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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 06:47:08
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| Hmmm I actually thought we where due for a Dragon this week, perhaps theyve run out of Wyrms of the north articles |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 07:04:54
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Dargoth, the original Wyrms of the North series of articles only ran until Dragon magazine #258. Voaraghamanthar, otherwise commonly referred to as "the Black Death", was the last article written.
I'd already spoke about this in another scroll, where other scribes had expressed their hopes that all of the articles would be soon brought together into a PDF for download. Or maybe, Ed and Sean intend to generate some new dragons for the column, in an attempt to keep it going.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 09:13:50
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Oh Great Sage, the steel dragon Zundaerazylym doesn't think much of you forgetting about her. Watch out the next time you visit Neverwinter ...
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 10:12:28
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| I didnt notice you where a fellow Australian George! |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 12:03:38
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Oh Great Sage, the steel dragon Zundaerazylym doesn't think much of you forgetting about her. Watch out the next time you visit Neverwinter ...
-- George Krashos
Thanks George...
I couldn't be exactly sure whether it was issue #258, or #259. I have the actual articles from the magazine, but I just didn't feel like digging them out to check.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 12:24:36
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| I knew there was one more, as that particular article is the only one from that series that I have in print-what with it being the first issue of Dragon I ever bought and all...Zundaerazylym is likely my favorite from that group, anyway... |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2004 : 16:22:25
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Mark me down as one who hopes that Ed keeps The Wyrms of the North thread going.Especially with Richards trilogy coming out this month,and the rest of it coming out in the next few years.
I don't know.I really didn't like this Moon Doors of Silverymoon. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2004 : 16:48:05
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Yes, I'll second that. It's got too much similarity with "cat doors" of the present day. Not as much originality as Ed normally churns out... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2004 : 16:52:38
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quote:
Originally posted by VEDSICA
I don't know.I really didn't like this Moon Doors of Silverymoon.
Agreed. I didn't find this as interesting as some other articles by Ed Greenwood. Still, I'll take his stuff any day over the vast majority of others that contribute online articles. |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2004 : 18:00:21
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| Well I didnt want to be the first to say it (about "cat flaps" ) but I found the article a bit tongue-in-cheek. It was all very nice but not terribly useful to know. Im sure more will come of it in the following articles though. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2004 : 23:20:42
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While I agree with the general opinion presented in this scroll in regards to the content of the article, it's still nice to read some extra material about Silverymoon. It's always been one of my favorite Realms locales, although, unfortunately, I've never had the opportunity to make effective use of the area in a campaign...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 02:39:36
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| Sirius that's the only reason I still go back there(still angry over the novels forum wipeout).I like Ed's stuff.Just some of it is very uninteresting.No Offense!!!! |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 06:39:30
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Well, scribes, if I was Ed I'd tear my beard out reading some posters tearing up each new series of Realmslore columns just on the basis of the first one. Folks were trashing the Alustriel's Consort series on the Realms list because they thought Ed had descended into soft porn over the very idea expressed in the first column. As far as I can recall, this is a four-parter, and these ARE supposed to be "lore add-ons," some big and important and others very small details. . . so why not wait and see before you trash Ed for 'lack of creativity.' After all, he DID create Silverymoon, WITH moon doors, before 1978, before any of you had a chance to judge his creativity at all...
THO |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 06:48:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, scribes, if I was Ed I'd tear my beard out reading some posters tearing up each new series of Realmslore columns just on the basis of the first one. Folks were trashing the Alustriel's Consort series on the Realms list because they thought Ed had descended into soft porn over the very idea expressed in the first column. As far as I can recall, this is a four-parter, and these ARE supposed to be "lore add-ons," some big and important and others very small details. . . so why not wait and see before you trash Ed for 'lack of creativity.' After all, he DID create Silverymoon, WITH moon doors, before 1978, before any of you had a chance to judge his creativity at all...
THO
Admittedly, Lady Hooded One, it's not off to an exciting start. However, I am withholding comment on the overall arc until the third part, at least. I have confidence in Ed to make it more interesting -- after all, the fourth Larlake post was the really intriguing one! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 07:01:25
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| I have to disagree with the others. I happened to like the article. :) But you can't please every one. A lot of people didn't like the Broad Sheet articles either, even though I loved them. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 07:05:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, scribes, if I was Ed I'd tear my beard out reading some posters tearing up each new series of Realmslore columns just on the basis of the first one. Folks were trashing the Alustriel's Consort series on the Realms list because they thought Ed had descended into soft porn over the very idea expressed in the first column. As far as I can recall, this is a four-parter, and these ARE supposed to be "lore add-ons," some big and important and others very small details. . . so why not wait and see before you trash Ed for 'lack of creativity.' After all, he DID create Silverymoon, WITH moon doors, before 1978, before any of you had a chance to judge his creativity at all...
