| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Oct 2016 : 19:06:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
quote:
Originally posted by tithas
quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
quote:
Originally posted by tithas
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
I feel the Drizzt books need to come to an end, too, I am just hoping for a happy ending, in part because it has been going on for so long. After all this time, I would hate for the end to leave a sour taste in my mouth.
I am not sure if Happy is the right word for the ending of Hero......
Fitting and deserving at least?
Kind of...if the books are done its a bad ending IMO. If not its epic.
I'm super worried now.
Depends. I'm a sucker for sappy emotional moments. This loads a lot of them towards the end. I think it's a good send off if this is it. And yes, it'll be freaken' epic if there's another novel. Honestly, I'd die for at least a short story if this is the last novel. |
 |
|
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2016 : 19:16:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Would you feel like saying what happened?
Not sure I should drop that huge of a bombshell given the novel isn't out yet. I can PM you if would like though. |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2016 : 19:31:32
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Would you feel like saying what happened?
Not sure I should drop that huge of a bombshell given the novel isn't out yet. I can PM you if would like though.
Sure, PM me if you don't mind. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Shadolan
Acolyte
29 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2016 : 19:53:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Would you feel like saying what happened?
Not sure I should drop that huge of a bombshell given the novel isn't out yet. I can PM you if would like though.
Can you PM me too about what happened with Arty? Did he get a well deserved happy ending with the girl he grew to love?
I really hope Dahlia stopped obsessing with Drizzt though... |
Edited by - Shadolan on 15 Oct 2016 19:53:50 |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2016 : 21:52:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
I mean honestly, I don't see how there could be any concern that it wouldn't be happily-ever-after for everyone. I'd love to believe that Bob is capable of something non-cliche, but he isn't. Sorry for the bluntness.
This I get. Part of me thinks Drizzt should "go down with the ship" fighting for what he believes in and still being rejected. A tragedy or some sorts would be fitting. Then again, hope for the better is a theme in RAS's writing.
After this long, I don't want a tragedy lol |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 01:50:08
|
| Drizzt doesn't die. Artemis is painted as ending up with the girl he loves but honestly, the whole Dahlia/Artemis relationship is very toxic. Dahlia asserting Artemis is the only one she loves and the only one she's ever loved rubbed me the wrong way. What about Effron? Plus, she clearly loved Drizzt. It's just manipulative and dirty, but I guess that's in character for her. I do like that Dahlia is more complex than the other female characters in the Drizzt books, but I really hate all the pigeonholing in an effort to happily ever after it all. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 02:15:12
|
| @Sno4wy: have you read it? |
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
Felix
Acolyte
Singapore
6 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 02:23:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Would you feel like saying what happened?
Not sure I should drop that huge of a bombshell given the novel isn't out yet. I can PM you if would like though.
Send me a PM as well. |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 02:55:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@Sno4wy: have you read it?
Yes, I have the ARC as well. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 02:59:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
@Sno4wy: have you read it?
Yes, I have the ARC as well.
Ah, I didn't realize. Thank you. Personally, I would have been deveststed if it hadn't been a happy ending, though I am a sap lol. But after journeying with these books for so long, in spite of the issues I have had with certain aspects, I would hope that after this long, it would be a happy ending. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 16 Oct 2016 03:02:24 |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 03:03:22
|
| I totally understand where you're coming from. I think that's a very fair stance to take. I'm just bitter and jaded, lol. :P |
|
|
|
Shadolan
Acolyte
29 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 04:25:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
Drizzt doesn't die. Artemis is painted as ending up with the girl he loves but honestly, the whole Dahlia/Artemis relationship is very toxic. Dahlia asserting Artemis is the only one she loves and the only one she's ever loved rubbed me the wrong way. What about Effron? Plus, she clearly loved Drizzt. It's just manipulative and dirty, but I guess that's in character for her. I do like that Dahlia is more complex than the other female characters in the Drizzt books, but I really hate all the pigeonholing in an effort to happily ever after it all.
