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Nacopa
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Mar 2016 : 18:06:19
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From what I understood - which could have been falsely interpreted - the new magical rune provided by the most recent wielder was powered by the bond of the soul, and that is how the blade can evolve magically. It seemed logical that after death, the blade held the soul to continue providing that rune's magical ability for the next generation.
As for other types of elves wielding the blade, I was skimming moonblade posts a while back and I believe it was mentioned that the other subraces were not exempt from claiming a blade, but it wasn't specified whether bloodline mattered. I was under the belief that if a line died out, any elf could potentially reawaken the inert blade, starting the cycle anew. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2016 : 18:26:54
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| Do baelnorn have phylacteries? It would seem as if the moonblades were, in fact, some type of magic jar that houses the disembodied spirits of all former wielders. I cannot recall any other such item with that kind of potency, except, perhaps, Crenshinibon which was said to contain the spirits of many liches. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 16 Mar 2016 18:43:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2016 : 18:28:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Unless the elfshadow power was the very first one embedded in Arilyn's sword, then it stands to reason that the souls of all moonfighters are bound to the blades -- otherwise, her sword would have had just the one elfshadow available, not ones for all the past wielders.
Danilo's soul being bound to the blade also, to me, indicates that the source of a moonblade's new power is the bound soul of the wielder.
And when Arilyn gave up the blade, and thus broke her bond to it -- the power she'd added was lost. This, to me, further indicates the power the blade gets comes from the bound soul of the wielder.
That was the impression I got from reading the books, too -- that wielding a moonblade meant a delay between dying and actually going to Arvandor, and heirs who were prepared for wielding a blade explicitly knew that. When a blade goes dormant, the souls are released -- and this also backs up how difficult and extraordinary it would be to reawaken a blade.
It could be argued, though, that Arilyn misunderstood, and that only a part of the wielder's soul is bound to the blade -- though the "unoccupied" body of Zoastria would argue against that.
It could also be that the soul-binding was something unique to Arilyn's sword... After all, we've not seen a lot of these things in action. Though in that case, you've got to explain why her sword is different, and again explain the apparent binding of all its wielders.
At least, that's my read on it. I could, obviously, be entirely mistaken. 
So does it stand to reason that the first power of ALL moonblades is Elfshadow?
No. The binding of the soul is what allows whatever new power to be added. The elfshadow property allows for one or more of the bound souls to be called forth.
Note also that the book Elfshadow shows that the soul is bound before the power is added -- because Arilyn couldn't add a power until the end of the book, but the elfshadow Kymil was calling forth was hers. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2016 : 18:38:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Nacopa
From what I understood - which could have been falsely interpreted - the new magical rune provided by the most recent wielder was powered by the bond of the soul, and that is how the blade can evolve magically. It seemed logical that after death, the blade held the soul to continue providing that rune's magical ability for the next generation.
This is what I understand, too.
quote:
Originally posted by Nacopa
As for other types of elves wielding the blade, I was skimming moonblade posts a while back and I believe it was mentioned that the other subraces were not exempt from claiming a blade, but it wasn't specified whether bloodline mattered. I was under the belief that if a line died out, any elf could potentially reawaken the inert blade, starting the cycle anew.
The moonblades belonged to clans, and could only be inherited from members of the same clan, and although the distance in the bloodline was not very determined, a more direct sucession would be one trait to consider if a lineage was more fit to the throne than another, by words of Mrs. Cunningham.
As for reawakening the blades, it would be a very rare event. It happened to Craulnober's blade, but it involved a major possibility of change in his behavior or attitude in what seemed the eminence of death, and a sort of character redemption, something not very common among "unworthy" heirs (or potential descendants born after his or her claiming attempt). But once again, it didn't happened to other but the heir of that clan's blade.
As for other subraces being able to inherit a moonblade, we should also consider that the offspring of individuals of two elven subraces have equal chance of belonging to one or the other parent's subrace. Maybe some subraces would be more adequate for the potential ruler of Evermeet, in case of a disaster, though.
EDIT: I think an example could clarify this last phrase. Think of a moon/sea elf child that is a sea elf, created in the depths... It would be very hard for him or her to be inserted in Evermeet's courtly life, and to be accepted and respected as a leader - with all the responsibilities of a king - by the People in general. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 17 Mar 2016 10:51:51 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2016 : 18:53:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Do baelnorn have phylacteries? It would seem as if the moonblades were, in fact, some type of magic jar that houses the disembodied spirits of all former wielders. I cannot recall any other such item with that kind of potency, except, perhaps, Crenshinibon which was said to contain the spirits of many liches.
