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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2471 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 00:35:40
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quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU
I imagine the Raven Queen as much like Kelemvor, but operating out of the Shadowfell and watching over the dead for other worlds, not Toril (because Kelemvor already does that). She'd like to gain more influence in Toril, and potentially even supplant K, but conflict with Orcus and other powers have kept her from expanding her reach. I think that balances lore nicely without having to introduce her to the Faerunian pantheon.
Edit: I think the UA lines up too closely with Myrkul's portfolio, which is why I suggested they might have the same portfolio, but on different worlds.
I'm not saying that I'm going to made her part of my version of the Faerunian Pantheon... yet. However, I'm still deciding what Sundering stuff happened in my Realms and what not (because, while I like some stuff that happened with the Sundering, I also like stuff from the 4e Realms —like the Anauroch being a verdant place or the concept of Earthmotes). Maybe I should leave Mirkul death, and made her take his place. Never like the guy after I read the Avatar series, lol. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 18:00:08
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Do you mean the Spellplague?
The Sundering is a weird enigma - its basically an in-game term for a soft reboot. 'The world is as it was'. Plus, its stupid, because we already HAD a Sundering 35k+ years ago, and by naming this new one the same thing, we have to type dumb crap like The Sundering (2.0) so people will know which event we are talking about.
The Sundering had to have happened, otherwise the 5e maps are wrong (we'd go back to the warped 3e-4e layout). The Spellplague you could ignore, but it makes a great solution to any sort of lore conundrums that pop-up with the NV/FR conversion.
Two positive things I've always said about the Spellplague, right from the beginning (when 4e was released) - it severed most of us from our grognardian need to cleave to canon, and it allowed us to shoe-horn ANYTHING we wanted (from other settings, homebrew, etc) without violating canon - just blame it on the Spellplague.
And a third - but never used (oddly) - positive: a campaign set IN the Spellplague, around 1390 DR or so, would be so freakin' awesome. You can use stuff from EVERY edition, without violating any canon (mostly because there isn't any - time and space have 'run amok'). My own Misbegotten Realms could even be blamed on the Spellplague (although I have it where its just an alternate Prime World/Crystal Sphere). Its really the ultimate 'Points of Light' setting, which is why I find it so odd they skipped right over it.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Feb 2017 18:09:04 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2471 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 18:20:27
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I like the concept of the Spellplague... but, well, I was "raised" on the Realms in 4e, so no wonder. But I know there is stuff that make no sense because of it, so the Sundering 2.0 its necessary, as you said. Just... I don't like every change the Sundering reverted. I like earthmotes, and I like Returned Abeir. I don't like Unther, but I can like Mulhorand (the "legal slave" stuff makes me uncomfortable... but is more tolerable in Mulhorand than in Unther). And so on.
That's why I'm still deciding what happened on my Realms in the Sundering 2.0.
And yeah, the Wailing Years would have been a good time to place a campaign. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36797 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2017 : 20:15:15
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| Earthmotes were one of the few 4E concepts I didn't mind, though it would have been better if there had been anything approaching an explanation for where the motes came from and what held them aloft. I know that some were previously solid, stationary chunks of land, but the majority just seemed to come out of nowhere. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2017 : 03:08:11
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Pieces of a 'shattered god' (primordial)?
Here's the thing about 4e - it gave us lots of nifty toys to play with. it also gave the designers (and authors) all the same nifty toys to play with. We just didn't care for the way they played with the toys.
In other words, in retrospect, I can't honestly point to any one thing (aside from the century time-jump) that just screams 'BAD' to me. Its like they sat around and had a "brainstorming Session", and they all threw ideas into a hat. Some were just okay, some were pretty good, and a few were actually gems. But none of those 'bare bones' ideas were just gawd-awful. Then they decided to use them ALL (BAD idea), all at once, (BAD idea implementation), without rhyme of reason, and without really thinking things through or trying to connect it all together in a cohesive way (at least not to most fan's PoV). They shouted, "Spellplague!", as if that was an answer. It could have been, but instead, it just became an excuse for lazy design.
For years after - right up until 5e came along - us fans were coming up with all sorts of explanations of why something changed so dramatically (for example, on the WotC boards I actually came up with a story for why Wargs look different in 4e than they did in any previous edition). Some of those theories weren't so hot, and a lot were pretty darn good, but the quality of those musings wasn't the point - its the fact that WE, THE FANS, had to try and make sense of the chaotic mess were were given. After many years of getting highly-detailed FR and Planer lore, we were suddenly left with a plate full of 'mysteries' (to put it mildly).
