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Originally posted by AuldDragon

Wildspace isn't necessarily cold in such a manner that all water would freeze. Ships don't need to take any special precautions against cold when traveling in the basic Spelljammer rules, and there aren't any statements in the material that small objects get cold/freeze over time, either by default or in Realmspace. If there is an extradimensional portal adding ice to the wildspace of a sphere, it's probably because it is a portal to Paraelemental Ice, rather than a portal to Paraelemental Water and the water is freezing. An ice moon would basically just be a water world that was colder than normal; chunks that broke off would stay cold/frozen. There are probably a few such in the Tears of Selune, as there are probably a few small air worlds, and possibly some dim fire worlds (nothing bright enough to be noticeable as brighter than normal from Toril, though). Most are certainly earth worlds, though.

Different rules apply in different spheres, though; for example, Krynnspace is notably cold compared to other spheres.

Also, even though the mountain tops of Selune are molten, the rest of the world is cool, typically between 40F and 60F (it rarely gets to freezing). Worrying about evaporation of the existing water doesn't seem to be an issue.

Jeff

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Also, after I typed this, I saw that there's a castle amongst the tears with a cauldron pouring water that eventually pours off into space.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Good point, somewhere in realmspace it says that this is one of the hotter spheres. Also, after I typed this, I saw that there's a castle amongst the tears with a cauldron pouring water that eventually pours off into space. Still, the idea of a link to the elemental plane of ice does make sense, and maybe the chunks build up during the 15 day "night" and then break loose. For some reason, I like the idea of a space ice escort service, maybe they deliver to the various inhabitants of the tears and to the docks on Leira.

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Originally posted by Wrigley

I cannot help myself but to be still amused by effort given to explain Toril's crystal sphere with RW physics. In the world where sun could be destroyed, moons hurled toward planet and mass could be generated out of nowhere... In this space theory of gravity could not work, thus planets make no sense too (they would fall apart) so why don't you just state "it's magic" and start from there instead of using it for any inconsistency that rises up.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Also, after I typed this, I saw that there's a castle amongst the tears with a cauldron pouring water that eventually pours off into space.

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Caer Windlauer, IIRC. Another of the reasons I tend to ignore anything specifically related to Toril, in that supplement -- because nowhere in Realmslore is that disappearing castle or that group of Moonshae assassins mentioned.

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Originally posted by AuldDragon

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Good point, somewhere in realmspace it says that this is one of the hotter spheres. Also, after I typed this, I saw that there's a castle amongst the tears with a cauldron pouring water that eventually pours off into space. Still, the idea of a link to the elemental plane of ice does make sense, and maybe the chunks build up during the 15 day "night" and then break loose. For some reason, I like the idea of a space ice escort service, maybe they deliver to the various inhabitants of the tears and to the docks on Leira.

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Ice transportation would be necessary on some asteroids, like Bral (it canonically has small ice asteroids dropped into the lake occasionally to replenish the water). Dragon Rock in the Tears, at 10 miles long, *might* be large enough to have water replaced through rain. Selune itself is large enough to have a healthy ecology (and does in canon), but if you wanted to make it not so for campaign reasons, bringing in ice from wildspace would be doable, but they either wouldn't be that large (major helms can only move the equivalent volume of a cube 65 feet to a side) or be very slow. It would probably mean civilization would amount to spread out settlements clustered around lakes that the ice could be dropped into.

Jeff

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Originally posted by sleyvas

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Also, after I typed this, I saw that there's a castle amongst the tears with a cauldron pouring water that eventually pours off into space.

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Caer Windlauer, IIRC. Another of the reasons I tend to ignore anything specifically related to Toril, in that supplement -- because nowhere in Realmslore is that disappearing castle or that group of Moonshae assassins mentioned.

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No, its just called "the citadel" and its a 100 foot tall citadel with an air envelope, growing grasses and bushes, and ravens that reproduce there. However, its also filled with small brown puddings (the kind that eat through leather and wood, not metal) that survive off the ravens and plants. Given the physical size, I'd probably have it be some storm giant castle that was somehow forced into space and its inhabitants killed by the puddings (and given that puddings reproduce when hit by lightning, having some storm giants who perform some stupid actions fits). Hell, maybe they even had the puddings as some kind of trash disposal system, got in a fight with invaders, and things just went wrong.... for both sides... when the puddings turned on them. Hell, maybe there's even some kind of helm on the asteroid. Hmmm, maybe I can use this place somehow without destroying its functionality as a place for adventurers to go. Hmmmm, Ghaunadar worshipping drow as invaders... .