So was the Crystal Shard some kind of corrupted copy of a moonblade's magic? Or, even older? The Nether scrolls? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2016 : 19:00:14
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| Keep in mind that there are a LOT of magical items in the Realms. Moonblades are just one type, and a very specific type. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2016 : 22:18:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by Nacopa
8.Can you describe the traditional ritual a hopeful inheritor would perform to awaken a moonblade?
Mrs. Cunningham once told me that it's not like a magical or complex ritual, but more like claiming, accepting and being accepted by the blade. As it happened to Arilyn, which wasn't prepared to inherit her mother's blade.
The technical side of a blade-rite is trivial, yes - one need to draw the sword and be accepted rather than killed (in the case of moonblades) or cursed (in case of lesser "badge of office" elfblades), and that's it.
But the elves may want to wrap something this important in some sort of a ritual (if the circumstances allow).
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
If the purpouse of the moonblades was to decide the royal house of all the elves, should not all of them go dormant now that Amlaruil (and Zaor before her) sits on the throne?
The powers of other blades were kept to support the royal house and also to warrant that a worthy substitute would be available in case the royal family died all out, somehow.
If they just gone cold once the monarch is chosen, this could indeed be a major bummer for lots of elves - from these royals to those who couldn't get to the ceremony because of heavy fighting wherever they are. As to why moonblades didn't just e.g. change to "shut down" one by one as their current wielders die, and instead gradually turned into unusable traps... well, that's the famous elven foresight for you. Typical, really.
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
why only moon elves? Are the golds somehow unfit for leadership? History disagrees.
Uh, that was the whole point? Moon elves noticeably tend to be more adaptive and less prone to having their heads stuck between their own buns. On the average.
Hence the idea: hey, it looks like the weakened elvenkind faces more complicated times? If someone's got to lead them, those should be Moon Elves, now pick some good ones, give them the legitimized crown (so that they could actually get things done, rather than bogged in the usual bickering up to eartips) and make sure that there's a good-sized clan of them (so that the monarch will have someone for support and "peer review", and problems with succession will be unlikely).
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I just can't see the sunnies rolling over for that even if the Hand of Correllon shoved it down their throats
Well, yes - see "Elfshadow". 
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Do baelnorn have phylacteries?
No. But there were mentions that they're bound to an area.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Note also that the book Elfshadow shows that the soul is bound before the power is added -- because Arilyn couldn't add a power until the end of the book, but the elfshadow Kymil was calling forth was hers.
Aye, that's kind of the point - the power is added at an arbitrary moment in response to the wielder's need (like having to hide or being blasted by dragonbreath).
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
As for other subraces being able to inherit a moonblade, we should also consider that the offspring of individuals of two elven subraces have equal chance of belonging to one or the other parent's subrace. Maybe some subraces would be more adqequate for the potential ruler of Evermeet, in case of a disaster, though.
...and their descendants may be Silver again.
Thus if Lady Elfia Leafhugger is a Silver elf, and she married into the Bigears who are not, some of her children will take after her husband... but they and their children still will be descendants of Leafhugger clan and as such potential claimants of Leafhugger moonblades (in absence of designated heir to the given blade). And even if those elves are not eligible beyond one generation, when one of them marries into Swirlydance clan of Silver elves, half of the children will be Silvers eligible for moonblades of both Leafhugger and Swirlydance (if any).
Which may have desirable effects - whether they'll go for Leafhugger moonblades depends on whether:
1) they are proud of Leafhugger ancestry or want to have as little to do with it as possible;
2) they consider this option because Swirlydance moonblades became too tough as a challenge - this evens the playing field a bit;
3) there are unclaimed Leafhugger moonblades in the first place - this also gives negative feedback, but on the level of clan membership;
4) the potential claimant is coached by a member of the clan in question, or even better, was an apprenticed of one. Both because it improves one's chance and because they know this.
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People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 03:09:28
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| Anything about elves by Elaine has my interest |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 10:54:18
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
...and their descendants may be Silver again.
Or not, and yet be eligible to inherit the blade. Not originally, but see the case of Azariah, mentioned by Mrs. Cunningham some posts ago.
