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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jan 2016 : 15:11:26
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Backfiring rituals seem to be the thing used to get rid of age old NPC's and I find it to be a crock.
Halaster and Maalthiir of Hillsfar both died while trying to conduct rituals. I'm sorry but I don't see Halaster Blackcloak botching a ritual and then dying. He has been around far to long to have not had some contingency in place. I see this as some sorry excuse from Wizards to kill off the character.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2016 : 16:48:26
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I'm not entirely sure Halaster is dead as we think. I find it very strange that Undermountain and its gates have not gone completely bonkers in his absence. I'd be inclined to think he's a part of the magical energies or wards of Undermountain, severely weakened and maybe keeping things in check at present. Haven't thought much more on how his shattered soul shards fit into the picture, but I bet they all need to make their way back to Undermountain.
I was just reading an old issue of Dungeon where it had a 4E class feature where the PC would have parts of Halaster's soul in them and a question of how much control Halaster has of the person. I find it plausible, somewhere out there the real Halaster has control or a working agreement with one or some individuals who house his shards to eventually recover them all. Get all his soul shards back into Undermountain and I bet his contingency magics will do the rest.
I hear you though, 4E had a nasty habit of "removing" favorites. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2016 : 17:05:36
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| Halaster being removed was basically just a plot device, and a poorly-implemented one, at that. He appears to be back, in some format, in 5E. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2016 : 19:50:14
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Much better then to have age old NPCs removed from the setting in other ways? Epic battles to the death (with other age old NPCs)? Eaten by a nasty dragon? Slain in a nasty dungeon? "Lost" in some extra-planar or other-worldly realm? Nominally promoted to godhood? Turned to the Dark Side?
At least Halaster stayed in character, he didn't suddenly redeem himself with a "noble sacrifice" to save people and the land he never much cared for in the past. I'm also unconvinced of his "death" ... it seems more like a "transformation" or perhaps even an "evolution" ... he was inextricably merged with Undermountain before, perhaps Halaster (or his mind, his consciousness, his soul, whatever) has finally become fully infused within the Underdark, now a sort of sentient magic item on a epic scale? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2016 : 01:24:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Much better then to have age old NPCs removed from the setting in other ways? Epic battles to the death (with other age old NPCs)? Eaten by a nasty dragon? Slain in a nasty dungeon? "Lost" in some extra-planar or other-worldly realm? Nominally promoted to godhood? Turned to the Dark Side?
At least Halaster stayed in character, he didn't suddenly redeem himself with a "noble sacrifice" to save people and the land he never much cared for in the past. I'm also unconvinced of his "death" ... it seems more like a "transformation" or perhaps even an "evolution" ... he was inextricably merged with Undermountain before, perhaps Halaster (or his mind, his consciousness, his soul, whatever) has finally become fully infused within the Underdark, now a sort of sentient magic item on a epic scale?
The problem with Halaster's death was that he somehow saw the coming Spellplague, tried to do some unspecified thing about it, and then thru some unspecified means spectacularly failed.
So a mortal not known for prescience somehow knew about an upcoming event that the gods didn't know about... That mortal -- previously known for his rather noteworthy mastery of magic -- manages to blow himself up. And that same mortal, despite a number of enemies and active rivals, either didn't have any contingencies handy or they all quite conveniently failed at the same time as this ritual.
And keep in mind this is all in a book that lays out magics that won't work in Undermountain and then has NPCs using that restricted magic without issue.
If all of that isn't poorly-implemented, then there is a definition of the word I've not seen before.
Even choking to death on a bowl of Spaghetti-Os would have been better than that mess. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 27 Jan 2016 01:25:32 |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2016 : 04:05:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The problem with Halaster's death was that he somehow saw the coming Spellplague, tried to do some unspecified thing about it, and then thru some unspecified means spectacularly failed.
So a mortal not known for prescience somehow knew about an upcoming event that the gods didn't know about... That mortal -- previously known for his rather noteworthy mastery of magic -- manages to blow himself up. And that same mortal, despite a number of enemies and active rivals, either didn't have any contingencies handy or they all quite conveniently failed at the same time as this ritual.
And keep in mind this is all in a book that lays out magics that won't work in Undermountain and then has NPCs using that restricted magic without issue.
It has its defenders, but the RSE that was done to facilitate the changeover to 4e was just... bad. It wasn't thought through. What the RSE did is drive away longtime players who otherwise might have been more receptive to 4e. And it created a split in players, like the original Star Trek vs. Star Trek: TNG. (Not even touching the Abramsverse Star Trek.  )
I still prefer the 2e Undermountain vs other edition versions of it.
quote:
If all of that isn't poorly-implemented, then there is a definition of the word I've not seen before.
Even choking to death on a bowl of Spaghetti-Os would have been better than that mess.
FUBAR (can I use that?) is the acronym that comes to mind concerning the 4e Realms getting nuked. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36909 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2016 : 04:45:39
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I don't want to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of the transition to 4E... We've traveled that road far too oft.
But a single, specific aspect of it is fair game for me... And Halaster's death could have been done so much better. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jan 2016 : 14:08:09
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| Maybe Halaster is conveniently waiting in Iruladoon until the right time to return. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2016 : 17:44:48
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This is the first time I hear about Maalthiir ended due to failed ritual are there more specifics?
Halaster's death was for me just end of long story - in my realms he is one of the Mystra's chosen and has gone mad due to experiments with Shadow Weave. Same as Sammaster btw. |
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore
1573 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2016 : 11:49:13
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Sammy was an actual Chosen, only it's clear that he had actual psychiatric issues and consequently went mad after being manipulated by a Banite cleric, now a banelich.
Though it's kind of hilarious that a player character would cheese the hell out of all these rituals and end up with uber-God wizards. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2016 : 15:56:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
This is the first time I hear about Maalthiir ended due to failed ritual are there more specifics?
Halaster's death was for me just end of long story - in my realms he is one of the Mystra's chosen and has gone mad due to experiments with Shadow Weave. Same as Sammaster btw.
Maalthiir tried to become a lich and failed. No explanations or anything. It was just a quick reason to kill him off. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2016 : 17:22:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
This is the first time I hear about Maalthiir ended due to failed ritual are there more specifics?
Halaster's death was for me just end of long story - in my realms he is one of the Mystra's chosen and has gone mad due to experiments with Shadow Weave. Same as Sammaster btw.
Maalthiir tried to become a lich and failed. No explanations or anything. It was just a quick reason to kill him off.
My thoughts on Maalthiir dying and failing to become a lich is a perfect excuse to have him in some sort of failed lich undead state. A half insane Witchlin like creature. |
Edited by - Eilserus on 29 Jan 2016 17:23:38 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2482 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2016 : 03:00:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Maalthiir tried to become a lich and failed. No explanations or anything. It was just a quick reason to kill him off.
At least, death is one of normal outcomes of taking a lichnee potion.
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Backfiring rituals seem to be a theme.