Well, I think it would be far worse if Arty simply was left sad and pointlessly pining over a girl that keeps nagging Drizzt who already is in a relationship and finds it more annoying than anything. Kinda as if Wulfgar decided to keep Catti know how he will never let it go while being given a facepalmish look.
Dunno if Dahlia is the best Arty could get but at least she can find some common ground with him due to a somewhat similar backstory. Would a 100% good girl like Catti be better for him? I think such contrasting characters would be more likely to clash actually.
The thing about Dahlia is that it felt like she was being possessive towards both Drizzt and Arty while being in love with both but its good that this love triangle finally gets some sort of resolution. Too bad for her she couldn't have them both lol. Despite all my dislike towards Dahlia in all of this, I kinda feel some mercy towards the crazy chick despite myself, as RAS did make her go through some pretty awful stuff. Stuff that I do not ever see Catti going through.
Entreri of all people in RAS stories likely had the most messed up life with tons of crap happening to him in some way or another. Having him be unhappy and still living an empty life unable to find neither happiness nor purpose in life while Drizzt gets everything he wanted (and more) for being a good boy all along would sound as if the moral of the story was "Don't ever be anything less than good or you are screwed forever regardless of whether you try to become a better person or not".
Though not all characters(including the good guys) get happy endings in RAS books. Cadderly's fate was quite depressing as was Deudermon't. I feared how Arty would never know a break nor a happy ending tbh.
Thanks for clearing that up. :) |
Edited by - Shadolan on 16 Oct 2016 04:59:00 |
|
|
|
Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 05:13:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Would you feel like saying what happened?
Not sure I should drop that huge of a bombshell given the novel isn't out yet. I can PM you if would like though.
I'd like a PM as well if it's no trouble. Thanks |
|
|
|
DandelionClock
Seeker
67 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 12:46:16
|
| Oh, me too - if it's no bother!!!! - I'd like to know, in particular, what happens to the temporary companions - Afafrenfere, Effron, Amber - since I never saw much of a danger the other's stories would not be resolved or end up wrapped up in two sentences. |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 15:13:42
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shadolan
Well, I think it would be far worse if Arty simply was left sad and pointlessly pining over a girl that keeps nagging Drizzt who already is in a relationship and finds it more annoying than anything. Kinda as if Wulfgar decided to keep Catti know how he will never let it go while being given a facepalmish look.
Dunno if Dahlia is the best Arty could get but at least she can find some common ground with him due to a somewhat similar backstory. Would a 100% good girl like Catti be better for him? I think such contrasting characters would be more likely to clash actually.
I understand what you're saying, and even agree to an extent, definitely regarding the part about Catti. However, I feel that our romantic involvements don't define us, and there are people out there that'd be perfectly happy without being in a relationship. Furthermore, relationships don't fix all of us, not to mention that the wrong kind of romantic relationship, like the one with Dahlia, could very well end up doing more damage in the end. I believe Artemis is one such person. Sure, he'd be hurt, and affected by the sadness for a good long while, but I think he'd be more or less ok on his own. I think a healthy friendship with someone who gets him rather than trying to bend him into something they see as ideal would do him a lot better than a relationship.
Tbh, I think it would've been better if Dahlia died. Despite what she claimed, I think the reality to her character would be that she'd still have been pining over Drizzt, and have a lot of trouble staying loyal to Artemis because she fundamentally doesn't know what she wants. Neither does Artemis, but he's a lot further down the road than Dahlia is. What I see happening to their relationship is like what is finally covered regarding what happened with Calihye -- after maybe a couple of years, Artemis will drift away from Dahlia because they're at very different stages of life. Nonetheless, that path would cause a lot more pain for Arte in the long run.
quote:
Originally posted by ShadolanEntreri of all people in RAS stories likely had the most messed up life with tons of crap happening to him in some way or another. Having him be unhappy and still living an empty life unable to find neither happiness nor purpose in life while Drizzt gets everything he wanted (and more) for being a good boy all along would sound as if the moral of the story was "Don't ever be anything less than good or you are screwed forever regardless of whether you try to become a better person or not".