THO
As I recall Lady Hooded One, none of the scribes who have posted in this scroll have judged Mr. Greenwood to have any 'lack of creativity.' Now granted, Shadowlord said something about originality, but that really doesn't have much relevance since, as you say, Mr. Greenwood DID create Silverymoon.
We all know better, here at Candlekeep. We all know that, whatever Mr. Greenwood writes, will be flavorful, well-balanced, and above all, interesting. We are not out to trash his efforts, merely understand his great creativity when it comes to Realmslore.
I hope that Mr. Greenwood has not taken offense to some of the poorly worded comments in this scroll...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 08:41:20
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quote:
Originally posted by kuje31
I have to disagree with the others. I happened to like the article. :) But you can't please every one. A lot of people didn't like the Broad Sheet articles either, even though I loved them. :)
I have to agree. While "cat flaps" (as Rad dubbed them) may not seem to be all that thrilling, it is very useful information should burglary come into play in a Silverymoon campaign.
I can just picture a team of halfling burglars putting these moon doors to very good use.
Sarta |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 16:21:50
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Ed and I discussed the Realmslore columns the last time I visited him, and he told me that Julia Martin (who is his good friend and computer guru, and whom he respects as an editor very much) is his editor for these columns, and chooses topics from lists of ideas Ed submits to her. Almost all topics will be addressed in 4 or 8 part series (a very few will be 2-parters, a VERY few might reach longer), and they will be "all over the map" in terms of importance and scope, from coverage of entire thus-far-neglected countries to small details of architecture and local custom. Julia turns some of the columns over to WotC rules designers to rule-check (I believe Skip Williams is overseeing the Moon Doors series, but I may be mis-recalling details from many chats).
My point was simply that, as a player whose character learned about moon doors to her cost years back, moon doors have been around for a l-o-o-ong time (and so presenting them now says nothing about how inspired Ed was, this week when you're seeing them; these columns were written a year ago, BTW), that Ed doesn't get to decide on his own what he writes about, and that it's unfair to judge any of the series on the first column alone. Speculate, yes, give one's personal opinions on the topic, yes, but to try to judge Ed's originality or creativity on the basis of a single column, when the column length is set (and, in my opinion, way too short; those who recall Ed's My Slice of Silverymoon two-parter can probably tell at a glance that he wrote it as a single piece, and it got chopped in half according to WotC needs) by others and the topic is drafted as a multi-parter, is just plain wrong. Give him until part two for REAL speculation, and part three for the judgements (a la Larlake).
And remember: what bores you might really turn the crank of the next player or DM, and the Realms has survived in print and become as colourful and popular as it is because Ed is very careful to cater to all gaming styles and tastes.
End of unladylike rant...oh, forgot: I'm no lady. :}
THO |
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VEDSICA
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 17:47:22
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| In my post I wasn't trying to bash Ed's creativity.IMHO I think he is brilliant.To come up with all this stuff is unbelievable.Just that sometimes he's not going to tickle everyones fanny,so to speak with some of his lore.That in no way,shape,or form diminishes his creativity prowess.It just didn't move me as it did kuje. |
LIFE,BIRTH,BLOOD,DOOM---THE HOLE IN THE GROUND IS COMING ROUND SOON----BLS |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 17:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Well, scribes, if I was Ed I'd tear my beard out reading some posters tearing up each new series of Realmslore columns just on the basis of the first one.
Are you referring to this thread for the "tearing up" comments? Because if so, please point out the posts that you think contained "tearing up" comments.
quote:
so why not wait and see before you trash Ed for 'lack of creativity.'
THO
Okay, where is his creativity trashed? The harshest comment I see calls on a lack of originality, not a lack of creativity. Even then, I think the poster was polite and respectful.
But, for a hypothetical sake, if after all four parts, this poster or other feels the same way, do we then have your permission to express any negative comments? |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 17:51:17
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I hope that Mr. Greenwood has not taken offense to some of the poorly worded comments in this scroll...
Where are there any poorly worded comments? If Shadowlord's comments are poorly worded, please show me how he could have expressed his opinion, which is allowed to my knowledge, differently?
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 17:52:40
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
And remember: what bores you might really turn the crank of the next player or DM, and the Realms has survived in print and become as colourful and popular as it is because Ed is very careful to cater to all gaming styles and tastes.
Exactly, but those people aren't being attacked or criticized for their comments. So either agree to like something or shut up? Is that what you are stating? |
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Alaundo
Head Moderator
United Kingdom
5695 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 18:55:36
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Well met
Hmmmm, lets try not to misread pennings herein and get too heated. I'm sure a lot written here has been misunderstood, and i'm sure, Hooded One, that certainly nobody has intended to say any bad word against Ed. Merely that maybe the first article of this particular Realmslore column in not of use to them in particular. As you mentioned previously, it IS the first installment and I expect it will likely be expanded upon and possibly eventually please Scribes who were not immediately grabbed by the first part.
