| Author |
 Topic  |
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 15:25:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
So, anyone want a free Mike Schley map of Chult, very large and made for this adventure?
Got it! Now I'm just waiting for the book to get here. 
I looked at D&D Beyond's digital offering for the adventure and I'm stoked.
On Beyond, you don't have to buy the whole tome, they've broken it down to where you can just purchase an individual monster or NPC stat block, or magic item. While it doesn't let you preview those individual stats, it gives a nice idea of what exactly is going to be in the crunchy bits.
Can't wait to see how they stat Artus Cimber and Dragonbait.
Dragonbait will be in Chult? I mean, I can see the saurials there, just hadn't noted anything about it.
Yep! Scroll down to the Monster Section. He's there.
<rant on>
why the hell does every GD site require you to create a new ID. I was interested for a minute.... why can't they just let you look at things as a guest... I swear things are getting too stupid. Just not going to do it. Guess I'll wait for the arrival of the book.
<rant off>
sorry, just had to say it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
 |
|
|
Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 15:42:50
|
Apologies. Maybe this will be better?
The art doesn't show him with his odd sword. I wonder if that's on purpose or an oversight. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 10 Sep 2017 15:43:56 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2017 : 17:19:22
|
| Mike Schley has gone back and added to the pdf file map download -- now there are hexless versions! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2017 : 13:11:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Apologies. Maybe this will be better?
The art doesn't show him with his odd sword. I wonder if that's on purpose or an oversight.
Ah, thank you. Ok, I'll say it again, its weird how people are introducing monsters that I would have never thought others would be interested in but that I was using. I speak specifically of the almiraj, but also the kamadan.... and flying monkeys.
Update monsters: Almiraj (unicorn bunny), Kamadan, Mantrap, Tri-flower frond, Jacuuli, Zorbo (evil koala that destroys magic items). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 11 Sep 2017 13:11:35 |
|
|
|
Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2017 : 13:17:46
|
I'm really enjoying that as well.
Zorbo make for a great way to teach a group humility. Throw those in with a few rust monsters, and I can see any group happily prefer fighting a tarrasque instead. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2017 : 03:50:19
|
So I'm pretty excited about Tomb of Annihilation. High production value, good story, great vibe, interesting encounters, etc. And I don't feel they did much that isn't in line with existing lore, at least given the passage of time.
My beef, as with many things are some of the small things. Not addressing that the biggest tribe of Chultans are the Tabaxi (doh, the same name as the cat people which is fine, but should have gotten a throw away sentence explaining it). Or the forgetting of wild dwarves and Thard Harr; they don't have to play a role in the story--I know a lot of folks hate them--but in some ways I almost feel that they made the albino shield dwarves a bit more "wild." Again a place where a bit of acknowledgment would go a long way. Not explaining (at least that I've read yet) how Volo is still alive, and so on. Ah, well, I guess you can't have it all.
All that said, though, I think it's my favorite 5E adventure after Out of the Abyss and can't wait to play it. |
|
|
|
moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2017 : 05:26:26
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
My beef, as with many things are some of the small things. Not addressing that the biggest tribe of Chultans are the Tabaxi (doh, the same name as the cat people which is fine, but should have gotten a throw away sentence explaining it).
Actually, I did just read an explanation about why the two races, the cat people and the human tribe have the same name. I will post a link when I find it, but it's also explained by someone that was part of the Tomb of Annihilation development IIRC. So possibly the blurb explanation may appear on the final product? I have mine on pre-order.
For those who don't already know (I assume many old veterans in Candlekeep already know the reason the two groups are named the same). Basically, one group was mistaken for the other by early West Faerunian explorers (i.e. conquistadors).
