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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker
Italy
82 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Jan 2017 : 10:36:51
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Fellow scribes,
I'm currently running a sequel to Legacy of the Crystal Shard.
My players are going to Luskan, starting from Icewind Dale, and I'm in need to gather as many info as possible.
Could you please help me?
I also need info on the Arcane Brotherhood. I found something on the campaign book of Murder in Baldur's gate.
The campaign is set during the Sundering, in the big chase /hunt for Chosens perpetrated by netherese and Thayans.
Could the Arcane Brotherhood be helping Thay in securing Chosens for Szass (mainly in the Sword Coast area) ? Is it plausible?
I read the info on Luskan & Arcane Brotherhood in SCAG and there I found those I believe are "inconsistencies".
They say that the Hosttower began regenerating... But we know that it was has been rebuilt by Jarlaxle, gromph , cattiebrie & Co.
But is it now in the hands of the Brotherhood?
I think it's unlikely that after all the trouble, Jarl & associates are willing to part from that rebuilt beauty (also given the reputation of the Arcane Brotherhood, their history with the Companions of the Hall and so on).
Also: is valindra shadowmantle strolling around? Who has Arklem Greeth's (surely misspelled) phylactery?
Thank you for your help
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Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.
===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! ===== |
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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker
Italy
82 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2017 : 16:32:35
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No info at all?
Oghma won't be pleased... |
Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.
===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! ===== |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2017 : 23:56:21
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Legacy of the Crystal Shard is set in 1485. It says that the Hosttower is still ruined at the time. The Homecoming trilogy is set during 1486/7. The SCAG is set in or shortly after 1489 DR. A heck of a lot can happen in the intervening time.
Valindra Shadowmantle is destroyed until another source says otherwise. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 13:58:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Portuguese D. Ace
I read the info on Luskan & Arcane Brotherhood in SCAG and there I found those I believe are "inconsistencies".
They say that the Hosttower began regenerating... But we know that it was has been rebuilt by Jarlaxle, gromph , cattiebrie & Co.
What inconsistency? A broken building was quickly repaired to be useful - and then it turns out that the tower slowly regrows the missing parts... and sheds and cracks the patches. Why not?
quote:
But is it now in the hands of the Brotherhood?
I think it's unlikely that after all the trouble, Jarl & associates are willing to part from that rebuilt beauty (also given the reputation of the Arcane Brotherhood, their history with the Companions of the Hall and so on).
Does anyone say they willing to part with it for free? Or that they gave it directly to the Arcane Brotherhood? 
And it could have become a liability, in several possible ways. The best use for some properties is to quickly palm them off on someone else for however much one's mad merchant skillz can squeeze out of the deal. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 17:34:27
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I think TBeholder has the right of it on this scroll, and it is up to Portuguese D. Ace to fill in the blanks to explain the transition of control of the HostTower... It actually sounds to me like a gift of a plot-hook for your players, to investigate the mystery surrounding the regeneration of the HostTower.
quote:
Originally posted by Portuguese D. Ace
Could the Arcane Brotherhood be helping Thay in securing Chosens for Szass (mainly in the Sword Coast area)? Is it plausible?
I tend to think it might be more plausible for the Arcane Brotherhood to align itself with Larloch creating a Western Lich versus Eastern Lich dynamic... This makes me think of an "enemy of my enemy is a friend" scenario regarding the Companions of the Hall & the Arcane Brotherhood. What if the two groups become temporary allies during the events of the Sundering to oppose Szass from securing Chosens and sinking his claws into the Sword Coast? |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
Edited by - Cyrinishad on 17 Jan 2017 17:35:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 17:45:37
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| But then you have to explore why Larloch, who has always been very independent (with regards to other groups), has chosen to ally with any one group against any other. And Larloch has, for his own reasons, dealt with Szass Tam in the past. |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 18:34:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But then you have to explore why Larloch, who has always been very independent (with regards to other groups), has chosen to ally with any one group against any other. And Larloch has, for his own reasons, dealt with Szass Tam in the past.
Well, I would imagine that any "alliance" that anyone enters into with Larloch would be more akin to them fooling themselves into thinking that they are allies when really they are just subjugating themselves to Larloch's will... just as I suspect that an "alliance" Szass would be a similarly unfortunate arrangement for the participants.
Also, since Larloch has dealt with Szass Tam in the past, if we operate under the presumption that they are rivals, it makes sense to me that both Larloch & Szass Tam would look for ways to indirectly oppose each other through Proxies. Similar to how the USA and the USSR would engage in conflict through Proxy Wars in order to avert direct confrontations. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
Edited by - Cyrinishad on 17 Jan 2017 18:35:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 18:51:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But then you have to explore why Larloch, who has always been very independent (with regards to other groups), has chosen to ally with any one group against any other. And Larloch has, for his own reasons, dealt with Szass Tam in the past.
