere in FR. That would be INSANE.
Maybe I need to read Gauntlgrym - is that primordial still there in 5e?
I was about to correct you on Telos, but it seems you caught yourself.
One thing I'm noting is that much of what came from Abeir isn't necessarily going away. For instance, Telos... I don't see him going away. Akanul, staying. Tymanther... made smaller, but the true impact of that is negligible, its staying but with new enemies. Laerakond MAY go back, but truly, I'm fine with it shifting locations and staying (one of the things we had discussed was that its "ties" to the fake Evermeet and then the return of the real Evermeet may have somehow flung it elsewhere in the world). So, in the end, we have places returning, but the Abeiran influence may be staying. We may have to play with the local politics based on what returns though (and what's in those returning places, because it likely isn't the same as when it left). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 03:32:16
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I guess Vaasa remained in 5e as it was in 4e. The Warlock Knights are even mentioned in the SCAG.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Maybe I need to read Gauntlgrym - is that primordial still there in 5e?
You don't need to read the novel if you only want info about the primordial. There is an article in Dungeon 183 about the place, including info of Maegera.
And yes, he is still in the Realms in 5e. In fact, he plays a role in Storm King's Thunder (dunno about it, as I don't have that adventure).
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 03:51:59
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Well, I have Storm king's Thunder, so between the two of us we know everything.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 04:04:44
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey, when was the landrise created? I am kind of wondering if when the cavern of Bhaerynden collapsed on the drow culture of Telantiwar and created the Great Rift.... maybe it was then?Is there anywhere that contradicts this? I note that the map of the crown wars in GHotR doesn't show it being there then.
Possibly. The Great Rift is far too large for a city blowing up. Even a nuke.
Now, if there were pre-existing tensions in the big tectonic plate below and perhaps sedimentary layers above as well, and then a huge explosion happened right in a weakened (natural caves + excavated even more) area, and it triggered an earthquake, while starting the crack that could develop across the already strained plate... this sounds about right.
Out-of-Universe reason, of course, is a posteriori explanation for "why the Great Rift is not the main sinkhole for the Eastern AND Western Shaar" is necessary - for this, it should be on a hard and generally risen part of the land.
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Several mechanics could have been the cause of the Landrise.
Sudden and massive vulcanic activity is highly likely, as the nearby Lake of Steam region is known for its steaming fumaroles and vulcanos and I suspect the Firesteap mountains the Landrise ends in to be the result of many vulcanic flows as well.
Gradual lift by repeated sudden seismic activity can be the cause, perhaps triggered by the uplift of two connected vulcanic mountain chains. The flow of magma from the surrounding vulcanos into basin areas of the Landrise i.e. the lower parts of the Western Shaar could result in even more landfall.
Sounds about right. Though in which order it happened (and where Telantiwar kaboom fits into this) is another question...
To think of it, sudden release of tension can easily cause even more cracks. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 13:17:39
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Yeah, I think I will stick with the concept that it occurred when the collapse of Telantiwar/Bhaerynden happened. I do like the idea that the landrise was a fault line though that had already cracked and been under tension for a long time. So, I'm picturing the land along the landrise tilts upward in the east and down in the west. This causes earthquakes and the collapse on the drow city/ creation of the great rift. Meanwhile, a tunnel that previously went at about a 10 degree angle downwards from Telantiwar instead becomes a 5 degree angle downward and becomes the source of the river shaar that runs under the eastern shaar and exiting out of the newly tilted landrise edge. Eventually after 8 thousand or so years, this river forms a small gorge (maybe ~5-10 miles long?).
This also makes me wonder if there isn't some secondary tilt in the eastern shaar along the edges of the great rift. The idea I'm thinking here would be that the southern and eastern sides of the great rift might be higher than the northern and western sides. Given that if the sudden tilting along the landrise caused some tension, the crust may have shifted.... and it also fits that things "flow" towards the north and west in the great rift. All of these shifts would be relatively hard to detect, but it could explain run off in the eastern shaar possibly flowing towards the great rift, and eventually out the river shaar. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2017 : 18:25:53
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The Great Rift WAS on an elevated piece of land - practically the entirety of the Eastern Shaar. In fact, going by that river (discussed elsewhere in regards to Pelvuria), the bottom of the Great rift (pre-4e) was level with the lower portion of the Shar to the west.
Now, what that means is that it isn't so much a 'sinkhole', as it is the only piece of stable geography in the immediate vicinity. I didn't go down... everything else came up. A more natural (and I am no scientist, so if I get this completely wrong, my apologies) reason is that that region is on bedrock, whereas the surrounding region is just 'soil', which suffered a tremendous upheaval for whatever reason - possibly a sudden influx of water (like what happened as of 4e - trillions of gallons of water pouring into vast underground caverns would change a LOT of stuff - if it hits a thermal volcanic environment - and we do have volcanoes nearby - it could have built up massive pressure, literally 'blowing the lid off' the one stable spot in the region).
Of course, in something else I wrote, I blame the collapse on the Dark Elves being stupid (hubris) about how they were building in the cavern. Tell me you can't see this scenario happening:
Male Drow Engineer: "But Matron Mother, if we cut out all the columns, we'd lose support. It can't be done!"
Matron Mother Inbredia: "So you are telling me you are unwilling to follow my explicit instructions?"
Engineer: "Not at all your eminence, I am just stating that it would not be a good idea..."