And a real-world historical analogy of this…. is when Christopher Columbus also wrongly mis-identified the Caribbean and American natives and called them "Indians", believing that he had arrived in Asiatic India. But by the time the Spanish and Portuguese colonizers/cartographers realized Columbus' mistake, it was too late. The word stuck. The native Americans were labelled as "Indians" for centuries. Not to be confused with the (Hindu) Indians of Asia. |
Edited by - moonbeast on 22 Sep 2017 06:00:09 |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2017 : 13:54:57
|
Given that one set looks like humans and the other set looks like cat people, I'm not buying that explanation. I will buy an explanation that the tabaxi came from Katashaka (canon from GHotR), and that they left many of their people behind (canon from GHotR). Then I will buy that these tabaxi at some point over the last 4200 years were changed from humans into cat folk (possibly using some of the creator race magics of the humans) <not canon>. I will also buy that Katashaka is the big continent south of Maztica (which isn't canon, but is becoming accepted by many of us, just like the one off on its lonesome is becoming accepted as being Osse my many of us). I will also buy that the tabaxi of Katashaka at some point crossed the small stretch from Katashaka to the jungles of Maztica (also not canon). Finally, I will buy that Quotal and Ubtao are one and the same being (also not canon, but HEAVILY hinted at, and Brian R. James at one point did indicate he was leaning this way... which of course makes Qotal a Primordial, as well as possibly his "brothers and sisters").
–2809 DR
The Eshowe, the Tabaxi, and the Thinguth tribes, as well as several others that accepted Ubtao’s message, follow the couatls in a great pilgrimage across the seas to the Jungles of Chult. The tribes land on the Wild Coast and march inland to the Peaks of Flame, where the avatar of Ubtao welcomes them.
also this from GHotR
Though we were anxious, we trusted in the Father to deliver us safely to Chult. Our tribe had never before made a long journey upon the liquid sky. Each hour of paddling took us northward and farther away from Katashaka—our home since the birthing days. Floating in our canoa amid the endless blue, we Tabaxi held faith in Ubtao and his plumed servant Ecatzin.
and this from later
We soon prepared for a great pilgrimage across the endless blue to Chult, the home of Ubtao. On the day of departure, I whispered a silent prayer to the spirits of Katashaka, beseeching them to watch over those who remained behind. When the shores of my homeland had at last slipped silently away into the thickening fog behind us, I turned to Ecatzin and spoke.
“The current is swift, and we are three hundred canoa strong ,” I said. “Take us to Chult, friend Ecatzin, and into the mighty
arms of the Father. There the enemies of the Tabaxi shall know fear, because I am Oyai, Slayer of the Sleeper, First Bara of Ubtao, and long shall I rule!” |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2017 : 17:22:56
|
Having both human and cat Tabaxi share a common heritage makes the most sense. Mistaking cat-people for non cat-people is a huge stretch -- it only makes sense if the viewers were at a distance, and could only see some humanoid figures. Of course, if that was the case, why were they making the assumption?
No, it makes more sense -- at least in my opinion -- that one group of Tabaxi split off from the rest, and were somehow turned into cat-people. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2017 : 19:14:06
|
| Volo's Guide to Monsters gives the explanation on the name difference, but I think it should have been stated in the book and they should have acknowledged that over the last 100 years the tribal affiliations of most native Chultans has weakened as tribes in the interior have disappeared, leaving most Chultans living in small settlements in the coastal areas having no specific linkage to the original tribes of Chult's settlers, the Tabaxi, Eshow, Aldani, etc. |
|
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2017 : 19:31:36
|
Yeah, I've tied all of that to my homebrewed Ancient History of Zakhara, and the Raksasha (who ruled in that region before the Genie revolt). The Raksasha had performed certain 'favors for the gods' (see my history of the Godswar involving Baast & Ra), and were thus allowed to maintain their own domains within the prime Material (until newer gods - who never even saw that agreement - came into play). One of the things they did was crossbreed with various groups of kidnapped peoples, trying to create strains of 'optimized' slaves for specific tasks. One place they raided was the Large Island just east of Katashaka, homeland of the ancient Tabaxi people. They created the cat-like Tabaxi from these captives, but those people still insisted on referring to themselves as 'Tabaxi' - the never lost their connection to their heritage (although outside of the name, very little is left now besides legends).