Well, I would imagine that any "alliance" that anyone enters into with Larloch would be more akin to them fooling themselves into thinking that they are allies when really they are just subjugating themselves to Larloch's will... just as I suspect that an "alliance" Szass would be a similarly unfortunate arrangement for the participants.
Also, since Larloch has dealt with Szass Tam in the past, if we operate under the presumption that they are rivals, it makes sense to me that both Larloch & Szass Tam would look for ways to indirectly oppose each other through Proxies. Similar to how the USA and the USSR would engage in conflict through Proxy Wars in order to avert direct confrontations.
Szass Tam got artifacts from Larloch. I see no reason to assume rivalry... Especially since Szass Tam is so far beneath Larloch.
And before assuming alliance, there, keep in mind two things: Larloch is practically a force of nature, and the old line about fearing the Greeks, even when they bring gifts (a reference to the Trojan Horse). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 19:07:53
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I think Cyrinishad has the right of it. I certainly don't think Larloch and Tam were anywhere near 'friends' - just useful to each other at times.
Whereas Larloch likes being THE 'big bad' on the Sword Coast (barring Halaster, who's could go either way), he sure as hell doesn't want any competition in his stomping grounds (once again - he has enough to deal with with Halaster), and I could certainly see him surreptitiously throwing all sorts of things in Szass Tam's way (because the completion of Tam's 'Grand Scheme' may grant him more power than Larloch... and Larloch would be having NONE of that).
As to the question of 'allies' - I think it always works this way with 'the bad guys' - very temporary alliances with both sides expecting to back-stab - and be back-stabbed by - the other. Considering that everything in FR is 'shades of gray', I would bet most - if not all - the 'good guys' operate on a similar basis. The only (powerful) person I could see at least trying to stick to the spirit of an agreement would be Elminster, and even that is kinda 'iffy'. Khelben certainly wouldn't - he's always been willing to sacrifice others; he's more of a "the needs of the many out-weigh the needs of the few" kind of guy.
This is the crux of why I first switched from Greyhawk to the Realms - GH was always more two-dimensional. Everything is B&W. The good guys always do 'the right thing', and the bad guys are always evil, all the time. You can't have a Fzoul in GH (although we did have a Rary.. but he was an exception, and was really a 'bad guy' the whole time).
I picture Larloch standing over a chessboard (Sava board?), where all the pieces represent different factions in Faerūn. Szass Tam thinks he is another player on the other side of the board, but he's just a 'Queen' on Larloch's board. Even Elminster and Khelben have pieces (both of which were in the discard pile for awhile). The Sojourner could have been another player, but he wasn't around long enough, nor did he even care for the game itself. It makes you wonder who that other player really is, eh? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jan 2017 19:09:08 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 19:35:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Szass Tam got artifacts from Larloch. I see no reason to assume rivalry... Especially since Szass Tam is so far beneath Larloch.
And before assuming alliance, there, keep in mind two things: Larloch is practically a force of nature, and the old line about fearing the Greeks, even when they bring gifts (a reference to the Trojan Horse).
Wooly, this seems like you're agreeing with my hypothesis. Essentially, suggesting that since Larloch gave Tam an artifact it is actually proof that they are competitors (Trojan Horse)...
Also, since Larloch nearly rivals the gods in terms of power, this kind of rivalry between Larloch and Szass Tam suddenly makes Bane's deal with Szass Tam make more sense... Bane allowed Szass Tam to "summon" him and makes the deal for Szass Tam's soul, when in reality Bane realized Larloch has nearly accumulated enough power to become a threat to him, and so he brings Szass Tam on board as part of his efforts to counter Larloch. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2017 : 19:52:11
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I recall in one novel a Lord of Hell being afraid of Cyric (not in a 'cowering' kind of way, but rather a 'I have to go along with his plans because he could be trouble' sort of way). And this was inside Hell itself, where those lords 'rule supreme' (supposedly). Then we see someone like Szaas Tam summon Bane (which I agree he probably really wasn't 'summoned' nearly as much as Tam likes to believe), and we know that Szass Tam is afraid of Larloch (once again, not in a 'cowering' kind of way, but in a more intelligent, "he can hurt me" kind of way). In another novel we see Elminster summon - not request, not 'prey for' - literally SUMMON a god(dess). And we know El is very 'war' around Larloch. And then we know Larloch himself is wary when it comes to Halaster. And then you got guys like the summoner, who completely ignores the existence of all these uber-powerful people on Toril as f they were mere fleas to him.
You really have to love the 'game beyond the game' that goes on in The Forgotten Realms - I think thats why its become so much more than just a setting/fandom to so many of us. There are so many layers of power beyond what our characters deal with, everyday (as it should be). It reminds me of a Tommy lee Jones (Agent Kay) quote from Men in Black:
"There's always an Arquillian Battle Cruiser, or a Corillian Death Ray, or an intergalactic plague that is about to wipe out all life on this miserable little planet, and the only way these people can get on with their happy lives is that they DO NOT KNOW ABOUT IT! " |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Jan 2017 19:53:25 |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 06:39:01
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A couple of weeks late to this thread, but thought I'd add my 2cp after finishing "Hero". I'll put up a spoiler tag for those that haven't read the book yet.
