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killerasus
Acolyte
Brazil
13 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Apr 2017 : 01:16:16
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Hi folks, I have some questions regarding etymology in the Realms. I believe some of its contents can be considered spoiler for those who haven't played the adventure yet.
I am writing a series of posts in my blog about the Lost Mine of Phandelver (similar to what Scrivener of Doom did in his blog My Realms).
In my research, I found that there is a tree called phandar (in the Silver Marches book). The name caught my attention, as Phandalin and Phandelver seem to share a root. Is there a connection, such as Phandalin being given this name due to a lot of phandars where it was built? Or is it just because of Phalorm?
A similar question would be about Uth. We've got Uthgardt barbarians and the Uthtower in the Mere of Dead Men. Is Uth a root with some meaning?
Lastly, when the Terraseer created Quesseer (now known as Old Owl Well, from Lost Empires of Farūn and Netheril: Empire of Magic), I had some thoughts, don't know if they are correct according to written and spoken netherese (old thorass?). As it was meant to be a spying spot to Illefarn, I presume Quess would be from the elven root for people (from Tel'Quess) and seer would be derived from it's spying function. So, Quesseer would roughtly be translated to "Elf Watcher". Do I presume wrong?
Thanks for any input on this topic =)
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I blog in Brazilian Portuguese about RPGs at http://minasdesal.wordpress.com |
Edited by - killerasus on 23 Apr 2017 01:17:05
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2017 : 02:03:23
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Great questions killerasus but any answers would be just guesses on the part of the members here. There is nothing in the published sources to confirm or deny your ideas and hypotheses.
Saying that, I think Uth is a Northmen root name - but I can't tell you what it is! Similarly, I like the idea that Quesseer is a slang term used by the Netherese to denote "Elf Watcher" and there being a tie between phandar trees and the places you note. No reason why your theories aren't right, but no one can tell you they are! Except Ed that is, and I think he has too many personal and professional irons in the fire at the moment to give you an answer.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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killerasus
Acolyte
Brazil
13 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2017 : 04:08:43
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Thanks for your reply George Krashos. I think I'll have to keep with these hypotheses till we get a word from Ed.
I might be missing some lore from the books I referenced or an article published in a Dragon Magazine. Might as well look for some pointers in The Grand History of the Realms.
Fortunately I like doing this kind of research  |
I blog in Brazilian Portuguese about RPGs at http://minasdesal.wordpress.com |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2017 : 06:03:05
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I'm not a fan of assuming that words with similar components have any kind of a connection. Card, care, carp, and cart all start with "car" -- but there's no other connection between any of those words.
Obviously, I can't say that you've not stumbled on to something, here... But I, personally, would need to see more before I assumed a connection. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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killerasus
Acolyte
Brazil
13 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2017 : 12:57:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not a fan of assuming that words with similar components have any kind of a connection. Card, care, carp, and cart all start with "car" -- but there's no other connection between any of those words.
Obviously, I can't say that you've not stumbled on to something, here... But I, personally, would need to see more before I assumed a connection.
Hi Wooly Rupert,
Unfortunately, in your example, I don't believe the words have a connection at all. They seem to have different roots. Car, card, care, and carp are being compared based only on their letters, not to their root words and language family tree (e.g. germanic, romance, etc.).
I agree with you that maybe I'm taking a longshot in trying to find a connection. I am no languages expert, and we're dealing with a fantasy language that was not built to be usable. =(
Thanks for your reply  |
I blog in Brazilian Portuguese about RPGs at http://minasdesal.wordpress.com |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2020 : 02:50:53
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Acolyte killerasus,
It would seem you are on to something there. You are referring to what is called a morpheme in linguistics. I'm no expert here to be clear, but I fooled around with this stuff a bit in times past.
In the case of Phan it appears (not knowing that language) that it would be a bound morpheme, meaning, it would need to be associated with a free morpheme in order to have value or meaning. If Phan does mean something specific that would allow it to stand alone and have value/meaning, it would be a free morpheme.
Interestingly enough, if you look at Phan, followed by different suffixes such as -delver, -ar, -ars, -alin, or -orm, it really seems to be that the prefix (in this case) of Phan is a free morpheme.
Based on all that, I really think that your outlook on 'Uth', 'Quess', and 'Seer' likely have a value associated with a free morpheme.
Thoughts?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by killerasus
Hi folks, I have some questions regarding etymology in the Realms. I believe some of its contents can be considered spoiler for those who haven't played the adventure yet.
I am writing a series of posts in my blog about the Lost Mine of Phandelver (similar to what Scrivener of Doom did in his blog My Realms).
In my research, I found that there is a tree called phandar (in the Silver Marches book). The name caught my attention, as Phandalin and Phandelver seem to share a root. Is there a connection, such as Phandalin being given this name due to a lot of phandars where it was built? Or is it just because of Phalorm?
A similar question would be about Uth. We've got Uthgardt barbarians and the Uthtower in the Mere of Dead Men. Is Uth a root with some meaning?
Lastly, when the Terraseer created Quesseer (now known as Old Owl Well, from Lost Empires of Farūn and Netheril: Empire of Magic), I had some thoughts, don't know if they are correct according to written and spoken netherese (old thorass?). As it was meant to be a spying spot to Illefarn, I presume Quess would be from the elven root for people (from Tel'Quess) and seer would be derived from it's spying function. So, Quesseer would roughtly be translated to "Elf Watcher". Do I presume wrong?
Thanks for any input on this topic =)
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Etymology of Phandalin and other words
