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AlastorTheGrim
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 10 May 2016 : 22:35:04
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I have a question relating to information in the book "Lords of Darkness" (3rd edition) and was wondering as to the best place (forum) to ask the question. If it is in this area, great. If not, feel free to yell at me :) new here, and though I did read the Code of Conduct, I am not familiar enough with this site to know where to go. Any help would be appreciated.
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Edited by - AlastorTheGrim on 11 May 2016 03:03:09
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 22:46:05
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quote:
Originally posted by AlastorTheGrim
I have a question relating to information in the book "Lords of Darkness" (3rd edition) and was wondering as to the best place (forum) to ask the question. If it is in this area, great. If not, feel free to yell at me :) new here, and though I did read the Code of Conduct, I am not familiar enough with this site to know where to go. Any help would be appreciated.
You are in violation of Appendix C Subsection XI of the code of conduct..."waaaayyy too polite." 
All joking aside, I'm not a Candlekeep expert, but I can tell you, for my few hundred posts, there's hardly a nicer bunch (both everyone here and Piazza). Please ask away! I loved LoD. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 22:47:31
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Here or in General Discussions. Wooly will probably move it to the appropriate forums.
Your question on "Lords of Darkness", ask away. Someone will have some kind of answer. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 23:04:37
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| I see no issue with leaving this one where it is. Fire away with the questions! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3287 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 23:15:56
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| There you go Alastor The Grimm... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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AlastorTheGrim
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2016 : 00:36:38
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Ok thank you for the quick responses, had to run to work so couldn't respond right away. Also, I'm currently at work and no longer have my LoD right in front of me, so if any information is incorrect my apologies. Here is the question:
I suppose I have to put -SPOILER- here for those who haven't read the book?
How did Arklem Greeth become Archmage Arcane of the Arcane Brotherhood, and after his defeat return to his position of power, at his level of ability? In the book I believe he is listed as a Wizard 16/Archmage 2, and of course when he returns to reclaim the Host-Tower he is also a Lich. The book also mentions the 4 Overwizards he returns to find - Jaluth "Snakeface" Alaerth (Wiz 20), Ornar of the Claw (Wiz 19?/Arch 3?), Deltagar Zelhund (Wiz 18/Lor 2/Arch 1), and Eltuth "Wyvernmaster" Oyim (no levels given). Again, I don't have the sourcebook in front of me, those levels are the best I could do from memory.
So in the ABrotherhood, we have seen that it is the kind of organization where you have to personally possess great power, or you will be backstabbed and usurped. This has been shown in the AB entry in LoD, as well as the story concerning Crenshinibon in Icewind Dale (exact title of the novel eludes me). However, we see that all of these Overwizards (in terms of levels at the very least) are more powerful than Arklem (assuming Wyvernmaster is on a level somewhat equal to the other 3). In addition, by the time of his defeat by Eldeluc and Valkebar, Arklem was extremely old and frail, and probably not in the best condition to defend himself. How did Arklem manage to become Archmage Arcane when there were so many powerful mages also in the AB?
Secondly, how did he manage to retake the Host-Tower? I understand he came back as a lich, and with the aid of devils, but the four overwizards, in addition to Eldeluc and Valkebar (who had to be powerful to drive him away in the first place), should have been able to defeat or at least stalemate him. I am assuming no extraordinarily powerful devils were summoned, the Erinyes Arklem made a deal with (not even going to try and get her name right) doesn't seem to have a great amount if infernal influence.
So in essence I am wondering, how on earth did Arklem achieve the things that he did? It didn't seem like he was strong enough to rule the Host-Tower before he was driven out, and it didn't seem like he was strong enough (even with newfound Lichdom and devilish allies) to retake it. |
Edited by - AlastorTheGrim on 11 May 2016 01:10:19 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2016 : 11:28:29
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There is no "correct" answer to your question. It happened, so it's up to you to explain how/why if you absolutely need to for your game or ignore it if you can't. People here can no doubt provide suggestions, but your take is just as valid as theirs.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2016 : 11:45:27
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| I would assume a lot of shady dealings, possibly including blackmail and assassination. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2016 : 15:30:39
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| I would agree with Wooly, if his magic is not powerful enough on it's own to explain his station, than look to other forms of power he might hold through alliances, blackmail, or downright fear-factor. If he presents the appearance of being too powerful to mess with, the truth of his abilities only matters if someone is crazy enough to test it. As long as he has contingencies to account for the crazy folk, he remains at the top until he's defeated. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1527 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2016 : 12:53:23
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| Technically, Greeth's CR, modified by his lichdom, is equal to two of the four Overwizards. I mean, it's not as bad as the time that Greeth got fried by an electricity spell despite being a lich, but I'd suggest bumping up Greeth's Hit Dice a bit. |
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Shamgar
Acolyte
1 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2016 : 17:41:46
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| One thing to remember too is that people wouldn't know what someone's "level" was. Greeth may have been able to trick the others into believing he was more powerful than he was. Also, pure level does not always translate directly to battle prowess. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2016 : 01:45:55
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| My answer to that would be one simply of preparation. A high level archmage who has the time and ability to check out the typical defenses of a rival can ward themselves appropriately to quickly decimate an unprepared enemy. It may have been the case that the other archmages had simply gained power quickly, but not necessarily learning the wisdom of self defense in down time. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2016 : 01:47:51
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| Oh, and also for that matter... Greeth may have known about certain contingencies and/or secrets that he had placed previously in the hosttower that the new occupants didn't. Portals, spells to make areas proof against transportation magic, spell engines to make spellcasting a problem... these can be very nasty. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6662 Posts |
Posted - 20 May 2016 : 05:19:34
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and also for that matter... Greeth may have known about certain contingencies and/or secrets that he had placed previously in the hosttower that the new occupants didn't. Portals, spells to make areas proof against transportation magic, spell engines to make spellcasting a problem... these can be very nasty.
Sleyvas has the right of it. In my book, Greeth had the benefit of secrets and indirect assistance from the "Old Ones" of the Grand Cabal.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 00:50:32
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| Power and leadership are two different things. We are talking about leading a cabal of powerful wizards where each has his own agenda. It is not only about being able to defeat one mage but to be supported and acknowledged by enough of them. Those upstarts might have just been unhappy with him so much that they attacked him. With preparation you as a wizard can take down even more powerful one if he is not prepared for you. Once he returned he got probably supported again by his allies and just the knowledge that he has returned even more powerful then before could strike fear into those attackers so they will not try again (also he know about them now se he might have something prepared for them). |
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extremely tentative post (Arklem Greeth)