Brief prehistory of the Tower:
-2103 DR: The human civilization of Illusk is crushed despite the aid of Jeriah Chronos the Chronomancer
-425: Netherese settlers refound Illusk as a magocracy. Fyrnran the Flamelord leads this Grand Cabal.
-354: The Netherese arcanist Melathlar raises the Hosttower
-335: Maerin of Illusk commissions the construction of Gauntlgrym. The primordial Maegera is bound using the power of the Hosttower around this time.
95: Uthgar raids Illusk, and the Grand Cabal retreats to the Hosttower, abandoning the city.
611: The Everhorde overruns Illusk, but the Hosttower survives.
806: Laeral, Queen of Stornanter, begins to resettle Illusk and explores the Hosttower. Finding lich survivors of the Grand Cabal, she erects magical barriers around it to bar entry.
1311: Arklem Greeth bypasses Laeral's wards and forms the Arcane Brotherhood with the help of the Grand Cabal liches. He makes himself "Archmage Arcane".
1376: Arklem Greeth blows up the Hosttower, which remains a ruin from this point forward. The Arcane Brotherhood is sundered and Greeth disappears. I believe his phylactery ends up in the hands of Jarlaxle, though I haven't read the Drizzt novels from this time.
1485: In Legacy of the Crystal Shard we see that the Arcane Brotherhood has reformed, but does not yet have an Archmage Arcane, and they do not yet reside in the Hosttower. Cashaan El Farid is one of 5 main wizards vying for influence in the group at this time. The adventure also notes that Valindra Shadowmantle has the phylactery of Arklem.
Spoiler (Neverwinter game):
14XX: In the Neverwinter game, Valindra Shadowmantle can be slain by Heroes of Neverwinter allied with rogue Red Wizards, including Rath Modar of Tyranny of Dragons fame. The fate of Arklem's phylactery is unknown.
Spoiler (Homecoming trilogy):
1486: Work begins on rebuilding the Hosttower in order to ensure that Maegera stays contained. The lead wizards in this are Cattie-Brie and Gromph, though many others are recruited to join them.
1488: Near the end of Hero, at the beginning of 1488, the Hosttower is said to be nearly complete. At this time, the wizards involved include Effron, Gromph, Avalyere, and "many other inhabitants". Penelope Harpell maintains a workshop there, and Drizzt himself describes it as "no threat, but a source of stability". By this time Cattie-Brie has left for Longsaddle, pregnant with Drizzt's child.
The SCAG is presumably set in either 1489 or 1490, and by this time the Arcane Brotherhood has taken over the Hosttower, and Cashaan the Red has become Archmage Arcane. All members of the Arcane Brotherhood are members mentioned in Legacy of the Crystal Shard or Rise of Tiamat, and none are from the Homecoming trilogy. So, the "re"builders of the Hosttower (Gromph, Avalyere, and co.) either departed once their job was done (that was what they were there to do, after-all), or they were forced out by the newcomers.
I'm inclined to guess that although some of the rebuilders would have left once the job was done (eg. potentially Avalyere), some would have stayed (eg. potentially Gromph), and the ultimate takeover of the Hosttower by the Arcane Brotherhood sometime in 1488 or 1489 would have been hostile in nature. Some of the wizards may have even joined the Brotherhood, while others would have been disgusted with them and departed. How the Brotherhood would assert their dominance is an interesting question however. My theory is that Cashaan has found a way to access the Grand Cabal (possibly through the spirit of Melathlar - this thread makes me believe George Krashos has an article out there about this, but I can't find it), and he subsequently finds a way to make the Hosttower a deathtrap for anyone who doesn't agree with him.
Either way, by 1491 (Storm King's Thunder) Jarlaxle is still in control of the city's Ships, and he and the Arcane Brotherhood are believed to operate entirely separately. Whether or not that stays the case remains to be seen. The stage is also set for the return of Arklem Greeth... |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
Edited by - KanzenAU on 03 Feb 2017 07:09:30 |
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Balmar Foghaven
Learned Scribe
Canada
124 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2020 : 16:26:52
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| I find it difficult to believe that Gromph Baenre would be easily ousted from a location he wanted to remain in, especially since he would not be allowed back into Menzoberranzan any time soon after the whole Demogorgon incident... unless the Grand Cabal was involved as KanzenAU suggested, I feel like Gromph would have been able to repel an invasion of "lesser" wizards (especially if he could requisition aid from Jarlaxle). However, the thought has crossed my mind that Gromph may have simply joined the Arcane Brotherhood or (and more likely) killed one of the high ranking ones - maybe even the archmage? - and took their place during the chaos. Whether or not he would be willing to maintain the illusion for such an extended period of time is another issue. |
"Despair not, for in the end all things shall work out for the best - in at least one timeline." |
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5e Luskan info, Arcane Brotherhood inconsistencies