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 11:02:30
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
- History of several specific blades; i.e, Arilyn's sword, the Craulnober moonblade, the King Sword
- The story of another house's moonblade, told in a serious of short stories depicting pivotal events in the life of each wielder
- 5E stats for several blades that are still "out in the wild" and available for use in campaigns, as well as suggestions on how to incorporate invent-your-own moonblades into a campaign
If there's anything else you'd like to see included, or questions you'd like answered, please add your suggestions in comments.
As I've just noticed that the history of the most famous blades, the story of the new blade and the stats are in separate items, I ask you if the 5E stats for the King Sword, and for Craulnober and Arilyn's blades will be provided, or at least a description of all of their powers...
EDIT: ...along with the powers and/or stats of the "another house's moonblade". |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 17 Mar 2016 11:50:51 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 14:08:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
- History of several specific blades; i.e, Arilyn's sword, the Craulnober moonblade, the King Sword
- The story of another house's moonblade, told in a serious of short stories depicting pivotal events in the life of each wielder
- 5E stats for several blades that are still "out in the wild" and available for use in campaigns, as well as suggestions on how to incorporate invent-your-own moonblades into a campaign
If there's anything else you'd like to see included, or questions you'd like answered, please add your suggestions in comments.
As I've just noticed that the history of the most famous blades, the story of the new blade and the stats are in separate items, I ask you if the 5E stats for the King Sword, and for Craulnober and Arilyn's blades will be provided, or at least a description of all of their powers...
EDIT: ...along with the powers and/or stats of the "another house's moonblade".
At this point, everything is negotiable. I'm very open to addressing any questions and interests readers and gamers might have.
My first reaction was sure, I can describe their powers and history, but since none of those swords are "up for grabs" in campaigns, there's no sense in doing 5E stats.
But then it occurred to me that this is based on the assumption that that no one will run a campaign or play a character that deviates from my view of moonblades and their history, and that's the type of thinking I'm trying to steer clear of. If someone decides to create a timeline in which Prince Lamruil's newly-invented daughter inherits Arilyn's sword, they might like to have a set of ready-made stats. So, yeah. I can do that.
As a scribe pointed out to me in a private message, DMs and players need room to create and interpret the lore. I agree. Being too pedantic--my natural inclination--will not result in a product people find useful or interesting.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 14:21:36
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
(...) but since none of those swords are "up for grabs" in campaigns, there's no sense in doing 5E stats.
Stats of the novels' heroes and villains - and everyone inbetween - and their blades can also be used by DMs who intend to use your characters as NPCs, mostly fans of your work. And probably, new fans will arise as more people will have contact with your characters.
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 14:22:00
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This has been posted on Candlekeep before, but since it pertains to the topic I'll add it to this thread. It's a silly bit of flash fiction I wrote a few years back. It's meant in fun--no offense is intended to those folk whose fascination with moonblades takes them in directions I didn't predict. It does, however, skewer the idea that anything in life--moonblades included--are supposed to be "fair." In the immortal words of the Dread Pirate Wesley, "Life isn't fair. Anyone who tells you otherwise is selling something."
***
Moonblades were designed to be a test of kingship, a visual symbol of the right and fitness to rule. But over the years, concept creep has set it. For those who are in need of clarification, consider, if you will, an imaginary conversation that I'll call...
A CONNECTICUT GAMER IN KING ARTHUR'S COURT
I woke up in a stable, though I'll be damned if I could tell you how I got here. One minute, I'm racing an approaching thunderstorm so I can level up before logging out, the next, I'm face down in straw. Everything hurt, and I smelled like a KFC Double Down that had been left in the fryer a little too long.
After a few tries, I hauled myself up. Remembering how to walk took a while, but pretty soon I was staggering out of the stable into the grounds of a Ren Faire that looked--and, unfortunately, smelled--more authentic than most. The sun wasn’t quite up yet, and the only person in the muddy courtyard was an old man with a long white beard. He sat on this boulder, next to the hilt of an old sword that someone had Crazy-Glued to the rock. He watched my approach with eyes that saw way too much. I got the feeling that he knew things about me I don't know myself, and probably won't figure out until I'm old. Like, forty. Although come to think of it, forty isn't looking as old as it used to, considering Jennifer Anniston.
"Around here, that name is pronounced 'Gwynevere,'" he said.
"Huh. Like Drizzt's panther?"
He shrugged. "Sure."
It hit me then that he'd responded to something I hadn't actually said. I looked from the old guy to the sword, to the stone. Something clicked.