There are at least a dozen different cat-like, intelligent races on Toril, and all are related back to the Rakshasa experiments. The ones that bred the most 'True' would be the Catlords; these creatures are akin to first-generation hybrids (so technically tieflings, but a VERY specfic kind of Tiefling). Like the regular Tieflings (4e+) that we see around the Realms today, they have become a race unto themselves, albeit a very small one. They only 'breed true' when mating with other Catlords, and their independent nature does not allow for this very often. Female Catlords are insanely rare, but when they do copulate with another Catlord, they will have a multiple birth. Roll 2D6 -
2 = single birth (bad omen)
3-5 = twins
6-8 = triplets
9-11 = quadruplets
12 = Auspicious birth (roll 1D6)
1,2 = Five children
3 = Six offspring
4 = Seven newborn (at least one female)
5 = Eight brood (at least one a powerful chaotic evil manipulator like their fiendish forbears)
6 = DM's Special (more kids, or maybe a 'Chosen One', born with some strange physical feature, etc).
Seven or more children ALWAYS means at least one female, otherwise there is only a 10% chance (roll for each babe on a D10, with 10 = female). Like all felines, Tabaxi do NOT have an aversion to 'incest'. In fact, they find the concept amusing.
Almost no non-Tabaxi will have heard of female 'Catlords' (which they refer to as a 'Catmistress'); they will hide their true nature from everyone (including other Catfolk if it suits their purposes). If a non-Catfolk finds out about a female Catlord, it will be one of the rare times several will work together in order to kill the persons involved, and destroy all evidence. They know how precariously their own continued existence hang by a thread because of this utmost secrecy. It is very rare when you find more than one Catlord in a single settlement, no matter how large, but they will have other catfolk about (including Tabaxi) who defer to them as a 'lord' amongst their kind. They do have a network of sorts, through minions, wherein they keep tabs on other Catlords and where they are operating, mostly to stay out of each other's way, but also in case of the situation described above (Catlords WILL answer the summons of another Catlord in that scenario, otherwise they treat any sort of interaction with disdain and indifference... just like a cat.)
Thats ALL homebrew, BTW. 
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Volo's Guide to Monsters gives the explanation on the name difference, but I think it should have been stated in the book and they should have acknowledged that over the last 100 years the tribal affiliations of most native Chultans has weakened as tribes in the interior have disappeared, leaving most Chultans living in small settlements in the coastal areas having no specific linkage to the original tribes of Chult's settlers, the Tabaxi, Eshow, Aldani, etc.
I think by this point (post Spellplague, 5e+) everyone just calls them 'Chultans, including themselves (except for maybe some VERY 'old folk'). This would make it so much easier than still using 'Tabaxi' for them (but keep it in the lore, of course). It also won't get mixed-up with the ethnic group, since thats Turami. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 22 Sep 2017 19:45:30 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2017 : 02:27:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yeah, I've tied all of that to my homebrewed Ancient History of Zakhara, and the Raksasha (who ruled in that region before the Genie revolt). The Raksasha had performed certain 'favors for the gods' (see my history of the Godswar involving Baast & Ra), and were thus allowed to maintain their own domains within the prime Material (until newer gods - who never even saw that agreement - came into play). One of the things they did was crossbreed with various groups of kidnapped peoples, trying to create strains of 'optimized' slaves for specific tasks. One place they raided was the Large Island just east of Katashaka, homeland of the ancient Tabaxi people. They created the cat-like Tabaxi from these captives, but those people still insisted on referring to themselves as 'Tabaxi' - the never lost their connection to their heritage (although outside of the name, very little is left now besides legends).
There are at least a dozen different cat-like, intelligent races on Toril, and all are related back to the Rakshasa experiments. The ones that bred the most 'True' would be the Catlords; these creatures are akin to first-generation hybrids (so technically tieflings, but a VERY specfic kind of Tiefling). Like the regular Tieflings (4e+) that we see around the Realms today, they have become a race unto themselves, albeit a very small one. They only 'breed true' when mating with other Catlords, and their independent nature does not allow for this very often. Female Catlords are insanely rare, but when they do copulate with another Catlord, they will have a multiple birth. Roll 2D6 -
2 = single birth (bad omen)
3-5 = twins
6-8 = triplets
9-11 = quadruplets
12 = Auspicious birth (roll 1D6)
1,2 = Five children
3 = Six offspring
4 = Seven newborn (at least one female)
5 = Eight brood (at least one a powerful chaotic evil manipulator like their fiendish forbears)
6 = DM's Special (more kids, or maybe a 'Chosen One', born with some strange physical feature, etc).
