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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Nov 2015 : 12:15:47
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I've got the map of Ancient Netheril from the 2e sourcebook and I'm trying to work out where things are in relation to the modern day realms. With no common names it's quite difficult to work it out. Based on the location of the Shadow Sea, I believe that the Netherese city of Blister is north of the Stormhorns placing it firmly in the Stonelands.
Does anyone know if this is correct? If it's not, does anyone know the correct placing?
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DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6372 Posts |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2015 : 19:05:00
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| Looking at the FR13 map it seems to me that Blister is under, or very close to, Tilverton. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 10 Nov 2015 00:08:48 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2015 : 19:54:00
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| Xaeyr, would you say the map in Dungeon 88 is correct? |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6372 Posts |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2015 : 21:17:32
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| Thanks guys. With those points of reference I should be able to work out where everything else is as well. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
Edited by - JohnLynch on 08 Nov 2015 21:18:12 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6372 Posts |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2015 : 00:14:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Xaeyr, would you say the map in Dungeon 88 is correct?
I don't want to be in the position of saying an official map is wrong, but since I'm already on record as saying the 3e map is a mutilation of the Realms, and garbage, I guess I'm not really taking on any more negative karma than I already have. 
In the paper Atlas --drawn from Ed's original maps-- Tilverton is at the Y of the Moonsea Ride (SW-NE) and the North Ride (going north). It's nestled into the Thunder Peaks, right up against the mountains on three sides, with foothills to the west.
In 3e, Tilverton is at the crossroads of the North Ride (N-S) and the Moonsea Ride (E-W, and inexplicably streaking out westward into the Stonelands). It's in a clear patch of land, 30 miles away from the nearest foothills and 65 miles away from the Thunder Peaks.
Depending on which map you like better, one is valid and the other is garbage.
The environs of Tilverton on the FR13 map doesn't match up with the paper Atlas --a common problem-- and I favor the Atlas except in cases where I happen to like the creative license taken in the poster maps. Can't think of any such cases off the top of my head, and I definitely like Tilverton as it's portrayed in the Atlas.
The Dungeon #88 maps on pages 21 and 28 are 3e, and dramatically different from the Atlas in undesirable ways, so for me they're wrong. 
But I don't mean to just grab the easy answer. We have 2e maps which place Tilverton and Blister in very close proximity. So when 3e moved Tilverton, it really needs to have moved Blister along with it. That clearly didn't happen, because...
...There is an important nugget in the "Netherese Fortress of Blister" sidebar on pg 23 of the adventure. Blister was built on a mountain, not at the base of it. Tilverton, to my understanding, is not on a mountaintop, but rather built against the side of it.
So my personal interpretation/preference would be that Tilverton is built at the base of the mountain that Blister capped, and probably incorporates some bits of the old fortress that have tumbled off the top. The remaining accessible pieces have undoubtedly been scavenged by humanoids and merchants.
This is based on skimming through the adventure for the maps, though. If there's more specific info in the text, I probably missed it. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 10 Nov 2015 00:08:24 |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2015 : 01:32:00
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I just pasted together the Netheril Arcane Age map and I believe we can actually see the following landmarks when compared with the 5th edition map Mike Schley is selling I believe that:
* Hidden Lake = the dried out lake bed in the centre of Anauroch.
* Basin Lake = the dried out lake bed along the desertmouth mountains. Therefore
* God's Legion Mountains = Desertmouth Mountains.
This would firmly place where Blister is on the Arcane Age map exactly where Tilverton is (the map of Blister doesn't have it on the top of the mountain despite the description of Blister suggesting that's where it is). This matches up the two maps pretty good and lets me place the rest of the settlements across the Anauroch Desert. Thanks for everyone's help :) |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2015 : 02:01:32
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It's a thought-provoking project. Have fun.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2015 : 23:51:09
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
I just pasted together the Netheril Arcane Age map and I believe we can actually see the following landmarks when compared with the 5th edition map Mike Schley is selling I believe that:
* Hidden Lake = the dried out lake bed in the centre of Anauroch.
* Basin Lake = the dried out lake bed along the desertmouth mountains. Therefore
* God's Legion Mountains = Desertmouth Mountains.
This would firmly place where Blister is on the Arcane Age map exactly where Tilverton is (the map of Blister doesn't have it on the top of the mountain despite the description of Blister suggesting that's where it is). This matches up the two maps pretty good and lets me place the rest of the settlements across the Anauroch Desert. Thanks for everyone's help :)
I think I came to this same conclusion quite some time ago. I recall it being VERY close (if not under Tilverton, in the general vicinity).
The easiest way to do this is to place the map from the Netheril box directly over the map from the Anauroch supplement - they line-up PERFECTLY. I had a glass table where I used to do this super-imposing on, before computers made that sort of thing easier. If you don't have those two physical products, then you have a lot of pasting to do. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Nov 2015 23:51:46 |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2015 : 23:58:17
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| Unfortunately I don't have either of those physical products. Although I tend to be more comfortable with PCs. Out of interest which is the better book (for purposes other than mapping): FR13 Anauroch or Anauroch: Empire of Shades? |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
Edited by - JohnLynch on 09 Nov 2015 23:59:12 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2015 : 00:00:26
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| Would that maybe have something to do with the fact that Tilverton was over run with magic from the Shades during 3rd edition? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2015 : 00:13:30
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
ut of interest which is the better book (for purposes other than mapping): FR13 Anauroch or Anauroch: Empire of Shades?
I don't think they really overlap much. FR13 is a sourcebook about Anauroch, and while some ruins from Old Netheril are mentioned there isn't much lore regarding Netheril... and Shade hadn't returned yet, so there's Nothing about 3e/4e Netheril.
Empire of Shade is an adventure, and it's about New Netheril. Not sure how much is in there about Anauroch because I haven't read it carefully, but I'm guessing not much related to the original state of the desert because Shade was trying to terraform it back to the way it was pre-Fall.
So I think they're both cool for what they address, but they're kinda apples & oranges.  |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2015 : 00:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Empire of Shade is an adventure
Thanks. I keep forgetting it's an adventure. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 10 Nov 2015 : 02:17:45
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch
Unfortunately I don't have either of those physical products. Although I tend to be more comfortable with PCs. Out of interest which is the better book (for purposes other than mapping): FR13 Anauroch or Anauroch: Empire of Shades?
FR13 wins between the two, IMHO. It hints at what Ed Greenwood originally had in mind for Netheril before the Arcane Age boxed set was published. |
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Location of Blister (Netheril ruins)
