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mastermustard
Seeker
USA
78 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Sep 2015 : 16:55:52
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I was wondering if there were any groups or organizations of note in the realms that frequently employ modern Earth-like terrorist methods to further their goals, whatever they may be. For example, someone casts a fireball spell on themselves in a crowded marketplace, or a meteor swarm spell on a government building.
Anyone heard of something like this?
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2015 : 17:03:39
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| Tons of Holy Slayer organizations operate in Zakhara, each furthering the goals of their particular religion through political intimidation or assassination if necessary. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 21 Sep 2015 17:03:53 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2015 : 17:05:30
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quote:
Originally posted by mastermustard
For example, someone casts a fireball spell on themselves in a crowded marketplace...
Why not just cast the fireball on the marketplace and live to do it again another day? Throwing magic into the mix with terrorist groups changes things up a bit. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2015 : 17:56:14
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The one that springs to mind for me is the Eldreth Veluuthra or Victorious Blades of the People. As a group they do use terror tactics to further their goal of Elvin Racial supremacy. They usually use assassination, but in my mind they try to make it clear why the person was killed, so to discourage others from getting involved in inter-racial affairs. They would specifically target anyone trying to improve relations between Elves and other races (mostly humans) and make it clear that such efforts are NOT desired.
Silverymoon for example would be a prime target for market attacks as it is a well known gathering point for humans and elves. It was built to be a reflection of lost Myth Drannor, and the audacity of humans trying to recreate Myth Drannor probably infuriates them.
As for suicide bombing, at first I was agreeing that there was no need for it. Fireballs and Meteor Swarms can be "activated" from a distance. There is one possibility however, If an agent knows that he or she is going to be captured and killed, a suicide attack that takes as many enemies with them as possible may be preferable to the indignity of being captured and executed by your foe. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2015 : 18:03:41
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quote:
Originally posted by mastermustard
I was wondering if there were any groups or organizations of note in the realms that frequently employ modern Earth-like terrorist methods to further their goals, whatever they may be. For example, someone casts a fireball spell on themselves in a crowded marketplace, or a meteor swarm spell on a government building.
Anyone heard of something like this?
Canonically, the Zhentarim have always been prepared to use terror attacks to enforce their will. From a strict modern political science standpoint, however, these were only properly termed 'terrorist' attacks when the organisation acted without the sanction and support of the government of Zhentil Keep and (in recent years), other governments which are dominated by the Church of Bane and/or the Zhentarim.
The Eldreth Veluuthra are a textbook terrorist organisation, as well. Some of what the agents of the Cult of the Dragon, the Twisted Rune, the Knights of the Shield and the Iron Throne have done in pursuit of their goals has also met all classical definitions of 'terrorism'. As do the political activities of the Night Masks and the Shadowmasters of Telflamm, as well as many other assassins' and thieves' guilds.
Much of what the Churches of Cyric, Shar, Talos and Talona get up to is also terrorist activity. Stormlords engage in destructive lightning attacks on ships, buildings and crowded areas, Talontar spread disease, a form of terrorist biological warfare, Cyricists and Sharrans have both carried out both targeted attacks and random slayings designed to cause fear, horror and despair, etc.
Groups which I can't recall ever having been canonically described as using terrorist tactics, but which are logical prospects for it, are also widespread. Those include beleaguared wood elf bands which haven't joined the Retreat, groups dedicated to ending slavery and other anti-slavers, non-state actors who fight piracy and smuggling, and any non-state actor opposing a legitimate state.
In my campaign, there are numerous organisations of freed slaves and sympathisers who carry out terrorist acts against Chondath, Chessenta, Unther, Mulhorand, Murghom, Semphar, Thay, the Pirate Isles, the Moonsea city-states and Sembia. Some of those are the Broken Chains, Lord Dama's Non-Slaves, Ghosts of the Mines, the Free, Swords of Liberty, Brides of Retribution, Shattered Manacles, the Revenants, Seething Cauldron of Wrath, Children of the Harems, Knives-from-Chains, Nemesis of the Masters, Ruin of Empires and Vengeance of the Despised. |
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Gurgle Gobblespit
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2015 : 02:53:18
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In my (5th Ed) campaign, I'll be adding another "Player Faction" (yes I sorta like the idea of PC-joinable factions, even if not playing in the AL)…. and the faction is called The Refuge. The Refuge had its roots decades ago from a successful gladiatorial slave rebellion in Calimshan. (Yes, borrowed the idea from Spartacus). To that end, the Refuge morphed into a widespread faction that aims to stamp out slavery, fight oppression, and to root out oppressors, tyrants and slavers. So clearly, they will even resort to hit-and-run tactics similar to rebellious or terrorist activities.
