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Jamey
Acolyte
Canada
7 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Mar 2004 : 16:55:35
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Hail!
In my campaign Hluthvar (along with Hill's Edge and Corm Orp and the western Tunlands) was recently overrun by a horde of lesser undead; with some assistance from a dragon. I'm curious to know what folk think of the importance of Hluthvar to the faith of Helm?
Do you think that it is in any wise important enough for the Chionthar Helmites to crusade for it's reclaimation? Would the Helmites of the year 1372 DR even have the resources for such an undertaking?
On the same note, the forces of the Berduskan-Iriaebian Alliance have slowly clued in over the past year that the Darkhold was wrenched from Zhentarim grasp and taken over as well; though this has yet to be confirmed. As a result of a raid on Iriaebor that included 3 dragons and a horde of "winged demons", the Alliance has begun to suspect the Cult of Tiamat ... which was supposedly destroyed by the Harpers but two years ago in the Battle of the Bones.
And it has not been confined to the Sunrise Vale either, but has also touched the Tunlands. And not only this, but in my campaign the dragon Navalara and her minions are also part of this and have wrought a simliar chaos in Cormyr. AND ALSO, the attack that destroyed Tilverton was conducted by the CoT in my campagin; in fact survivors speak of a immense five headed dragon leading the assualt.
What I am curious about here is the reaction of neighbouring city-states and nations to these goings on. Any thoughts? Any opinions?
Frith!
Jamey
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 00:52:48
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| Jamey, about your question about the Helmites taking back Hluthvar, yes they do have the resources. The Helmites have somewhat recovered since the Times of Trouble and the church is getting stronger again. However, it would be a big risk for Helm's church to conduct this crusade by themselves so they probably have allies along, such as Tormites (who will gladly join this campaign) and maybe even some followers of Tyr. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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Darth KTrava
Learned Scribe
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 01:28:49
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I dunno about that.... with the "bit of separation" of beliefs between the churches of Helm and Torm, it'd be kinda hard to get the Tormites (never did like that term...makes me wanna call Terminex on them....  ) to go along with them on any sort of crusade or such as both sides don't really get along too well.
After all, when my cleric of Torm was told that there were Helmites in the area, she just rolled her eyes and muttered, "Helmites" with that bit of "what good are they?" attitude. |
Evil will be dealt with swiftly as it is my duty to remove such evil from my presence.
-Rozhena, Cleric/Divine Champion of Torm |
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Jamey
Acolyte
Canada
7 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2004 : 03:30:13
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Hail!
quote:
Originally posted by Darth KTrava
I dunno about that.... with the "bit of separation" of beliefs between the churches of Helm and Torm, it'd be kinda hard to get the Tormites (never did like that term...makes me wanna call Terminex on them.... ) to go along with them on any sort of crusade or such as both sides don't really get along too well.
After all, when my cleric of Torm was told that there were Helmites in the area, she just rolled her eyes and muttered, "Helmites" with that bit of "what good are they?" attitude.
You got me thinking of a PC in my game, Herodyn, who was a the son of a Tormite. His father had moved to Hluthvar and settled there before Herodyn's birth. Growing up, he was often picked on by his peers as a result of his father's faith, and so eventually came to reject it and seek service with the local temple of Helm. Not long after came the Time of Troubles, which rubbed Herodyn's awakening moral conscience the wrong way ... as it did with many others across Faerun-North. And then came the creeping insanity of the High-Watcher Maurandyr of Hluthvar, who had long served Hluthvar against the threat from Darkhold.
As a result of the questions and the omens, Herodyn never completed his training as a holy warrior and reclaimed the humble faith of his father.
Eventually, Maurandyr tore out the eye of a young altar-boy during a sermon display it as the "All-Seeing Eye of Helm" for dramamtic effect. After this, the Helmites lost a great deal of support from the locals, who elected War-Captain Fyroth as their new Lord. The new High-Watcher of Hluthvar was one Virgil the Vigilant, who saw Fyroth as a strong and capable, if not benevolent, leader.