Agreed. Entreri, I'd even argue, had it harder than Drizzt. Sure, Drizzt lived in a dystopian society, but he always had at least one shining beacon to guide him through. There was Zak, who loved him unconditionally, and then there was Gwen, always at his side, so much so that she shattered magical constraints that are supposed to be absolute. I personally find that pretty lame and one of the many traits that make Drizzt a Gary Stu, but whatever, it is what it is. Artemis, on the other hand, didn't have that, and stilled walked a very dark path. Was his world darker than Drizzt's? Maybe, maybe not, it's really hard to say. However, it's about the relative darkness, which is so much deeper when one does not have a guiding light.
I would argue that the way that Bob forced Artemis to walk the path of redemption does, in fact, drive home the moral that one can't expect to find happiness without conforming to societal expectations, of being good and the like. The thing is, many people are troubled or traumatized, and they can't do that. I'm not saying that it's ok for these people to go out and kill other people or commit crimes of other natures, but there needs to be the understanding that everyone needs to be able to cope their own way. I've always hated Drizzt for how invalidating he's always been towards Artemis. He's never bothered to get to know the man, only basing his judgments on his assumptions and surface observations, and in the end he's all like, "Yay Artemis has become what I'd always hoped!!" It's vapid and stupid. At least Jarlaxle, for all of his proclivities towards manipulating others, at least sincerely tried to figure out who Artemis is and what were the things driving and torturing him.
TL;DR version for that last paragraph: Not all people can be bent to follow Drizzt's path. If that's the definition of "redemption", as it seems to be what Bob's writing says, it's invalidating a whole bunch of people and, honestly, ruins Artemis and his journey by making it into a tired and overdone cliche.
quote:
Originally posted by Shadolan
Though not all characters(including the good guys) get happy endings in RAS books. Cadderly's fate was quite depressing as was Deudermon't. I feared how Arty would never know a break nor a happy ending tbh.
I suppose I have to give Bob some credit for Cadderly and Deudermont. I thought Cadderly's fate was ok, fitting for what he stood for, as was Deudermont's. I guess I've never felt either of them were really tragic, because Cadderly got elevated to demi-god level by being able to singlehandedly restrain a creature that attained ridiculous power levels. I guess each person's interpretation and takeaway is different. For me, if I were a character in a fantasy novel, I'd rather "live" on eternally ensuring that the goal I sacrificed everything for is forever kept. And Deudermont's sacrifice was elevated to be *the turning point* to which Luskan fell to squalor. Is it so bad to trade one's life to be immortalized in one's world's history? I don't think so, but again, everyone's mileage varies. I believe it's better to live a shorter but distinguished life than a long and insignificant one. |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 15:22:13
|
I'm going to drop the bombshell on the ending. I guess it's "huge" from the I can't believe he did that perspective. I don't think it was necessary, I mean Drizzt already got his happy ending, but I guess the golden boy has to have everything.
In other words...
Zaknafein comes back. He's fully back to life. The book ends with Yvonnel ushering him into Jarlaxle's office, Jarlaxle leaping over his desk and knocking all of his stuff flying to wrap Zaknafein in a big hug, as well as the assertion that Zaknafein is the only person Jarlaxle's ever trusted (*eyeroll at yet another questionable absolute, which seems to be a common theme in Hero*), Zaknafein saying he wants to see his son, and Jarlaxle saying that he'd be proud. THE END.
And this, lady and gents, is why it wouldn't have mattered even if Drizzt did die. If his dad who died, got zin-carla'd, then dissolved his body COMPLETELY in acid can come back alive, well, and 100% whole, then death fundamentally doesn't matter when it comes to RAS.
|
Edited by - sno4wy on 16 Oct 2016 16:02:02 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 15:46:44
|
| What about that "redeeming Lolth" thingy? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 16 Oct 2016 15:48:13 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 15:52:35
|
| Btw, you can hide spoilers with ["spoiler"]["/spoiler"] w/o commas. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 15:59:14
|
Thanks Irennan, I went back and implemented that. :D
In regards to your question, spoiler alert again.