Matron Mother: "So now you are calling me stupid?! Cut off his head, and then have those ugly columns cut out! They're blocking my lovely view of the fetid swamp!"
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Aug 2017 23:02:25 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 15:53:56
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| Sounds legit... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 21:38:24
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Decided to follow this thread when I saw what THO posted  . |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 23:25:11
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Decided to follow this thread when I saw what THO posted .
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2017 : 23:49:17
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AHEM...
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
And I'd just like to amplify what I said above: Markustay has spotted a lot of the impact craters that pockmark the landscapes of Toril (Halruaa, the Tunlands, Cormyr, etc.) Every assertion he makes in the Landrise thread sleyvas started is correct.
As for the root question of that thread, hopefully I can nudge Ed into an answer, in the fullness of time...
love to all,
THO
And YES, absolutely this means I will never let any of you live this moment down. 
There are times in this life - rare ones, for me - when you deserve to 'strut like a peacock'. And tomorrow is my birthday, so thank you Ed and THO, for probably giving me the best birthday present - that I haven't spent the last 12 years or so staring at these maps and seeing them tell me a story all their own, and I wasn't crazy.
CHEERS |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 00:58:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
AHEM...
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
And I'd just like to amplify what I said above: Markustay has spotted a lot of the impact craters that pockmark the landscapes of Toril (Halruaa, the Tunlands, Cormyr, etc.) Every assertion he makes in the Landrise thread sleyvas started is correct.
As for the root question of that thread, hopefully I can nudge Ed into an answer, in the fullness of time...
love to all,
THO
And YES, absolutely this means I will never let any of you live this moment down.
There are times in this life - rare ones, for me - when you deserve to 'strut like a peacock'. And tomorrow is my birthday, so thank you Ed and THO, for probably giving me the best birthday present - that I haven't spent the last 12 years or so staring at these maps and seeing them tell me a story all their own, and I wasn't crazy.
CHEERS
Hmmm, makes me wonder about the "artifact" beneath Thay and the rising of the Priador. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 07:00:26
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Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 09:05:21
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| A primordial trying to free himself from its prison, most likely (?) |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 30 Aug 2017 09:05:54 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 10:39:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well.
Perhaps the ruined and twisted remains of a vast Ba'etith, multi-levelled settlement ...
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 13:01:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well.
Unless the first and second escarpment of Thay was originally both high up there maybe and the "thing that slams into future Amruthar" actually caused the lower part of the country to collapse and form the 3 tiers of escarpments? Hell, maybe the Sunrise mountains to its west were previously just hills and when the second escarpment was formed they essentially became mountains?
Also, for those who don't know the reference we're talking about, this is where it comes from. In no other product is there a reference to this (that I know of anyway), so it was only "created" AFTER it was broken as a mystery to be explored.
From 2e Forgotten Realms Adventures, pg 127
Prior to the Time of Troubles, the Red Wizards wielded greater magical power than they do now. This was due in part to a magical artifact operating within the depths of Amruthar that extended power
to those pledged to the Red Wizards (this artifact became just one more pawn in the massive human chess games engaged in by the Zulkirs and Tharchions). During the magical chaos of the Godswar the device
was either deactivated, stolen, or destroyed; in any event, its benefits to the Red Wizards were lost. The Red Wizards in the post-Avatar Realms are treated as normal mages with no special powers (or
specialist mages if they belong to a particular school). This sudden reduction in power to mere human levels has badly rattled the rulership of Thay, but has also led them to redouble their devotion to
wheeling, dealing, scheming, and plotting. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11825 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 13:04:48
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Thay is a tough one - its like an 'inverse crater'. I actually toyed with the idea (for about 2 seconds) that something hit the planet from the other side. LOL
But if these... whatever... 'swell' for some reason, that explains the Landrise AND Thay.
And lets not forget there is most certainly something alive, sentient, and GROWING beneath the High Forest as well.
Perhaps the ruined and twisted remains of a vast Ba'etith, multi-levelled settlement ...
-- George Krashos
Yep, there's definitely SOMETHING to do with the old Sarrukh there. Wonder if whatever may have crashed here was intentionally to ruin their culture? Wonder if this group had something to do with the artifact going quiet following the ToT? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2017 : 13:34:40
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I would posit there was something like a proto-mythallar there, and that was what added the Thayans pre-ToT... Or maybe not a mythallar as such, but something that could be utilized in a similar fashion.
It could be something that fell from the sky, and the Ba'etith built a huge complex there to study/utilize this thing. Originally a small outpost on the edge of an impact crate, it grew into a large city, with the Landrise eventually being raised to contain and conceal both city and fallen object.
And this artifact could have even been what drew the pre-Thayans there. Perhaps Thayd wasn't a human, but was actually a sarrukh in disguise, and he wanted the Red Wizards there specifically because of this artifact.
Of course, when the ToT happened, some of the sarrukh that had acted as sleeping guardians woke up, realized their plateau was now infested with those annoying red-clad humans, all drawing magic from a sarrukh artifact, and decided they no longer wanted to share...
Ooh, or maybe the artifact is a fallen deity. The Landrise was raised to contain this former power... And when the ToT happened, the last remnants of godhood held by this divine prisoner were stripped away; this weakened the bindings and the former deity managed to escape. The former deity could have run afoul of and been slain by another avatar, or the former deity could have pulled a Waukeen, stepping into the planes and leave the Realms forever. |
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When was the landrise created?
