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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36801 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Sep 2017 : 23:12:19
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They appear to be nearly the opposite of Pathfinder/Golarion's Gnomes.
I like them both - just different takes for different worlds. I was just thinking in terms of making them more interesting for FR, without having to rewrite any lore. I suppose something along the lines of the Midgard gnomes would be possible, especially in the Unapproachable East (seems like they are always 'plagued by fiends' over there). The way I was spinning it, both extremes would still be possible - different communities would have different flavors, from the extremely dark (like those Midgard ones) to the whimsical ones we are mostly used to. Its just that they'd all have a racial 'Gnomes First' attitude - they'd stick together and help each other, no matter how far separated. The do feel a kinship to the Hin, whom they often live among, and they also feel friendship (if not kinship) with dwarves, who have very similar attitudes about the earth, crafting, and metallurgy. They don't trust the dwarves as much as the Hin, though, because the dwarves too often ally with 'Big Folk', whom Gnomes look at as rivals for the same resources. They are also leery of elves, despite having an ancient connection through the Fey, for similar reasons as with dwarves, but also because the elves are older and wiser, and may have similar 'secret leanings' of their own (they feel being in close proximity to communities of elves for too long would eventually alert the elves to how organized the gnomes truly are - they prefer to remain 'forgotten'). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2017 : 04:58:45
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| Midgard gnomes sound a bit like how I envision evil gnomes and perhaps some svirfneblin that worship Urdlen. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2017 : 17:18:03
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I usually don't make gnomes very secretive, on the contrary, they like to boast about nearly everything they do. But their interests lie so much elsewhere that they don't bother to convey their relevant secrets to others. And they lie. Constantly. (One of my favorite portrayal remains Jan from BG2, who kept on telling fabricated stories about infamous family members.)
I prefer the tinker gnome archetype over the arcane gnomes, but I really like their history with the Netherese and the Nether Scrolls. So I tend to blend Lantanese/magi-tech elements into the traditional gnome settlements, while showing a natural ability with illusions. Incredible wooden engineering (waterwheel driven elevators and cranes) is apparent for forest gnome tree villages, while brass steamcraft (ventilation systems and alarms) is evident and a common sight for rock gnome cavern comlpexes.
Urdlen is feared for his influence, which is considerable across all the gnomish settlements, as some gnomes get struck by his madness after experiencing the greatest stress. These crawlers have fallen into psychopathy and sacrifice anything to the Blind Crawler Below, defacing that which they cant bodily destroy in his name. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2017 : 20:52:20
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Ahhhhh, but 'bragging' gnomes are actually brilliant agents. They mix freely with 'Big Folk' and brag about every little thing they've ever done, and exaggerate so absurdly they everyone knows they are completely full of Rothe Dung. This gives humans and others the impression that gnomes can't keep their traps shut, especially about even the slightest accomplishments... which means no one would ever suspect they've actually accomplished quite a lot (as a race) but never tell anyone. Its the perfect cover - more 'hiding in plain sight'.
Also, I picture the 'Bank of Lantan' very much like the Iron Bank of Braavos from GoT, although most people never suspect its really the gnomes running everything in Lantan (including the human Lantanese, who don't suspect there is a 'secret government' behind their government). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 02:12:36
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Sorry, have to chime in here but gnomes are very much in the minority in Lantan, having settled there in numbers only after the ToT when Gond's avatar in the guise of a gnome washed up there. Legend suggests that the island of Lantan may have been the original gnome "homeworld"- it would appear that they arrived there via a portal or spelljamming (I like the latter option with much later human settlers finding the remnants of this tech and ushering in the worship of Gond) - and that they then travelled to the mainland (or were driven off the island by someone or something - dragons, illithids, plague, lots of options). Gnomes do not control Lantan. Never have. But I suspect that they are making progress!
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 05:54:29
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There are no humans on Lantan; those are human-seeming effigies! See, they even have YOU fooled, George! 
This is why they discourage visits to their island - they don't want anyone to accidentally discover the truth. The place is loaded with fembots!!! |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Sep 2017 05:54:51 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11820 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 14:28:29
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Sorry, have to chime in here but gnomes are very much in the minority in Lantan, having settled there in numbers only after the ToT when Gond's avatar in the guise of a gnome washed up there. Legend suggests that the island of Lantan may have been the original gnome "homeworld"- it would appear that they arrived there via a portal or spelljamming (I like the latter option with much later human settlers finding the remnants of this tech and ushering in the worship of Gond) - and that they then travelled to the mainland (or were driven off the island by someone or something - dragons, illithids, plague, lots of options). Gnomes do not control Lantan. Never have. But I suspect that they are making progress!