"No way!" I marveled.
"Way," he said gravely. "Took you long enough, dude."
Now, that just didn’t seem right. "Wait. If you're Merlin, shouldn't you be all, 'forsooth, ye saucy varlet' and so on?"
A longsuffering expression crossed his face. "Whence and wherefore art thou come, young sir?”
“Damned if I know. Last thing I remember, I was playing an MMO and found an old sword in an abandoned dragon’s lair. Looked like it might be elf-crafted. I was trying to level up, in case it was a moonblade, so I’d have a better chance of claiming it without getting fried.”
His shoulders rose and fell in a sigh that held about a thousand years of been-there-heard-that. “And how’s that working out for you?”
“Hard to say. Thunderstorm blew in and…” I spread my hands, palms up. “Here I am.”
“I see. And now I suppose you want to attempt to draw the sword from the stone.”
“Dude, that’s the high king’s sword. Excalibur. What exactly are you smoking?”
He almost smiled. “That’s refreshing. Most people think they ought to have a shot.”
“Seriously? At being the next high king of the Britons?”
Merlin thought that over. “At first, perhaps. Now they mostly want to prove themselves worthy.”
“Of what?”
“Just ‘worthy’ in general. The definition gets broader and more vague by the day.”
“So it’s not just the royal wannabes, but people who want to prove they’re as good as the next guy.”
“Pretty much.” He scowled. “And it’s not just the Britons anymore. Irish, Saxons, Danes, Jutes, Scotti—they’re all wanting in. Last week a Greek sea captain showed up.”
I tried to make sense of this, but apparently the lightning had fried more than my motherboard. “You’d think they could come up with swords and myths and rituals of their own.”
“You’d think,” Merlin grumbled.
A goat trotted up to the boulder, fixed its weird yellow dragon’s eyes on the wizard’s face, and let out a long string of bleats and bahs. Merlin listened politely for a while, then held up one hand to staunch the flow of goatspeak.
“I believe I have the gist. To recap, you found a sword similar to this one in a meadow and kicked it into a hollow log. When a fox threatened your offspring, you led it in a chase and tricked it into taking a shortcut through the log, thus ending its life and the threat it posed. Having successfully employed a sword in defense of your young, you believe you have the right to this one.”
The goat bleated enthusiastically.
“I’m afraid it doesn’t work that way,” the wizard said. “You are not the destined king. You’re not a Briton, nor, for that matter, are you human. For all these reasons, you are not eligible to claim the sword.”
Judging from the nipping and head-butting that followed, this wasn’t something the goat wanted to hear. Merlin kicked at the angry goat for a while before he figured out it would make more sense to scramble up onto the highest part of the boulder and stand out of reach.
“I didn’t say you weren’t a worthy goat,” he called down. “No doubt you’re a paragon among goats. But you don’t. Need. A frickin’ sword to validate that!”
The goat thought this over and then bleated some more.
“No, I will NOT train you to be a warrior king!” howled Merlin. “And no, you can NOT impregnate a human woman and expect to pass Excalibur to your theoretical offspring. It doesn’t work that way.”
The goat huffed. It turned its back to Merlin, lifted its tail, and dumped a load. Off it trotted, grumbling.
I clapped one hand over my nose to ward off the smell and reached the other up to help the old wizard climb down from the stone.
Merlin nodded his thanks and sank down to sit on a low edge of the boulder. “You see how it is.”
“Yeah.” I shook my head in disbelief. “Weird, though. It’s such a simple concept.”
“It was certainly meant to be.”
He pulled out a pottery flask, took a swig, and offered it to me. We passed the flask back and forth for a while. The high-blood-pressure-red slowly faded from his face.
“So, tell me about this moonblade. You’re acting as a representative for a noble moon elf clan, I assume?”
I swallowed a mouthful of mead and shook my head. “It’s for my PC. She’s a half-orc, half-tiefling fighter who moonlights as a courtesan.”
Merlin stared at me for a long moment.
“She’s neutral good,” I said defensively. Since he didn’t look convinced, I added, “And she’s thinking of multi-classing as a paladin.”
The wizard rose and gestured to a lanky kid who was foot-dragging his way toward us, scratching himself and yawning widely.
The kid glanced my way. His gaze sharpened as he took in my WTF are ELADRIN?!! tee shirt.
“Let me guess: Moonblades again?”