Seven or more children ALWAYS means at least one female, otherwise there is only a 10% chance (roll for each babe on a D10, with 10 = female). Like all felines, Tabaxi do NOT have an aversion to 'incest'. In fact, they find the concept amusing.
Almost no non-Tabaxi will have heard of female 'Catlords' (which they refer to as a 'Catmistress'); they will hide their true nature from everyone (including other Catfolk if it suits their purposes). If a non-Catfolk finds out about a female Catlord, it will be one of the rare times several will work together in order to kill the persons involved, and destroy all evidence. They know how precariously their own continued existence hang by a thread because of this utmost secrecy. It is very rare when you find more than one Catlord in a single settlement, no matter how large, but they will have other catfolk about (including Tabaxi) who defer to them as a 'lord' amongst their kind. They do have a network of sorts, through minions, wherein they keep tabs on other Catlords and where they are operating, mostly to stay out of each other's way, but also in case of the situation described above (Catlords WILL answer the summons of another Catlord in that scenario, otherwise they treat any sort of interaction with disdain and indifference... just like a cat.)
Thats ALL homebrew, BTW.
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Volo's Guide to Monsters gives the explanation on the name difference, but I think it should have been stated in the book and they should have acknowledged that over the last 100 years the tribal affiliations of most native Chultans has weakened as tribes in the interior have disappeared, leaving most Chultans living in small settlements in the coastal areas having no specific linkage to the original tribes of Chult's settlers, the Tabaxi, Eshow, Aldani, etc.
I think by this point (post Spellplague, 5e+) everyone just calls them 'Chultans, including themselves (except for maybe some VERY 'old folk'). This would make it so much easier than still using 'Tabaxi' for them (but keep it in the lore, of course). It also won't get mixed-up with the ethnic group, since thats Turami.
Hmmmm, while I don't intend to involve Zakhara.... I do like the idea that the tabaxi had some involvement with Rakshasa's that led to their conversion to cat folk. One of the things I am doing is having one city of lamia (Shimmani, City of the Cat Queens) and another with rakshasa (Latoombe, City of Tricksters)... and then I'm having various cat folk... so many types that naming them all would be a big list. Anyway, having the lamia and Rakshasa involved in somehow forming some of those cat races could be interesting. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2017 : 05:45:23
|
This was the explanation that I read, not the most preposterous assumption for conflating 2 different groups/species with each other. As quoted:
quote:
"Tabaxi" was also a term given to a race of humanoid jaguars found in both Chult and Maztica. It has been suggested that this was an error in naming. The explanation was that an explorer from Cormyr saw a Tabaxi tribesman dressed in ceremonial garb of panther skin and was told by a guide that the man was a Tabaxi. Misunderstanding what the guide meant, this explorer assumed that all cat-men were called "Tabaxi".
There is also a more recent explanation in a semi-recent Dragon+ online magazine. It doesn't seem like an explanation, but rather a retcon apology for the confusion. Read issue #11 in the article called "Lore you should know", Tabaxi vs tabaxi.
http://www.dragonmag.com/5.0/#!/article/113120/102960511?loadFresh=true&title=11_16_Lore%20You%20Should%20Know
|
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2017 : 14:29:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
This was the explanation that I read, not the most preposterous assumption for conflating 2 different groups/species with each other. As quoted:
quote:
"Tabaxi" was also a term given to a race of humanoid jaguars found in both Chult and Maztica. It has been suggested that this was an error in naming. The explanation was that an explorer from Cormyr saw a Tabaxi tribesman dressed in ceremonial garb of panther skin and was told by a guide that the man was a Tabaxi. Misunderstanding what the guide meant, this explorer assumed that all cat-men were called "Tabaxi".
There is also a more recent explanation in a semi-recent Dragon+ online magazine. It doesn't seem like an explanation, but rather a retcon apology for the confusion. Read issue #11 in the article called "Lore you should know", Tabaxi vs tabaxi.
http://www.dragonmag.com/5.0/#!/article/113120/102960511?loadFresh=true&title=11_16_Lore%20You%20Should%20Know
Yeah, I had read that article. But, like you said, no explanation.