Lolth tempts Drizzt with returning Zak to him, but Drizzt refutes her. Near the end, some of the other characters discuss how Drizzt seeks to redeem Lolth, and as one of them questions the feasibility of this course, we're answered by the unconditional return of Zak, whole and healthy.
Take from it what you will, but given how Bob explicitly feels about Eilistraee, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a last-ditch effort to negate her and everything she stands for. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:13:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
I'm going to drop the bombshell on the ending. I guess it's "huge" from the I can't believe he did that perspective. I don't think it was necessary, I mean Drizzt already got his happy ending, but I guess the golden boy has to have everything.
In other words...
Zaknafein comes back. He's fully back to life. The book ends with Yvonnel ushering him into Jarlaxle's office, Jarlaxle leaping over his desk and knocking all of his stuff flying to wrap Zaknafein in a big hug, as well as the assertion that Zaknafein is the only person Jarlaxle's ever trusted (*eyeroll at yet another questionable absolute, which seems to be a common theme in Hero*), Zaknafein saying he wants to see his son, and Jarlaxle saying that he'd be proud. THE END.
And this, lady and gents, is why it wouldn't have mattered even if Drizzt did die. If his dad who died, got zin-carla'd, then dissolved his body COMPLETELY in acid can come back alive, well, and 100% whole, then death fundamentally doesn't matter when it comes to RAS.
Erm...in all honesty, that just made me SO happy. Omg! I am actually really excited now lol. I asked Bob once if he was going to do this. Guess he did. That makes me happy. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 16 Oct 2016 16:23:56 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:19:39
|
quote:
Take from it what you will, but given how Bob explicitly feels about Eilistraee, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a last-ditch effort to negate her and everything she stands for.
Ah, I see. While I think that it's OOC for Lolth, who just revels in suffering and misery, and whose chaos isn't actual chaos but just strife, I was thinking that RAS had it more direct and explicit. Given what I read that RAS said about Eilistraee, I wouldn't exclude what you said. But IMO it doesn't come close to achieving that. Because, while Eilistraee is big on choice and redemption, that's not her only major theme; and because Lolth is clearly not going to stop tormenting the drow (and with Lolth's being Lolth, there could be some sinister purpose in bringing Zak back).
Although I can see what you mean. When Drizzt, who even despises/d his people, apparently grabs Eilistraee's goal and succeeds at changing Lolth, while not even Eilistraee, Lolth's own daughter, stands any chance. But hey, I'm used to that. From what I can see, since late 3e, WotC has really been enjoying to downplay or cheapen anything drow that isn't Lolth or RAS' work. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 16 Oct 2016 16:30:07 |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:21:31
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Erm...in all honesty, that just made me SO happy. Omg! I am actually really excited now lol.
*shrug* I really liked Zaknafein at one point, but then over time I just realized that he never had much dimension to his character. I mean, what's there to his personality other than that he as the first representation in Bob's books of what most male drow in a Lolthite society felt like? Oh, and his love for his son, I suppose... but other than that, I felt he was quite bland. I could never understood why people were as into him as they were.
Bob's books have always been inconsistent, but those issues have gotten big and just world-breakingly glaring now. Bob explicitly said that Lolth didn't have Zak, which begged the question of, well, who did? Especially since Mielikki hadn't entered the picture yet and Bob refuses to acknowledge Eilistraee. But now, Lolth is the one to return Zak, so... in the end, she had him all along? Wut?
My head is one big spinning jumbled mess in regards to Bob's books. I'm really honestly glad that there will be no more Drizzt, hopefully not anyway, even if that doesn't bode well for the FR novel line. |
|
|
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:31:23
|
This does beg the question though : Zak's spirit once told Drizzt he was in a "good place", and that certainly wouldn't be Lolth's realm. But if it was Lolth who brought him back, that would suggest he was in the Abyss . I am happy about this,I have to say. But I don't like the possibility it negates Eilistraee. That's probably the only thing I would be miffed about in regards to this whole thing.
|
Sweet water and light laughter |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:32:52
|
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
This does beg the question though : Zak's spirit once told Drizzt he was in a "good place", and that certainly wouldn't be Lolth's realm. But if it was Lolth who brought him back, that would suggest he was in the Abyss .