They wanted D&D to 'harken back to an earlier time', where things didn't have to make perfect sense, and the idea was just to get together and have a few hours of fun with your friends. I get that. Nostalgia's pretty neat. But we were spoiled at that point (they called it "entitled" ) We wanted well-thought-out lore and settings. We wanted all those persnikity details. The old guard, anyway. Newer players didn't care, and I guess in that regard, they succeeded.
Now, had they just left FR mostly intact, and just tweaked it for the new rules, and then used Nentir Vale for all the 'new kewl weird' they wanted to do, that would have been fine. They say they couldn't, but then proved the falsehood of that by giving Eberron that exact treatment. Even Dark Sun got a better (4e) treatment than FR did. So, as I said, it wasn't the ideas themselves so much that were terrible, but just the way they went about the whole thing. It was a slap in the face, and it didn't even feel like an accidental slap, either. That just made it so much worse.
So looking back, we can cherry-pick the stuff we liked, from any edition, really. In 2e we had pockets of 'Wild Magic'. In 3e Eberron had the Mournlands. In 4e we had 'Plaguelands'. Its all the same crap. I'd still have 'pockets of Wild Magic'... I might even refer to them as 'mournlands' (plaguelands just sound like illness to me). Just 'cause you don't like the newest buzz-word doesn't mean you have to throw the baby out with the bath-water. There was plenty of cool things in 4e - we just have to repurpose it for our Realms, is all. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Feb 2017 03:13:19 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2471 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2017 : 03:57:42
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Most of the motes can came from the Elemental Chaos (Plane of Earth, in other editions). That's the explanation I said to my players when someone asked a similar question.
EDIT
Here is my take on spellscars in 5e. I've converted it into a feat, but I have to ask: is this feat to much powerful? Or is weak?
Spellscarred:
Many creatures have spellscars that don’t provide them with special abilities—they’re simply disfigured as the result of the Spellplague. In contrast, you have learned how to focus the power of your spellscar to useful ends.
* As an spellscarred creature, you have disadvantage to all Charisma checks when you interact with any non-plaguechanged creatures or non-spellscarred creatures.
* You have disadvantage in saving throws against effects of the Spellplague or to attack rolls when you're fighting a plaguechanged creature or another spellscarred creature.
* You know when an area of Spellplague, or a plaguechanged or spellscarred creature, is within 30 feet of you.
* Choose one of the following traits. This trait represents the power you have gained from your spellscar.
Sight of the Unseen: You gain darkvision if you don't have it. You can use this trait once to ignite a dancing blue flame from your eyes and gain advantage in your next Wisdom (Perception) check. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a short or long rest.
Flamespeed: While using your move action, you can use this trait once to ignite your feet in blue flames, increasing your speed. Your base walking speed increases by 10 feet until the end of your next turn. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a short or long rest.
Dimension Shift: While using your move action, you can use this trait once to explode in a burst of blue flames to warp reality and teleport to a nearby area. You can cast the misty step spell. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a short or long rest.
Larger than Life: When you use an attack action, you can use this trait once to ignite your arms in blue flames, warping reality to increase the range of your next attack. Increase the reach or range of your next attack by 10 feet. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a short or long rest.
Twist Fate: As a bonus action, you can use this trait once to alter time and space and change a predestined fate. You gain advantage in your next skill check, attack roll or saving throw. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a short or long rest.
Vanish: As a bonus action, you can use this trait once to warp reality and become imperceptible to other beings for a short period of time. You can cast the invisibility spell without expending material components. You regain the ability to do so when you finish a short or long rest. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 20 Feb 2017 08:02:30 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 03:34:07
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"Of the dwarven realm of Haunghdannar we know very little, other than it once lie in the western end of the northern Sword Mountains, which the dwarves knew as Maruutdin. We know that they were seafarers, and legend has it they developed some type of magic that allowed them build ships made of metal. Oh, scoff if you want, but I have seen the rusted remains of one of these iron hulks. There is a ancient set of stone piers just west of Leilon – mostly rubble now – that has a few of these relics lying in the sand nearby. However, this site doesn't appear to be that kingdom's main port, Barrhindlun, which is said to lie off the coast, beneath the waves. This area seems to have been some sort of 'staging area' built at the mouth of a river – a river that apparently once ran through Leilon (then known as Alogh) but has since been thought to have dried up. However, my recent investigations into the region – and study of Elven records – indicate that at the time of Phalorm the Nentir River once traveled this path, and at some point must have become diverted into the lower valleys below the Sword Mountains, flooding those plains and becoming the Trollfens and Mere of Dead Men.
