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Originally posted by George Krashos

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Originally posted by Seethyr

What race/region do you think would make for the best imitation of Lovecraft's Shadow over Innsmouth? I'm playing with the idea of surprising my players.

Here are my thoughts...

1. The Kuo-Toa look the most like the Deep Ones, but I don't know if they are quite Cthulu-esque enough...

2. The Shalarin in the Sea of Corynactis already worship Dagon, but geographically they aren't close enough to mainland Faerun to allow for an Innsmouth type town (maybe set it in Maztica?)

How could I adapt the Innsmouth look then to the town's inhabitants? Interbreeding doesn't really seem to be an option. (should I use the magical experimentation handwave?)

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Two words: Undersea Illithids.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by sleyvas

I like where you're going with the cataloguing what might be related to the batrachi and what they created. I think that the idea of a "Serpent Kingdoms" type supplement, but for what the Batrachi created, could prove to be a very interesting thing indeed. I venture that Tako, Krakens, bullywugs, dopplegangers, locathah, sivs, grippli, kopru, Slaad, froghemoths, and Kuo-Toa MAY have all come from the Batrachi civilization.

Similarly, the question of the Aearee civilization would be interesting to see some expounding upon. Especially given that we know that reptilian beings with feathers may have had ties to the Aeree. They also created the wyverns. I'd venture that Couatls may have come from the Aearee, and that Maztica may have held a large Aearee culture. Of course, we all believe that aarakocra and kenku came from the Aearee, but what about various winged reptilian races (besides draconic ones like dragonborn). . Raptorans from races of the wild would also fit. Also, more bestial creatures such as giant owls, giant eagles, rocs, etc.... might they have ties to the Aearee?

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Originally posted by sleyvas

I like where you're going with the cataloguing what might be related to the batrachi and what they created. I think that the idea of a "Serpent Kingdoms" type supplement, but for what the Batrachi created, could prove to be a very interesting thing indeed. I venture that Tako, Krakens, bullywugs, dopplegangers, locathah, sivs, grippli, kopru, Slaad, froghemoths, and Kuo-Toa MAY have all come from the Batrachi civilization.

Similarly, the question of the Aearee civilization would be interesting to see some expounding upon. Especially given that we know that reptilian beings with feathers may have had ties to the Aeree. They also created the wyverns. I'd venture that Couatls may have come from the Aearee, and that Maztica may have held a large Aearee culture. Of course, we all believe that aarakocra and kenku came from the Aearee, but what about various winged reptilian races (besides draconic ones like dragonborn). . Raptorans from races of the wild would also fit. Also, more bestial creatures such as giant owls, giant eagles, rocs, etc.... might they have ties to the Aearee?

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Originally posted by Wrigley

In my take of the realms Batrachi are collective name for all those water-based creatures where most known are Batrachi lords from their campaign on land who later became Slaadi and bullywug who venerated Ramenos. More water-dependant batrachi remained undisputed rulers over the seas and remain until this day mostly unknown by humans. Another well known example are Ilithids who were tasked with conquering Astral plane. Their Infinite Empire fell under rebellion of their human slaves that were transformed by their living in astral sea to race now known as Giths. Most terrible creatures spawned by batrachi were Phaerim used originaly as weapon against Fey but also used to fight Sarrukh later on in the same area.

Regarding Aearee I really like that thread by Gray (link in post above) and in my realms their biggest legacy are planar angelic beings and of course all bird-like creatures on Faerun.

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Originally posted by Baltas

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Originally posted by Wrigley

In my take of the realms Batrachi are collective name for all those water-based creatures where most known are Batrachi lords from their campaign on land who later became Slaadi and bullywug who venerated Ramenos. More water-dependant batrachi remained undisputed rulers over the seas and remain until this day mostly unknown by humans. Another well known example are Ilithids who were tasked with conquering Astral plane. Their Infinite Empire fell under rebellion of their human slaves that were transformed by their living in astral sea to race now known as Giths. Most terrible creatures spawned by batrachi were Phaerim used originaly as weapon against Fey but also used to fight Sarrukh later on in the same area.

Regarding Aearee I really like that thread by Gray (link in post above) and in my realms their biggest legacy are planar angelic beings and of course all bird-like creatures on Faerun.

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I think that angelic beings are at least partly created by, or connected to Sarrukh. Jazirian is connected to 7 Heavens of Celestia, and portrayed as the opposite of Asmodeus, and Seraphs, highest angels in mythos are flamming serpents.