I had not noted the quote you show above in Volo's Guide to monsters, and I can't find it either. Where is it from? I also find the above quote weak... I mean, if I see a person wearing a skin of a black furred panther, in a world with gnolls, minotaurs, and other such bestial humanoids.... I don't see me confusing that with an actual cat humanoid which is tawny and covered with spots. I could very much moreso buy the race being changed.... I mean look at what Zaltec did... he changed his worshippers into orcs, ogres, and trolls. Maybe the "jaguar lords" changed these people?
In fact, I'm warming to the idea that Rakshasa have many forms, not just that of tigers. Since they were powerful devils, maybe these jaguar lords are Rakshasas who wear a different form than tiger. Maybe there are black-furred, leonine, leopard spotted, white tiger-striped, and Persian cat looking rakshasa. Furthermore, maybe there are more powerful and lesser versions of rakshasa. Maybe even the "jaguar lords" are another variant of powerful rakshasa?
Hmmm, researching the above concept, 3e monster manual III introduces that Ak'chazar version of rakshasa, a white tiger headed creature that deals with necromancy. More of interest a pair of ak’chazar rakshasas is believed to operate in the city of Unthalass, currently occupied by the Mulhorandi army. They also have operatives stirring
up unrest in the Chessentan cities of Cimbar, Luthcheq, and Soorenar. .
Also in monster manual III it introduces the Naztharune rakshasa which is black-furred and is basically an assassin/shadow jumping/master of hiding & evasion with sneak attacks. And there's this about them in Faerun, "Most naztharune rakshasas serve the ak’chazar rakshasas as spies and assassins. A pair of ak’chazar rakshasas operating in Unther has sent naztharune agents to stir up unrest in neighboring Chessenta, most notably in the cities of Cimbar, Luthcheq, and Soorenar. These naztharune rakshasas have already compromised several local guilds and eliminated key politicians and merchants in an attempt to turn the Chessentan cities’ hatred of one another into open war. Naztharune rakshasas have also been encountered in cities as far west as Waterdeep and Calimport, in some cases pursuing their own agendas."
Hmmm, I'm gonna delve this more... I'd never really been satisfied with this one city of rakshasa. Maybe there should be three... one with the primarily tiger'ish ones that are tricksters.... one with the necromantic ones... and another.... Hmmm, and I know a classic imagery of rakshasa also portrayed some as ape headed instead of cat (also portrayed as such in the first ecology article in Dragon #84 by Old Empires author Scott Bennie).... so maybe some involvement that I had elsewhere
Hmmmm, dragon 326.... god of Rakshasa is Ravanna (based of Hindu legend), the ten-headed lord. Possibly useful new god.
Hmmm, and Eberron has the lords of dust... reading.... might be adaptable. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2017 : 16:35:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
This was the explanation that I read, not the most preposterous assumption for conflating 2 different groups/species with each other. As quoted:
quote:
"Tabaxi" was also a term given to a race of humanoid jaguars found in both Chult and Maztica. It has been suggested that this was an error in naming. The explanation was that an explorer from Cormyr saw a Tabaxi tribesman dressed in ceremonial garb of panther skin and was told by a guide that the man was a Tabaxi. Misunderstanding what the guide meant, this explorer assumed that all cat-men were called "Tabaxi".
There is also a more recent explanation in a semi-recent Dragon+ online magazine. It doesn't seem like an explanation, but rather a retcon apology for the confusion. Read issue #11 in the article called "Lore you should know", Tabaxi vs tabaxi.
http://www.dragonmag.com/5.0/#!/article/113120/102960511?loadFresh=true&title=11_16_Lore%20You%20Should%20Know
I'm honestly impressed that they actually went all the way back to the OGB to find a FR tabaxi reference. I didn't recall any references earlier than 2E, but I checked my pdf copy of the OGB just now, and found a single reference to a tabaxi. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2017 : 19:55:34
|
| If people thought manatees were mermaids, a Cormyrian explorer could think humans wearing animal skins were cat people. Just sayin. |
|
|
|
Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2017 : 22:52:49
|
If I may say so without being too abrasive, I've honestly been impressed with how much research they have done in this edition. I don't know if anyone here listens to the official Dungeons and Dragons Podcast, but they have a segment near the start of each episode titled "Lore You Should Know," where they interview people involved in the current adventure design and development. The amount of research that frequently goes back to first edition is much more than my prejudice expected.