-- George Krashos
+1 to this idea of gnomes being there and humans discovering their tech. Link to Nimbral possibly and spelljammers? After all, we don't know WHY spelljammers harkened to Nimbral other than a possible link with the Leirans on Selune. Nor do we know a WHEN either. I could very much see a gnomish spelljammer crashing on Lantan during Karsus' Folly though, its techno-magical helm having failed. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2017 : 15:46:10
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| All this talk off Spelljamming lately... I wonder if Golarion needs a cartographer... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Corruption
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2017 : 11:51:18
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Just thinking, imagine the gnomes and Halflings running a thieves guild? No-one would expect them and their communities are easily hidden.
Considering that gnome culture seems to emphisise stealth and trickery in it's legends, that would fit them well.
Lightfoot Halflings would fit in well with that idea. |
When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2017 : 12:53:13
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But that's racial profiling and discrimination! Accusing gnomes and halflings of theft simply because ... well, because they're actually very good at it ...
Humans and dwarves can be thieves, too! And elves, too, I suppose, technically. But I wouldn't want any of *those* elves in *my* guild ... |
[/Ayrik] |
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Taleras
Seeker
75 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2017 : 13:57:49
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| Doesn't Salvatore mention a Halfling community that is at least connected to a Thieve's Guild, if not the guild itself in the Sellswords Series? Dwahvel Tiggerwillies is the owner of an establishment where Halflings hang out, but it's never officially referred to as any organization, though I feel like it is implied. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2017 : 17:18:32
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I always thought it was just accepted in D&D that halflings ran most of the Thieves' Guilds? Maybe that was just Greyhawk... or just my version of it...
Personally, I love the take from Races of the Wild for halflings - like gypsies (traveling entertainers and thieves).
As for RAS, I think you may be getting two different groups mixed up - I believe Dwahvel DID run a thieves guild in Calimshan; it was more than implied. But the organization that stood-out more prominently (to me, at any rate) in that series was the Citadel of Assassins, which was an all-human guild, AFAIK, until Jarlaxle and Bregan D'aerthe took it over.
The difference between human-run thieves guilds and the Hin ones is that halflings do so secretively. Most communities with a Hin guild won't even know they have one. It probably confuses the heck out of them why human thieves guilds like to be (in)famous (the 'big folk' guilds tend to be into other 'underworld' activities, like extortion, which require more thuggery, which Hin consider 'classless' endeavors; they consider thievery more of an 'art'). Once again, for the small folk, subtlety is key. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Oct 2017 17:19:35 |
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Taleras
Seeker
75 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 02:00:38
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| Okay, gotcha. Couldn't remember if it was openly mentioned that Dwahvel had a thieves guild or not. I remember the Citadel of Assassins as well. They do end up taking it over, I believe, by placing a Bregan D'aerthe person in charge, but behind the scenes. |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 02:32:24
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I even have a title for potential dmguild product
the secret life of gnomes. :D |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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Corruption
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 04:22:18
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I have an idea for where would have been a great place for a rogues guild of Halflings and Gnomes: Lantan!
They could have been encouraged by the priests of Gond to steal from mages, spy on them, assassinate some and sabotage their works. |
When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 06:13:51
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Priests of Gond would tend to focus on craft, workmanship, artistry, invention, technology. Not on theft, stealth, crime, money, and acquisition of things.
Although gnomes are naturally inclined tinkers and innovators. And many Gondsmen are accomplished locksmiths. And, from time to time, they may need to procure certain materials, trinkets, or magical exotica to conduct their research and build their machines.
I can imagine Gond's clergy interacting with a thieves or a thieves' guild whenever some kind of lock or trap or mechanism or precision tool needs to be invented, constructed, circumvented, or disarmed. Just as I can imagine Gond's clergy interacting with a wizard or wizards' guild whenever some kind of laboratory/workshop apparatus or alchemical mixture or process needs to be invented, constructed, etc. But in both cases I don't readily imagine Gond's clergy having interests which deeply overlap those of the thieves or wizards; such folk serve other deities and passions than Gond Wonderbringer. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 06:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
I even have a title for potential dmguild product
the secret life of gnomes. :D
50 Shades of Gnome?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 07:54:00
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| Make gnome mistake, gnome miss gnomer, there's no race like gnome, the puns are here. |
[/Ayrik] |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 08:31:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Varl
Midgard gnomes sound a bit like how I envision evil gnomes and perhaps some svirfneblin that worship Urdlen.
You know what's really creepy? Urdlen sits on the same level of deific power as Lolth.
That's horrifying. The gnomish god of "BLOOD MURDER DEATH DESTRUCTION KILL ANNIHILATE" is on the same level of power as the Spider-Queen.
EDIT: Fun trivia, Tolkien's Noldor were once called gnomes before Tolkien changed his mind. Try and imagine a gnome taking on Morgoth. |
Edited by - LordofBones on 02 Oct 2017 08:34:31 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 09:05:24
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The Wikipedia page says: "Morgoth is able to dominate the minds of the Elves wherever they go, by instilling his fear in them. Even the [Noldor] are thus not truly free."