Merlin nodded and took a couple of quick steps away.
Moving faster than I would have thought possible, the kid lunged for the sword, yanked it out of the stone, and swung it toward me in a shining arc.
The world spun and rolled. When it came to a stop, I was eye-level with the pile the goat had left behind. A few paces away, my headless body twitched in a spreading red pool.
Interesting. I’d heard that the brain takes a few minutes to shut down after decapitation. I lasted long enough to see young Arthur sheath Excalibur in the stone and head off in the direction the goat had taken. I guess a future king can’t be too careful when it comes to potential rivals.
THE END |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 17 Mar 2016 14:30:18 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 15:21:41
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| I've actually been tinkering with creating a moonblade for an NPC, but it's more of a MacGuffin than anything else. In fact, I'm not 100% sure the elf in question will even wield it -- he's more concerned with retrieving it and bringing it back to his family. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 17 Mar 2016 23:49:15 |
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Nacopa
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2016 : 22:25:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Moonblades were designed to be a test of kingship, a visual symbol of the right and fitness to rule. But over the years, concept creep has set it.
It makes a lot sense. Every reader has an imagination to some degree, and so it's natural to fill in gaps. One of the most intriguing gaps tends to be the great Why.
I pose this question: If the moonblades were created to identify characters fit for rulership, how heavily does the need or purpose of the crown in question influence the High Mages that created the swords? Since the swords were created with a specific set of traits in mind for use in selecting a king, would not the very reason for creating this new monarchy inform their creation? If so, what was the thinking of the time that brought the elves to this point? I seem to recall they desired to protect the People from extinction, basically, and that was the most primal reason for unification under one ruler. I may remember incorrectly or partially, of course, but that had always explained to me why the blades could potentially be claimed by any Tel'Quess if the original noble line died out. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2016 : 01:03:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Nacopa
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Moonblades were designed to be a test of kingship, a visual symbol of the right and fitness to rule. But over the years, concept creep has set it.
It makes a lot sense. Every reader has an imagination to some degree, and so it's natural to fill in gaps. One of the most intriguing gaps tends to be the great Why.
I pose this question: If the moonblades were created to identify characters fit for rulership, how heavily does the need or purpose of the crown in question influence the High Mages that created the swords? Since the swords were created with a specific set of traits in mind for use in selecting a king, would not the very reason for creating this new monarchy inform their creation? If so, what was the thinking of the time that brought the elves to this point? I seem to recall they desired to protect the People from extinction, basically, and that was the most primal reason for unification under one ruler. I may remember incorrectly or partially, of course, but that had always explained to me why the blades could potentially be claimed by any Tel'Quess if the original noble line died out.
It happened after the Crown Wars. The elves have seen that their time has passed and foressen the rise of mankind or at least the opening of the gap for other races, IIRC, and that's why the better rulers would be those who could deal better with non-elves. It involved the elven race survival, keeping the elven values alive, bu also dealing with the world (almost impossible for sea elves and the few secretive avariel, very hard for the wild or barbaric - for elves - green elves, and difficult for the arrogant or elitist gold elves (which were the rulers for many centuries but tended to be too proud as a subrace to produce entire lineages of open-minded rulers, back then).
The blades were never potentially claimed by any Tel'Quess or even any moon elf after a particular line died out. In fact, the line would never die out because of the blade directly, because if the one trying to claim it was the last of his line the blade would lose its powers, becoming dormant (and as I understood by the last books, releasing the souls that empowered it). Once released, the powers (and souls?) would not come back at the call of any Tel'Quess, and only through very extraordinary circustances the blade would be reactivated by a descendant of the line. If the line died out, the blade would be dormant forever: another blade would find the king, which would belong to another lineage. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2016 : 01:34:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Nacopa
I pose this question: If the moonblades were created to identify characters fit for rulership,
(...)
I just found the point: moonblades were not created to identify CHARACTERS fit for rulership, but to find LINEAGES fit for the throne. That's why the blades were given to the noble clans. A worthy character would rule the elves for decades or a few centuries, a lineage would last for a much longer time - and we're talking of elven time!
That's why the subraces and clans which comprised the nobility of the realms of that time were the ones eligible to try claiming a blade. And don't forget elven politics also had a say in this. Subracial traits had also part in this eligibility: I'm not sure, but I think after the Crown Wars was exactly the time when greens decided to abandon the trappings of civilization and became more isolated from the world...