Exactly as you point out. This is why I said the inconsistencies that have become standard in RAS' Drizzt books has reached world-breaking levels.
Edit: But you know, maybe it is as Irennan said, that Lolth had some sinister purpose in giving Zak back. Maybe it isn't really Zak, because I can't imagine even devout drow describing the Abyss as a good place. Demons, maybe, and some other beings... but anyway, maybe it's a fake Zak there to catch Drizzt unaware only to stab him in the face. :P That'd make me laugh, honestly, but then again, as I've said, Bob's books have made me bitter, cynical and jaded. ;P |
Edited by - sno4wy on 16 Oct 2016 16:37:04 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:38:26
|
| The only other possibility is that Zak lied when he said that he was in a good place, in order to not make Drizzt feel bad. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:41:16
|
| Btw, @CD didn't RAS once tell you that Zak was in Green Fields? Lol |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:44:21
|
Wait, why would Zak be in the Green Fields? O_o I mean, why would *any* drow not affiliated with halflings be in the Green Fields other than that time Gromph ended up there as a fluke?
*massages head* Owww.... |
Edited by - sno4wy on 16 Oct 2016 16:44:42 |
|
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:49:46
|
Idk about that.
In any case, re: value of death for RAS. To be fair, death has become meaningless in the Realms as a whole. The whole metaplot has become meaningless, and it can hardly be taken seriously anymore. It's so very comic book-ish. But then, that's the result of WotC's making deaths meaningless and forced in first place, by blowing up stuff because of fireworks, or because they didn't like a given thing so it had to be destroyed. So, w/e I guess
Although unlike many other deaths forced by WotC's little hand, Zak's wasn't, and it was a good sacrifice. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 16 Oct 2016 16:50:19 |
|
|
|
sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:53:19
|
| Well, death as a whole in a magic-laden world shouldn't be a big deal. I don't know why Bob has always treated it like it is in our world, instead of just accepting the non-absolutism of it. I mean, that's handled in stride in other realms books. It should be a casual thing, like in one Brimstone Angels book, a servant got caught in a crossfire and died, and Farideh offers to pay for his resurrection because it was due to her own carelessness that he died. No big deal. Kemp examines the implications of resurrection some in Erevis Cale regarding Jak Fleet, but again, that should be how it is. Meanwhile, in Drizzt's corner of the realms, there's this inconsistency where it's just like death is a big deal in a world where it really isn't. |
Edited by - sno4wy on 16 Oct 2016 16:53:57 |
|
|
|
Shadolan
Acolyte
29 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2016 : 16:55:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
[quote][i]
I understand what you're saying, and even agree to an extent, definitely regarding the part about Catti. However, I feel that our romantic involvements don't define us, and there are people out there that'd be perfectly happy without being in a relationship. Furthermore, relationships don't fix all of us, not to mention that the wrong kind of romantic relationship, like the one with Dahlia, could very well end up doing more damage in the end. I believe Artemis is one such person. Sure, he'd be hurt, and affected by the sadness for a good long while, but I think he'd be more or less ok on his own. I think a healthy friendship with someone who gets him rather than trying to bend him into something they see as ideal would do him a lot better than a relationship.
Tbh, I think it would've been better if Dahlia died. Despite what she claimed, I think the reality to her character would be that she'd still have been pining over Drizzt, and have a lot of trouble staying loyal to Artemis because she fundamentally doesn't know what she wants. Neither does Artemis, but he's a lot further down the road than Dahlia is. What I see happening to their relationship is like what is finally covered regarding what happened with Calihye -- after maybe a couple of years, Artemis will drift away from Dahlia because they're at very different stages of life. Nonetheless, that path would cause a lot more pain for Arte in the long run.
Its certainly true that relationships can cause more bad than good. Even Drizzt and Catti did go through some drama regarding whether they should have kids given Drizzt's heritage or not since those kids may not be accepted by those who haven't heard about Drizzt. Or the issue of whether Drizzt will be able to move on or be happy once Catti inevitably dies before him. Drizzt angsting over the Neverwinter Saga did show how love can lead to plenty of pain. And of course we also had before that the Drizzt/Catti/Wulfgar love triangle with the former two not knowing how should they act given their respect for Wulfgar.