So these ("very tall and muscular") Noldor wouldn't fare well against Morgoth, whether they be "gnomes" or "elves". At least being "elves" better explains their genealogies being entangled with Galadriel, Elrond, Arwen, Aragorn, and all the rest, lol. And, as gnomes instead of elves, they would be as "unaffected" as hobbits by the Rings of Power, so turning them into "elves" greatly simplifies an already complex tale, lol.
Yet perhaps their odds against Morgoth/Sauron would indeed be increased by allying with Urdlen (Chaotic Evil Intermediate Deity of Greed, Bloodlust, Evil, Hatred, Violence, Murder-Death-Kill! etc). Trade one evil deity for another, although this one is a gnome evil (not an un-gnome evil) so is of course much preferable, lol.
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[/Ayrik] |
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Corruption
Acolyte
32 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 10:13:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Priests of Gond would tend to focus on craft, workmanship, artistry, invention, technology. Not on theft, stealth, crime, money, and acquisition of things.
Although gnomes are naturally inclined tinkers and innovators. And many Gondsmen are accomplished locksmiths. And, from time to time, they may need to procure certain materials, trinkets, or magical exotica to conduct their research and build their machines.
I can imagine Gond's clergy interacting with a thieves or a thieves' guild whenever some kind of lock or trap or mechanism or precision tool needs to be invented, constructed, circumvented, or disarmed. Just as I can imagine Gond's clergy interacting with a wizard or wizards' guild whenever some kind of laboratory/workshop apparatus or alchemical mixture or process needs to be invented, constructed, etc. But in both cases I don't readily imagine Gond's clergy having interests which deeply overlap those of the thieves or wizards; such folk serve other deities and passions than Gond Wonderbringer.
I came across a thread before that had made me think of it: [url=http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19994]The Secret Creed of Gond[/url].
When you combine that thread and a Gnome Rogue's guild, or better yet, network, things can get interesting. |
When all, even Gods, must die, then live a life worth living |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 13:26:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The Wikipedia page says: "Morgoth is able to dominate the minds of the Elves wherever they go, by instilling his fear in them. Even the [Noldor] are thus not truly free."
So these ("very tall and muscular") Noldor wouldn't fare well against Morgoth, whether they be "gnomes" or "elves". At least being "elves" better explains their genealogies being entangled with Galadriel, Elrond, Arwen, Aragorn, and all the rest, lol. And, as gnomes instead of elves, they would be as "unaffected" as hobbits by the Rings of Power, so turning them into "elves" greatly simplifies an already complex tale, lol.
Fingolfin and Gil-galad defied Morgoth and Sauron to their faces.
Gnomes aren't going to be unaffected by the Rings of Power. They'd fall, the same as the rest. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11820 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 13:34:49
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
I even have a title for potential dmguild product
the secret life of gnomes. :D
Cover picture.... a gnome male casting a spell to use an illusion to appear to be female and innocent looking in a "French maid outfit" . Nearby a silver platter upon which is a plate of some green bubbling concoction is mid transformation as well into a cup of tea. In the background, some degenerate looking human is in another room doing something bad. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 02 Oct 2017 13:36:54 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2017 : 14:39:04
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Cover picture.... a gnome male casting a spell to use an illusion to appear to be female and innocent looking in a "French maid outfit" . Nearby a silver platter upon which is a plate of some green bubbling concoction is mid transformation as well into a cup of tea. In the background, some degenerate looking human is in another room doing something bad.
Flaunting danger, lol. Given that whole fiasco about Mizhena.
I'm somehow reminded of old AD&D artwork. The picture of the red wizard scrying rather too intently on the scantily-clad female in his crystal ball. The picture of a wizard looking a little too pleased while holding a tiny scantily-clad female (with a weird reptilian tail) in the palm of his hand. |
[/Ayrik] |
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LordXenophon
Learned Scribe
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2017 : 14:31:17
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| You mean a Cormyrian maid outfit? |
Disintegration is in the eye of the Beholder. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2017 : 16:58:11
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quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon
You mean a Cormyrian maid outfit?
Cormyrian maids have tails? Succubus?
What is their number to call for cleaning service! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11820 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2017 : 01:38:02
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quote:
Originally posted by LordXenophon
You mean a Cormyrian maid outfit?
No, more Waterdhavian maid. The Cormyrians are a bit more modest. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2017 : 17:04:51
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Hence the expression, "Check-out the tail on her!"
I'm thinking Cormyrian nobility (and probably ALL nobility) aren't nearly as 'modest' as they outwardly present themselves to be.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2017 : 00:29:17
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| Sembian maid outfits probably aren't as exciting in a setting stuffed (overstuffed?) with corset-wearing tavern wenches eager to solicit tips. And there's the proverbial saw about "a maid should be seen, but not heard". |
[/Ayrik] |
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Topic |
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Gnomes: An overlooked race.