But the main point is that, if everything went in the direction of choosing a lineage worthy, and at first the swords were available only to gold and moon elven nobility, it would make no sense for the blades to be activated in the future by any Tel'Quess. The blades were made to find a king among nobles, and most - or at least "many" - of the High Mages were members of the clans which would send representatives to try claiming the blades.
EDIT: Mrs. Cunningham once declared that the set of powers manifested by the blade would be one of the requisites to be considered in the choosing of the king's clan, for the blade with more powers desirable for a ruler would reflect a clan with ruling traits. Besides, she also stated that a blade passed more directly in a lineage (like mother/father to son/daughter) would give its clan an advantage, in the appropriate time, for choosing the king's family. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 18 Mar 2016 16:30:12 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2016 : 05:02:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
see the case of Azariah
It's still not known who exactly can be an exception - only children of a (potential) heir or any descendant of any wielder of the correct clan.
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
“I see. And now I suppose you want to attempt to draw the sword from the stone.”
“Dude, that’s the high king’s sword. Excalibur. What exactly are you smoking?”
I thought Excalibur was the one Lady of the Lake gave him?
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
EDIT: Mrs. Cunningham once declared that the set of powers manifested by the blade would be one of the requisites to be considered in the choosing of the king's clan, for the blade with more powers desirable for a ruler would reflect a clan with ruling traits.
Which implies there are some criteria for the "ruler's blade" vs. "adventurer's blade".
Unless it's simply similarity between the blades within the same clan, indicating that they are either rebellious hot-heads or slow-learners, seeing how they get in the same troubles again and again adhering to some common modus operandi and therefore probably aren't too prone to straying too far away from The Glorious Elven Ways.
quote:
Besides, she also stated that a blade passed more directly in a lineage (like mother/father to son/daughter) would give its clan an advantage, in the appropriate time, for choosing the king's family.
An interesting moment, that can be tied with non-Silver claimants.
Or this can simply mean that a sword not skipping whole generations passes through more wielders and thus collects more powers/runes. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2016 : 11:40:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Nacopa
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Moonblades were designed to be a test of kingship, a visual symbol of the right and fitness to rule. But over the years, concept creep has set it.
It makes a lot sense. Every reader has an imagination to some degree, and so it's natural to fill in gaps. One of the most intriguing gaps tends to be the great Why.
I pose this question: If the moonblades were created to identify characters fit for rulership, how heavily does the need or purpose of the crown in question influence the High Mages that created the swords? Since the swords were created with a specific set of traits in mind for use in selecting a king, would not the very reason for creating this new monarchy inform their creation? If so, what was the thinking of the time that brought the elves to this point? I seem to recall they desired to protect the People from extinction, basically, and that was the most primal reason for unification under one ruler. I may remember incorrectly or partially, of course, but that had always explained to me why the blades could potentially be claimed by any Tel'Quess if the original noble line died out.
These are all excellent questions. I'll give them more thought in early April, once my schedule opens up a tad.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2016 : 18:07:45
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
“I see. And now I suppose you want to attempt to draw the sword from the stone.”
“Dude, that’s the high king’s sword. Excalibur. What exactly are you smoking?”
I thought Excalibur was the one Lady of the Lake gave him?
There are two schools of thought on this
Some Lore does indicate that the Sword in the Stone was Excalibur, that the Lady of the Lake did not figure as much this school.
The other school clearly holds the The Sword in the Stone was a separate blade that only had that one purpose, determine the High King. In this school the blade is never mentioned again as a weapon or having any other purpose. In this school of course the Lady of the Lake provided Excalibur to Arthur after he became High King.
Pick your school of choice, or there can be a few other less remarked schools. There is much lore that has been generated over a something like 700 year span of time. There is much to study and choose from. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2016 : 18:30:43
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As for the questions on souls and moonblades, some excerpts from the conversation between Arilyn and her elfshadow, in chapter 5 of Silver Shadows:
"First let me point out that the moonblade accepted you when you were but a child, not to mention the first half-elf ever to inherit such a sword! This decision was not lightly made, for it was foreseen that you would do a great service to the People."
"Once accepted, you slowly became attuned to the sword. That is how I came into being. For lack of a better description, I am the personification of your union with the sword."
"I see. Do all moonblades have people like you?"
"By the sea and stars! No, not at all. The ability to form and summon an elfshadow was one of the powers added to the moonblade you carry. By Zoastria."