When it comes to Artemis I think the guy actually knows what he wants. He likely always knew but simply chose not to acknowledge it and keep his real feelings hidden. The problem with Artemis was his distrust in others and his fear of being betrayed as it happened to him numerous times in the past. With his mother being the number 1 example. Still, I'm sure that deep down he desired to have someone by his side. Someone whom he could trust and could share both good and bad moments. The closest before to that was Dwahwel whom Arty truly seemed to consider his one true friend. Jarlaxle on the other hand despite his charm and friendly nature is the type of guy who lets the thrill and greed take over his more positive qualities and does not worry that he may bring ruin upon those who get caught in his deadly games. That is why I do not see him as a true friend of Arty.
Now when it comes to relationships I think Arty greatly improved in that regard since Calihye. In the Last Threshold and more so in the Night of the Hunter Arty proved capable of being quite perceptive when it comes to Dhalia's feelings and surprised her several times by pointing things that she was hiding or was unwilling to admit. One of my favorite moments was how Arty in NotH was actually able to realize Dahlia's "death game" and point out her desire to be killed by a perfect lover who will free her of her pain. By the end of said conversation he had Dahlia realizing that she does not really want Drizzt dead and even apologizing for her selfish behavior. Drizzt in contrast due to his inexperience in relationships couldn't understand Dahlia's feelings at all and did make her angry over and over with Arty himself pointing on one of those occasions how foolish Drizzt can be in that regard if he keeps trying to calm an enraged Dahlia despite not even knowing why she is angry in the first place.
I think it shows how all those years did make Arty acquire much more emotional intelligence and insight when it comes to relationships in contrast to how he couldn't read Calihye's feelings at all and actually committed similar mistakes as Drizzt himself by wanting to abandon her first for her sake while not understanding how truly she felt. Being skilled at reading your partner's emotions correctly is IMO one of the key aspects in having a successful relationship.
As for Dahlia herself she is still a brat. Only 50 years old so around the age Drizzt was when he barely left the underdark. She is far more experienced when it comes to seeing all the uglier sides of life which makes her "life hardened". Emotionally however she is still little more than a girl. A girl that was raped at a very young age, believed herself to have committed child killing and was obsessed in dying at the hands of the right guy. Later on it only got uglier with Lloth and an Illithid messing with her mind to the point of making her truly little more than a vegetable.
IMO Dahlia did not love Drizzt in the sense that one loves someone whom they truly understand but rather in the way someone admires an idol or a celebrity. Dahlia not unlike Arty respected Drizzt a lot for him being able to stay true his ideals despite facing the darkness of life unlike herself. In Drizzt she also saw the perfect lover to grant her peace. Alas they were quite incompatible due to their vastly different moral compasses, goals and temperaments. There was also the matter of pride as she hated losing to a "ghost".
Regarding Artemis I think Dahlia for a long time did not realize that she came to love him. Her jealousy moments were likely something she herself did not understand. In the Last Threshold there is a moment when Dahlia realizes to her surprise that if Arty won't be aboard for the return journey from Baldurs Gate then neither would she. Or how in NotH she was clinging to Drizzt's image when under Llolth's control but was surprised that the image of the person she cared the most turned out to be Arty.
Arty's strength is that he already got some experience with emotionally scarred women and is quite wise and mature with almost 200 years of experience under his belt. Is Dahlia worth the effort? Maybe yes or maybe not but it shows a lot about Arty how he is now able to risk emotional hurting for the sake of someone he cares about. He was shown even capable of risking his life for Afarenfere before so its not just romance for him but a discovery of the importance of friendship and trust itself. Even if he does not become a paladin(lol) I think he will be able to enjoy his life much more than when he was hiding from all bonds which he believed were just a weakness that would leave him hurt or dead.
Damn, I wrote too much lol. |
Edited by - Shadolan on 16 Oct 2016 17:00:19 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Hero [Spoilers]