Now what could have caused this is impossible to say, but it may have been tied to the fate of the dwarves themselves, who are said to have all gone mad. The gnome village of Ieirithymbul is now known to be built over the site of the Haungh fortress of Olphrintar, but if the inhabitants of that place know anything of its past, they are being quite tight-lipped about it. We do know at the time of the dwarven kingdom, the river did not flow through that settlement, as it now does, as shown on old eleven maps of the region. The final Dwarfhold – the one said to have been the capital – was called Mnerim, and it was said to be located somewhere up in the the Ogrefist Hills, possibly along the same dry riverbed. The last few Haungh dwarves were finally overrun by trolls and ogres – who we still dwell in abundance in the nearby swamps and hills – and also orcs, who are ever a pestilence upon the good folk of The North. It is widely believed that Haunghdannar may have itself come under the sway of far Delzoun, and connected to Gauntlgrym by tunnels. If this be the case, then perhaps the recently discovered ruins of Hammer Keep (Dorthderym), near the base of Mt. Hotenow (known to the dwarves of old as Glaurimm), may have have been a haven for refugees fleeing fallen Haunghdannar. Both groups seem to have a penchant for very odd and advanced artificery, and hammer Keep has a legend about some type of 'wondrous ship'* of its own.
Of those strange metal ships of Haunghdannar almost nothing was known until recently, when an excavation project (involving widening a cellar) in Leilon revealed a series of subterranean chambers. One of which seems to have once been some sort of dwarvish library. Most of what was there was long rotted away, or eaten by vermin, but a small fragment of of a stone tablet with Dethek runes on it revealed that the ships were neither powered by oar nor sail. They were made to move by way of some sort of 'helm', guided by what translates to be a 'Seacaller' – some sort of Dwarven Skald chanter. The only other information we could discern was that they were coated with some sort of material that would protect them from corrosion, similar to elven Everbright, but much duller in color."
--- Sage Wehtam Tay'Cramlor, in his dissertation to the scholars of Candlekeep, Ancient Dwarven Engineering Marvels, in D.R. 1373
*Dungeon Magazine #20, The Ship of Night |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Feb 2017 04:30:03 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31726 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2017 : 04:27:18
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I just blended what we know of Haunghdannar from Dwarves Deep (all those place-names are canon) with the map-changes I had to make adding Nentir Vale to that area ("use the lore to explain the lore"), and connecting some of it to still-existing sites.
Linking it to the Hammer Keep (Hammerfast) lore from an old Dragon Magazine was just pure gravy.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Feb 2017 04:31:18 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2471 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2017 : 02:19:37
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I was working on this since I began this project, but real life and my (now relative low) lack of knowledge of the Realms (a problem that has become a minor one know that I've read a lot of stuff) got in the way. But I finished this at last. A few guidelines to adapt Nentir Vale specific factions to Realms.
Mind, my conversion is geared towards 1480 DR (as my last Realms campaign took place in that year). So, Neverember will be mentioned as the powerful player in the North he was in 4e. You can ignore him in this guideline if you're playing in the post-Sundering 2.0 years.
Fallcrest factions:
Fell Court: The same. This faction is generic enough to be used in any setting, and since Markustay has given me ideas on how to adapt Bael Turath to the Realms, there is no necessity of minor conversion for logic in the lore. (source: Monster Vault: Threats to the Nentir Vale—TtNV onwards)
The Honest Few: Generic faction, no need for conversion. (Source: Dragon 381)
Porter's Guild: Generic faction, no need for conversion. (Source: 4e Dungeon's Master Guide, Fallcrest section)
The River Rats: The same. This faction is generic enough to be used in any setting. We can connect this faction with the Dead Rats of Luskan, making Kelson and most of its members wererats. (source: TtNV)
Students of Aurtus: We must change the worship of Pelor for Amaunator/Lathander, though I remember Markustay saying that there is canon worship of Pelor in the Realms. (Source: Dragon 387)
Hammerfast factions:
Carthain's Gang: Generic faction, no need for conversion. (Source: Hammerfast sourcebook)
Circle of Stone: No need for conversion, as Moradin, Bane and Gruumsh all exist on the Realms. (Source: Hammerfast sourcebook)
Hammerfast Guilds: We may need to connect those dwarven guilds to other dwarven guilds in the region. Personally, I need a little help here, but the conversion should be easy for those familiar with dwarves in the North. (Source: Hammerfast sourcebook)