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Originally posted by Markustay

As an aside - and to steer this post somewhat back on topic - Gray Richardson and I came up with a very plausible way to intertwine RW 'space' and the D&D version together - something that I had thought impossible when I first read the SJ material (which is probably why I found SJ so distasteful - it was the first bit of D&D lore I couldn't fit into my 'cosmic model' of everything). You see, you don't really 'enter space' when you use Spelljamming tech - you enter the Border Ethereal. A Spelljamming ship is actually a planesjammer, but with a very specific plane it can interact with (and this happens automatically). As you pass out of the atmosphere, the Helm causes you to phase-into the Ethereal. Wildspace IS the 'Border Ethereal' - its that plane when you go off-world. the 'heavenly bodies' you interact with are the Ethereal versions, NOT the real (Prime Material) ones.*

And when you leave the Crystal Sphere and enter the phlogiston, you've actually entered the Deep Ethereal - that is how it looks/behaves that far away from a singularity (outside a Crystal Sphere, in SJ parlance). This is the only plausible way that RW 'spaceships' can enter our fantasy worlds (and they DO - Expedition to the Barrier Peaks is all about that, and the rest of that MASSIVE world-ship is stranded in Greyspace). Somehow, an accident happens (in the words of Spock, "a spatial anomaly") and the 'real' (Scify) spaceship enters Ethereal Space. Think of it as a wormhole that allows you to enter another Quantum reality, which is 'layered' on top of our own (SEE? RW science!)

So basically, Hyperspace/'Warp' is nothing more than super-science finding a way to enter the Phlogiston and utilize it to 'shorten' the distance between worlds (because in RW physics, things CANNOT travel 'faster than light' within the Einsteinian {real} universe, and thus, Scify has created this concept of entering a 'higher plane' to break this rule - its precisely the same thing as magic!

Hyperspace IS the Ethereal Plane IS the Phlogiston.

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Originally posted by Markustay

On the other hand, Wooly, they actually explain that (I used to think like you, but I recently had to read that bit again, in its entirety).

Part of the wishes that placed it there also made people forget all about it.

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Originally posted by Markustay

Of course, that still doesn't explain the (new?) assassins that were also created as an outgrowth of that, and why there is no mention of them (unless they are VERY local).

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Originally posted by Markustay

And if you count 'Elminster's Hideout', that would make THREE citadels in Realmspace.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Wrigley

I cannot help myself but to be still amused by effort given to explain Toril's crystal sphere with RW physics. In the world where sun could be destroyed, moons hurled toward planet and mass could be generated out of nowhere... In this space theory of gravity could not work, thus planets make no sense too (they would fall apart) so why don't you just state "it's magic" and start from there instead of using it for any inconsistency that rises up.

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Why does the fact that objects can be affected by another force mean there is no gravity?

Also, I'll point out that it's been stated from the beginning -- all the way back to the OGB -- that physics is a little different in the Realms.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Wrigley

I cannot help myself but to be still amused by effort given to explain Toril's crystal sphere with RW physics. In the world where sun could be destroyed, moons hurled toward planet and mass could be generated out of nowhere... In this space theory of gravity could not work, thus planets make no sense too (they would fall apart) so why don't you just state "it's magic" and start from there instead of using it for any inconsistency that rises up.

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Why does the fact that objects can be affected by another force mean there is no gravity?

Also, I'll point out that it's been stated from the beginning -- all the way back to the OGB -- that physics is a little different in the Realms.

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Agreed with both - the physics which apply to our world/universe are not the same as the physics which apply in the Realms (or Realmspace). In the Realms (and Realmspace) "it's magic" is true. Or "it's divine fiat". Or "it's an extraplanar anomaly". Whatever it is, it's not physics, lol.

There are magics which alter, redirect, or negate gravity. There are also "natural" ("supernatural"?) phenomena which affect gravity, permanent zones of different gravity or variable gravity or whatever. The reverse gravity spell comes to mind. But even low-level floating disc and levitation and fly spells utterly defy the physics we understand.

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Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

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Originally posted by Markustay

And if you count 'Elminster's Hideout', that would make THREE citadels in Realmspace.

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One could quibble about the definition of a citadel, but it's easier to just agree on this one.

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