"Like the elves who have gone before you, you added a power to the moonblade," (...) "A power that reflects your character and your needs."
"Moonblades contain great magic, and they grow in power with each wielder. But as with all magic, the cost is high. (...) I am the shadow of what you will become."
"Then when I die—" she began.
"You will not die, strictly speaking. Your life essence will enter the moonblade. This is the ultimate source of the sword's magic."
"So what you're saying is that this sword is full of dead elves"
"No! (...) Except in unusual cases, elves are immortal. We pass from this world on to the realms of Arvandor without tasting death as humans know it. But yes, each elf who accepts a moonblade understands that his or her passage to Arvandor will be delayed, perhaps for thousands of years, until the moonblade's purpose is fulfilled. When a sword falls dormant, the elves are released. It is an enormous sacrifice, but one that certain noble elves take on gladly for the greater good of the People."
Reading this I understood that the soul of former users of Arilyn's moonblade could manifest through the elfshadow, but that every moonfighter was attuned to his or her blade and delayed his or her soul travel to Arvandor to empower his ir hers clan blade. Is that right?
EDIT: And then a question arises. The moonblade accepted Arilyn and "the decision was not lightly made, for it was foressen she would do a great service to the People"... It was a hard decision for the blade or for the souls within it? Who foresaw her role in the people's future? If the souls decided, was it possible because of the elfshadow power, or other blades which don't manifest the souls within through shadows (if it's like it works) would also judge new owners (and Wooly's suggestion be correct, that this is one of the reasons why powerful blades are more difficult to claim)? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 18 Mar 2016 18:40:50 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2016 : 15:32:01
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| Just gathering data and gauging interest: Is there a particular elven house, or individual character, that you'd like to see highlighted? |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2016 : 16:44:31
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| I'd like to know more about the Amarillis and about Urijah in particular. Besides the obvious choices of Craulnober and maybe a bit more about Zaor's past. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Zanthox
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2016 : 21:43:04
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First: Super excited for this! Moonblades are some of my favorite items from previous editions.
As far as any specifics, I would love if there was a blade that could perhaps overlap with the Singing Swords or just ties into the followers of Eilistraee in some way. I realize this would be a very unique circumstance, but would still enjoy it if you think you could make it work. |
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Kyrael
Acolyte
Turkey
1 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2016 : 09:19:20
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I'm really excited to see that you are starting on such a project!
I would love to know more about Amarillis and Durothil clans and their blades. Some more detailed info on Elaith and lost children of Amlaruil and Zaor. Maybe some short stories from The Crown Wars era,The Weeping Wars and Myth Drannor's Fall(I know i'm asking too much but i need to know more! :) )
thank you for taking care of your elves Ms. Cunningham
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2016 : 12:10:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyrael
lost children of Amlaruil and Zaor
Yes, that would be good. Also, more back-story about the adventures of Amnestria & Thasitalia. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2016 : 14:48:12
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quote:
Originally posted by BenN
quote:
Originally posted by Kyrael
lost children of Amlaruil and Zaor
Yes, that would be good. Also, more back-story about the adventures of Amnestria & Thasitalia.
Seems to me that the Lost Children could end up being a project in itself. Amlaruil and Zaor had a LOT of kids.... |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2016 : 20:35:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanthox
First: Super excited for this! Moonblades are some of my favorite items from previous editions.
As far as any specifics, I would love if there was a blade that could perhaps overlap with the Singing Swords or just ties into the followers of Eilistraee in some way. I realize this would be a very unique circumstance, but would still enjoy it if you think you could make it work.
Huh. You know, I never thought of a singing sword in the context of moonblades, but I don't see why one of them couldn't take on this particular ability. Eilistraee is a little more complicated, since not many moon elves worship that goddess. I do have an idea for a workaround, though. A sword that sings in the presence of "good" drow would be useful to an elf who is likely to encounter dark elves on a regular basis. Not many places where that would be likely, though. Must give this some thought.... |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2016 : 21:30:49
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
An alarm sword for good drow seems like an ability one might acquire if you fought alongside good drow for instance (and they perhaps saved the wielders life or tried) when liberating the Lands Under Shadow in Cormanthyr alongside the good drow that became the guardians of the Twisted Tower for a time.
Good point. This is also suggests a scenario for a short story, and "The Twisted Tower" is a pretty good title.
So many tales, so little time...
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 25 Mar 2016 21:32:50 |
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Moonblades