That said, please take no offence, nor Ed, if not everyone found this particular snippet of Realmslore 100% useful.  We all highly value your presence here and indeed that of Ed's constant reponses and flow of Realmslore.   |
Alaundo
Candlekeep Forums Head Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
An Introduction to Candlekeep - by Ed Greenwood
The Candlekeep Compendium - Tomes of Realmslore penned by Scribes of Candlekeep
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 21:06:00
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Gosh, no, SiriusBlack. I doubt this or any other forum can be of much use to anyone if only rah-rah positive viewpoints can be expressed. I know Ed values the Realms-List, the WotC boards, Candlekeep, and the SFWA forums (I’m not sure if he ever reads any others), plus the informal private e-mail round-robins he maintains with WotC staffers, Eric and Krash and the other original ‘Monks of Candlekeep,’ and we players primarily for helpful crit that allow him to pinpoint when things weren’t expressed clearly enough, or too much of this and too little of that was covered, and so on. Like everyone else, he’s happy when someone likes his work, and very pleased when he knows he’s been helpful to a friend – but after all these years, and knowing the man personally, I very much doubt he feels much need for having his head patted regularly.
Nor do * I * expect to be pleased or not pleased by what I read here, or have scribes post or phrase comments on that basis, nor do I want or expect to have any measure of approval over them.
Nor was I reacting to any less-than-positive viewpoints. I was reacting to a posted opinion about Ed’s originality because (and only because) I believe not enough of the Moon Doors series has yet been web-published for any valid opinion to be formed (about Ed’s originality, not about Moon Doors or anything else), and because I think scribes posting here should be sufficiently familiar with the Realmslore web column format by now to KNOW that we haven’t seen enough yet (Larlake being my stated example).
In my real-world, security-related work, my colleagues and your Hooded correspondent can speculate away like mad (in private, and between ourselves ONLY) about the possible motives, thinking, mental state, and intentions of someone, but it is literally a criminal act for any of us to state our opinions publicly (i.e. in a report) about such things without supportive evidence. Please note that I’m NOT suggesting Candlekeep should be run on the same lines or held to the same standards, but I do believe there’s a good reason why such rules and guidelines exist in some situations and organizations: unsupported speculation usually accomplishes more harm (even unintentionally) than it does anything else.
By all means react negatively to Moon Doors once you’ve seen it all, or most of it. However, before anyone tries “mind-reading” Ed from long-range, why not simply use me to ask him directly? I know he won’t get huffy (he saves that for tax officials :}), even if someone asks him point-blank: 'That sucked; what were you THINKING?'
I’ve read many of your posts here, SiriusBlack (and, if I’m not mistaken, back on the WotC boards, too), and would (as dispassionately as I can manage, stepping back into real-world op mode) judge your contributions to converse as very positive, over the years. I’d not want either of us to be muzzled or feel the need to self-censor.
I just think one installment of a multiple column is too early to mind-read Ed’s performance or intentions. Its TOPIC is fair game at all times, in my view.
Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I simply commented that if I was Ed, I’d be upset if the initial column of every new Realmslore topic was greeted with instant judgements (good or bad) on Ed – especially when, as I posted, he doesn’t get to choose topics freely, and wrote these pieces a year ago.
BTW, I’ve posted his oaths of Tempus worshippers answer in the Questions for Ed thread over in Novels, for those who’ve been waiting for it for a week-plus, now. He’s been deep in the collaborative novel with Elaine, and currently has a house full of visiting family and is probably spending hours washing dishes.:}
THO
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2004 : 17:54:06
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Very well said, The Hooded One.
I saw that a lot on the WotC boards: no clear distinctions between author and his/her writings, or posters who seem able to 'know' all sorts of things about a writer's mind from the writings.
I don't think anyone meant that here, but I agree: too early to tell anything from one column. Wonder why WotC chops them so short? |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2004 : 02:33:40
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I apologize for my earlier comment. When I said "Not as much originality," I was thinking more along the lines of "I can't find a use for this right now." It was around 11 PM when I posted, and I was extremely tired. Please excuse my mis-writings, as I tend to say the exact opposite of what I mean and/or talk of things that have absolutly nothing to do with the topic at hand when I become tired (as those who know me well can attest to)...  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
Edited by - Shadowlord on 14 Apr 2004 02:38:31 |
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Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2004 : 02:48:12
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The second part to this new 'Realmslore' column has now been uploaded.
You can view it here.
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"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe
USA
804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2004 : 14:53:39
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Hoo-boy! Traps, of course, but that messages thing completely changes how I think of "daily life" in Silverymoon---as well as giving me umpteen ideas of how to trick PCs into wild goose chases, send them into ambushes...oh yeah.
See, Shadowlord? I knew Ed'd come through. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2004 : 20:03:24
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| Of course. Wizards of the Coast just insists upon splitting the articles up, so as to prolongue waiting, and disappoint fans... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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New Realmslore - Moon Doors of Silverymoon