Anyway, my point in all of this (other than to ramble) is to perhpas demonstrate one of the fundamental differences (in my mind) between a Helmite and a Tormite. Aye, both embrace law, a structured approach to life, and duty, but benevolence is not necessarily any great issue to a Helmite ... as demonstrated by his neutral disposition in regards to law. For a Helmite service is first, law is first. In contrast, it is the opposite with the Tormite, who does see service and duty and law and honour as the very stuff of life ... but who judges the quality of the law based upon the well-being of the population. For a Tormite, people come first. In order to preserve honour, one must sometimes sacrifice even their own good name.
Thus, why, in my mind, the faiths of Torm and Helm would have a great deal of difficulty ever cooperating. Of course, Tormites are required to some extent to show tolerance and aid other faiths.
Frith!
Jamey
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2004 : 09:45:58
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Well, I am a bit biased on the whole Helm bashing issue. One of my first and favorite realms characters was a LG priest of Helm from Hluthvar. The campaign went through the time of troubles and ended shortly thereafter, but he remains one of my favorites.
In my mind Helm and his followers have gotten a bad rap in the literature of the realms. First he was blamed for his action in the time of troubles. But being that his clerics would have retained their portfolio powers, I think that many would have turned to the church for healing and aid.
Then the whole Maztica saga/travesty.
And if that was not bad enough Desther Indelayne gives the church even more of a bad rep when he corrupts Helm’s Hold (Neverwinter Nights).
From most of the literature I see, clerics of Helm are often portrayed as these lawful neutral bastions of duty when in fact duty is not really Helm’s portfolio, but in fact Torm’s.
In my mind Helm is the God of guardians. His portfolio is guardians and protection, and as such being a guard and protector is his prime responsibility (and thus the prime duty of his follows, be they clerics, paladins, monks or laymen). Not being part of the duty and loyalty portfolio, I see Helmites as being far more flexible than a follower of Torm. Perhaps their given task is to guard a person from being assassinated, but later learn that the person behind the assassin is the liege lord of their city. In my mind the cleric of helm would have no dilemma protecting the person and even rooting out and stopping the cause (the lord). But a cleric of Torm who is bound to the portfolio of duty and loyalty would suddenly come into conflict with such actions.
One of the novels (Thornhold) dealt with the issue of supposedly LG paladins following “duty” too closely to tragic results. I see this happening more frequently with followers of Torm, than with followers of Helm.
Also regarding Maurandyr tearing out the eye of a young altar-boy during a sermon display it as the "All-Seeing Eye of Helm", nice plot usage, but I would think that anyone who is a true follower of Helm (and not a Beholder cultist) would realize he was gravely insane. I am curious, What was Helm's reaction to the whole event? It is stated that Helm has a fondness for children and is lenient on their infractions more than any other. Thus to me such would hold true among his faithful as well and any act like the one demonstrated would be seen as clear heresy.
Of course the great thing about D&D is that no one interpretation is right or wrong. We all have our own worlds to play in, but it is nice to see how others view Helm and his followers, and has given me a few ideas to play with.
just my thoughts ;) |
Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Chyron
Learned Scribe
Hong Kong
279 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2004 : 10:13:04
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Jamey,
Not to disagree with DDH_101, but I would say that the Church of Helm would likely not have the resources to fully recover Hluthvar without aid. (Although I think they certainly would try). My reasoning is based on all the bad events that have damaged the reputation of the church since the time of troubles. Plus losing yet another key city and temple complex would likely tarnish the rep of the god of guardians even further.
I do agree with DDH_101 that some help would come from the church of Torm. But I doubt that any would come from Cormyr if you have followed the events of Death of the Dragon in your campaign. I think they lost far too many men to do anything but try and hold their own borders at this point. If the Zhents have truly lost Darkhold, then they may even work behind the scenes to grant some aid to try and get a foothold back in the area (agents and such), so they could be staged to retake Darkhold one the treaty with the Alliance ends. (The old enemy of my enemy is my friend theme).
With Hill’s Edge, and Corm Orp also overrun, the displacement of those residents would certainly cause a sympathetic ear to some other good churches that have followers in those areas, and perhaps the church of Lathlander would lend aid upon reports of the lesser undead now occupying the towns.
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Just My Thoughts
Chyron :)
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Hluthvar and Helmites and the ... end of the world