The Tabaxi issue is just one of many points that illustrate that, I believe. It's definitely not an isolated incident.
|
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2017 : 23:28:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
If I may say so without being too abrasive, I've honestly been impressed with how much research they have done in this edition. I don't know if anyone here listens to the official Dungeons and Dragons Podcast, but they have a segment near the start of each episode titled "Lore You Should Know," where they interview people involved in the current adventure design and development. The amount of research that frequently goes back to first edition is much more than my prejudice expected.
The Tabaxi issue is just one of many points that illustrate that, I believe. It's definitely not an isolated incident.
That's because fans have made that research a lot easier. For instance, when I looked up rakshasa earlier today, it pointed me to multiple dragon articles, monster manual entries, etc... earlier editions just quite simply didn't have that. That being said, the breadth of lore at that time wasn't as extreme. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2017 : 01:17:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
If I may say so without being too abrasive, I've honestly been impressed with how much research they have done in this edition. I don't know if anyone here listens to the official Dungeons and Dragons Podcast, but they have a segment near the start of each episode titled "Lore You Should Know," where they interview people involved in the current adventure design and development. The amount of research that frequently goes back to first edition is much more than my prejudice expected.
The Tabaxi issue is just one of many points that illustrate that, I believe. It's definitely not an isolated incident.
That's because fans have made that research a lot easier. For instance, when I looked up rakshasa earlier today, it pointed me to multiple dragon articles, monster manual entries, etc... earlier editions just quite simply didn't have that. That being said, the breadth of lore at that time wasn't as extreme.
I'm sure that's a major contributing factor. I know the improvements have helped me make my own campaigns more... interesting. Just being able to look up a few quick keywords here and on the FR Wiki lets me go straight to the book I need rather than spend precious time looking for the right source.
I can only imagine how much of a boon that must be when you're doing that as a job, where time is money and corporate is breathing down your neck with deadlines.  |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2017 : 03:45:27
|
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
If I may say so without being too abrasive, I've honestly been impressed with how much research they have done in this edition. I don't know if anyone here listens to the official Dungeons and Dragons Podcast, but they have a segment near the start of each episode titled "Lore You Should Know," where they interview people involved in the current adventure design and development. The amount of research that frequently goes back to first edition is much more than my prejudice expected.
The Tabaxi issue is just one of many points that illustrate that, I believe. It's definitely not an isolated incident.
That's because fans have made that research a lot easier. For instance, when I looked up rakshasa earlier today, it pointed me to multiple dragon articles, monster manual entries, etc... earlier editions just quite simply didn't have that. That being said, the breadth of lore at that time wasn't as extreme.
I would say the research was just as easy in 4E, yet there was certainly less concern about adhering to prior canon in that edition. No, I think this represents a change in their thinking, with regards to the setting.
That said, it's still not ideal. We didn't need an imported baddie, and the trickle of lore we get now, compared to what we were getting, is simply painful. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2017 : 16:41:28
|
| The insertion of Acererak was less jolting to me once I read the explanation. Frankly, it's kind of a throw back to 2E. |
|
|
|
Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2017 : 16:46:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
The insertion of Acererak was less jolting to me once I read the explanation. Frankly, it's kind of a throw back to 2E.
Same. He isn't even supposed to be the final boss. It's possible to encounter him, yes, but if you don't like him being there, leaving him out is no issue.