The Kuldar: A religious faction of Moradin. No need for conversion. (Source: Dragon 385)
Winterhaven specific factions:
Kalarel's cult: Dungeon 155 has an official conversion for this guy, so we can use that removing all Cormyr's stuff. (Source: Keep on the Shadowfell adventure)
Gardmore Abbey's factions are local enough that there is no need for conversion beyond minor details (such as gods' names) (Source: Madness at Gardmore Abbey super adventure)
Thunderspire Mountain factions:
Dungeon 156 has an official conversion for this. Removing Cormyr's stuff and is done. (Source: Thunderspire Labyrinth adventure)
Harkenwold factions:
Bloody Order of Harkenwold: Making part of the Zhents, perhaps the Banite branch. (Source: 4e Book of Vile Darkness)
Daggerburg goblins: Generic goblin faction. (source: TtNV)
Gravelstoke family: Decadent Waterdavian family, loyal supporters of Neverember (this people is of his ilk) (source: TtNV)
Harken's Heart: Local elven druid faction, at odds with the Emerald Enclave due to their zealot devotion to the Harken Forest. (source: TtNV)
Hunter Spiders: They are from Menzeberranzan, and Ti'irtha is another daughter of House Xolarrin's matron. No change in the rest of their backstory. (source: TtNV)
Iron Circle: Go with Markustay idea, and make them the third Zhent faction (the one loyal to Asmodeus). The Ashmadai cult of Neverwinter can be related to the Iron Circle as well. (source: TtNV)
Woodsinger Clan: Generic wood/wild elven clan. Those familiar with wood/wild elven activity in the North can easily connect the Woodsingers to established elven clans in the Realms. (source: 4e DMG, Fallcrest section)
Chaos Scar factions:
Local enough that there is no need for conversion beyond minor details (such as gods' names). Making the few banites not corrupted by the Far Realm part of Bane's Zhent faction could be interesting (Source: Chaos Scar adventures)
General Nentir Vale factions:
The Barrowhaunts are unfortunate waterdavian adventurers that didn't returned alive from their exploration of the Sword Barrow. Can be related with the Eminence of Araunt. (source: TtNV)
Bloodghost Syndicate: Expand their mafia operations to all cities in the North. Given their nature, they are Neverember's allies as well. (Source: Dragon 366)
Clan Bloodspear: Just another northern orc clan... (source: TtNV)
Cult of the Elder Elemental Eye: This cult can be replaced with the one from Princes of the Apocalipse. (source: Abyssal Plague novels)
Deep Guides: Local enough to get by with minor changes (source: Into the Unknown)
Dythan's Legion: Those dragonborn can be either from Tymanther or from Laerakond. Due to numbers and the region, it would be more logical if they came from Laerakond. Regardless, their background is the same: they are in the Nentir Vale for the Arkhosian ruins. (source: TtNV)
Frost Witches: Local enough. Can be connected to the cults of PotA. (source: TtNV)
Frostblood cult: Idem. (source: Dragon 421)
Gray Company: Make them a third, more powerful and organized faction of the Sons of Alagondar. (source: TtNV)
The Last Legion: Use the guidelines that are given in their Dragon 396 article.
The Phantom Brigade: The ghosts of the soldiers that died in the Mere of Dead Men. This gem can be used to expand the Eminence of Araunt influence in the region. (source: TtNV)
Order of Vigilance: Difficult to convert, as the Abyssal Plague appeared in the Realms for the first time in 1479. Can be related to Demascus and the events of the Sword of the Gods novels, but would be a new faction in the region, instead of their role in NV world (source: Abyssal Plague novels)
Raven Roost bandits: Generic, no need for changes. (source: TtNV)
Tigerclaw Barbarians: Use my background in this topic as a guideline for those. (source: TtNV)
White Lantern Consortium: A new trade consortium that came from the Feywild, but had the coin to become prominent in the region in a few years. They have trade routes in all cities of the North, and are allied with Neverember, but theirs is a strictly professional relationship, so the White Lantern can be allied of players that oppose Neverember as well. (source: Vor Rukoth sourcebook)
Winterguard: The last survivors of fallen Illyabruen. Those guys a living relic of that civilization. (source: Dragon 405)
The Wolf Runners: Local enough, no need for conversion. (source: TtNV) |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 24 Feb 2017 04:43:10 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2017 : 19:28:27
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Nice breakdown. 
I'm still working on the map - I had to re-do some of the forests yet again, because I had to expand the map. Just adding in hills, hills, and more hills {sigh}. I'm hoping to have another update within the next few days - RL is beating the heck out of me lately, and I have so little time to spare. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Mar 2017 19:31:50 |
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A Realmsian Nentir Vale chronicle