I guess possibly angels/celestials were a co-creation of good aligned aearee and Coalts(transformed good Sarrukh).

Also, I see you also believe the theory Batrachi are connected to Ilithids.

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Originally posted by Wrigley

It seems to me like we are highjacking this thread a little :-)

Ilithids are batrachi in my book.
Jazirian is former Aearee god who moved to sarrukh pantheon, mated with Shekinester and is father of Parrafaire (idea based on Monster Mythology p.97).
Actualy I have based all four creator races as planars that settled Faerun. Batrachi=Abyss, Sarrukh=Baator (no Nine hells at that time), Aearee=Celestia, Fey=Beastlands/Arborea
Batrachi are remembered as Obyriths in Abyss and some Sarrukh gods still rule in Nine Hells...

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Of all the emergent aspects of the Great Scaled One, two deities in particular attracted the worship of most nagas: Ssharstrune and Shekinester. The former embodied the principles of curiosity, destruction, and possessiveness that had precipitated the World Serpent’s fragmentation. The latter, known as the Naga Queen, became the keeper of the knowledge and wisdom originally held by the World Serpent, preserved within the eternal flame that she guarded.

After the fall of Mhairshaulk, both Ssharstrune and Jazirian, another fragment of the World Serpent, began to court Shekinester. The Naga Queen eventually chose Jazirian and became pregnant by him. Enraged by this decision, Ssharstrune attacked Shekinester, and she was forced to swallow him. In so doing, the Naga Queen took into herself the same destructive element that had fragmented the World Serpent in the first place. As a result, she acquired five guises: the Acquirer, the Empowerer, the Seeker, the Weaver, and the Preserver. This event was accompanied by a fivefold division in the naga race, forming the five major subraces now known as dark nagas, guardian nagas, iridescent nagas, spirit nagas, and water nagas.

Upon giving birth to Parrafaire, the Naga Prince, Shekinester expelled Ssharstrune’s remains and instructed her offspring to hide away the destructive force that the corpse embodied forever, so that her five-fold aspect could not actually divide her into five separate goddesses. Parrafaire complied with her wishes, and now both he and his mother are venerated as guardians of the naga race.

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Originally posted by Wrigley

I haven't got my head around this one yet. I have seen some theories about Ssharstrune and Shekinester at these halls but to me they are still only minor gods from old pantheon. Those information we have are full of alegories and myths so you have to delve deep to realy get to unlock the information within. If you suppose that they might also be entirely different dieties in guise than that pool is realy deep...
Each time I delve there i find more information about entirely different subject than about what I was looking for. Last time it was about Imaskari while I was looking about Netheril :-)

To derail this a little back to original direction. Does anybody have more clear picture about how might batrachi land empire look like in it's haydays? I can see they had a lot of slaves (mainly humans) and lot of minions (bullywugs, sivs, dopplegangers, ...) who did their work (talking about batrachi lords). They should want to live in humid/wet and warm climate so marches and swamps that were in place of later Sea of Fallen stars should do fine. We know nothing about their culture and architecture except some altars of Ramenos and obelisks in seas.

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Originally posted by Baltas

Auril also fought against Aerdrie Faenya in the Lolth vs Corellon war (since 2e actually), and Auril was also said to be exiled from Arborea/Arvandor after that(also actually from 2e).

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Originally posted by TBeholder

Since it's apparently the necromancy season...

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Originally posted by Baltas

Auril also fought against Aerdrie Faenya in the Lolth vs Corellon war (since 2e actually), and Auril was also said to be exiled from Arborea/Arvandor after that(also actually from 2e).

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Where this comes from? Source?
Seeing how neither Aerdrie Faenya nor anyone of the Seldarine is listed in her foes.
The Seldarine don't like her, but they don't like her along with the rest of Gods of Fury who keep messing up their lawns.

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Originally posted by Ayrik

Demons and fiends are often malformed, terrifying, and highly variable in appearance.

I'm not personally familiar with Lovecraft's Shadow over Innsmouth, but results from a quick google image search look to me more like half-preserved half-decayed worm-ridden undead than like tentacle-faced aquatic grotesqueries. Zombies, ghasts, ghouls, mummies, or perhaps some little liches might be suitable substitutions - especially if they are variant forms derived from decidedly non-human creatures.

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