I kinda like the throwback to 2e, as well. It makes sense for a planes travelling power like him to have had some influence beyond GH. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
|
|
|
chibi_grazzt
Acolyte
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2017 : 03:02:12
|
| WotC delivers another hit; very on-brand. I love this book, really well written and evocative in art. I am getting ideas on how to really develop it further. |
My Realms Drow Campaign for D&D 5e:
https://doomofthedrow.obsidianportal.com |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2017 : 20:04:31
|
| Just got it today. Barely had a chance to read it, but man they ruined the al-mi'raj by focusing on the 1e and not the 2e version. I mean it was nothing special before, but its main ability was that this unicorn-horned rabbit could basically teleport short distances, so it became something interesting to hunt. Then of course, there were the rare psionic ones that could control wind, control light, telekinetically hurl stuff, levitate and set stuff on fire. Granted, the psionic ones were funny, but the others at least giving them the teleportation made them interesting.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 21:44:44
|
| I have to ask, would this be a good book for non-gamers, or is it mainly an adventure module? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2017 : 02:55:07
|
Corellons Devout I'm not sure how to answer you. I'm don't think I'd recommend any game books for nongamers. Here's the TOC breakdown:
Minor Spoiler Warning from chapter titles....
Intro: 8 pages
Welcome to Chult: 7 pages
Port Nyanzaru (including side quests, locations, city denizens, factions, and things to do): 22 pages
Land of Chult (basically a gazetteer of most of the sites you can visit, basically the section of most regional books that describes much the same): 54 pages
-- then you get into the more structured adventure locations --
Dwellers of the Forbidden City of Omu: 20 pages
Fane of the Night Serpent 14 pages
Tomb of the Nine Gods: 66 pages
PC Character Backgrounds: 2 pages
Random Encounters: 12 pages
Discoveries (Aka flora and fauna and magic items or stuff): 4 pages
Monster and NPCs: 34 pages
Player Handouts: 13 pages
There are various sidebars throughout with bits of lore, such as those dealing with Ubtao's continued disappearance since the beginning of the Spellplague.
|
|
|
|
moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2017 : 00:47:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I have to ask, would this be a good book for non-gamers, or is it mainly an adventure module?
Maybe it will help turn you into a (D&D) gamer?
Is finding a gaming group that hard in your area? Or in your situation?
Trust me. Reading books and lore is a nice hobby. But playing the game is like LIVING inside the lore. It is essentially what role-playing games are about…. it's living a life inside a fantasy world (through the eyes of your Character). Don't just read about the heroes….. BE one of the heroes. That has always been the lure of FRPGs, and even I knew this 2 decades ago when I was a teen DM.
The best way is to find a stable and long-term DM who runs a "long-term" living campaign for a handful of players. This type of campaign does not end after a single "Campaign Book" (e.g. a single campaign like Rage of Demons). Rather, the Player-Characters continue from one adventure campaign after another…. until the real-world Players end up playing in the same Living Campaign for years, and their Characters (the ones that survive countless monster attacks) eventually retire in their gray-haired years, or they max out their powers and become demigods etc.
It's like living a second life, one where you (through your Character's eyes) are immersed in the lore of a fantasy world. It's quite an experience.
|
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2017 : 01:01:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Corellons Devout I'm not sure how to answer you. I'm don't think I'd recommend any game books for nongamers.
I will buy the books for lore purposes. For example, I often buy the campaign and player guide books.
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
Maybe it will help turn you into a (D&D) gamer?
Is finding a gaming group that hard in your area? Or in your situation?
A bit of both, I guess. I’ve played before, but those groups fell apart (friendship drama). I know there are gaming opportunities, and I have friends who play, but they play in a different circle of friends, if that makes sense. They have their own thing going on.
quote:
Trust me. Reading books and lore is a nice hobby. But playing the game is like LIVING inside the lore. It is essentially what role-playing games are about…. it's living a life inside a fantasy world (through the eyes of your Character). Don't just read about the heroes….. BE one of the heroes. That has always been the lure of FRPGs, and even I knew this 2 decades ago when I was a teen DM.
Oh, I know lol. I roleplay via writing/text, and oral storytelling (which is somewhat like LARPing, but not quite as much activity lol). I’m familiar with being “in character”, and having adventures. I don’t read sourcebooks cover to cover, I’ll just read them for info I am interested in, and for any updates in the setting. But if it’s mainly a gaming adventure, it has little use to me, personally.
|
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2017 : 03:43:27
|
| I really like this adventure. The book is really good. Art is superb quality. The hexcrawling and the sandbox style really did it for me. Representing the setting of Chult is also very well done. Good stuff! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Tomb of Annihilation