The Refuge is unique in that its membership includes a lot of society's "ne'er-do-wells" such as Half-Orcs, other half-breeds, former criminals, current criminals, escaped slaves, etc. And yet, they are not a bunch of simple thugs… because they have a noble cause. They genuinely have a grievance against oppressors and slavers. The average member of the Refuge possibly has more of a heart than a typical member of the Zhentarim faction.
I'd like to post the complete write-up of The Refuge (an additional faction for 5e) here in Candlekeep, if I can figure out the right sub-forum to post it. |
Edited by - Gurgle Gobblespit on 22 Sep 2015 02:58:23 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2015 : 04:23:56
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Some non-traditional evil groups that could be nudged in that direction would be the Moonstars and the Emerald Enclave. The Cowled Wizards of Amn (non-BG version, but canon version from the Lands of Intrigue) could also be nudged in that direction as well.
It's important to remember that terrorism is a tactic and it is often political in nature. As a result, potentially any group--especially groups with an ideological agenda--can be nudged in that direction under the right circumstances. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2015 : 14:15:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Some non-traditional evil groups that could be nudged in that direction would be the Moonstars and the Emerald Enclave.
Right. The Emerald Enclave is also a canon textbook terrorist organisation. Forgot them above, which is weird, because I've even used them in my campaign.
The Moonstars are not, at least not according to any canon I've read. They may be a non-state actor willing to violate local laws in the pursuance of their political goals, but their methods have not henceforth had any connotation of causing fear among a target populace as a lever to reach their goals. And unless they ran false-flag terrorist operations like the Twisted Rune or the Knights of the Shield, it is difficult to see how terrorism could be compatible with their clandestine nature.
Terrorist groups may hide their bases, the identify of members and leaders and operational plans or data, but they will usually not be able to generate terror and notoriety, let alone take political advantage of it, if they are unwilling to allow their political causes to become known in any form. |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
662 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2015 : 15:40:55
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| Revolutionary League from Sigil |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2015 : 22:40:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Some non-traditional evil groups that could be nudged in that direction would be the Moonstars and the Emerald Enclave.
Right. The Emerald Enclave is also a canon textbook terrorist organisation. Forgot them above, which is weird, because I've even used them in my campaign.
The Moonstars are not, at least not according to any canon I've read. They may be a non-state actor willing to violate local laws in the pursuance of their political goals, but their methods have not henceforth had any connotation of causing fear among a target populace as a lever to reach their goals. And unless they ran false-flag terrorist operations like the Twisted Rune or the Knights of the Shield, it is difficult to see how terrorism could be compatible with their clandestine nature.
Terrorist groups may hide their bases, the identify of members and leaders and operational plans or data, but they will usually not be able to generate terror and notoriety, let alone take political advantage of it, if they are unwilling to allow their political causes to become known in any form.
It's not a matter of them being a clandestine group, it's a matter of them being a group dedicated to bringing about a certain political ideology.
I don't dispute that the Moonstars and the Harpers haven't been used as terrorist groups in canon up until now. However, all of the elements are there just waiting to be invoked. Terrorism is, at it's core, a political tactic.
Perhaps even more importantly, who a terrorist is often depends on your perspective. Your Terrorists Are Our Freedom Fighters is a trope as old as dirt. All you really need to do to get a group like the Harpers or Moonstars to be seen as terrorists is to play from the perspective of a group like the Zhents. I've used the Harpers as a terrorist group in that manner before, and the Moonstars are more morally flexible than the Harpers. It just so happens that the bulk of the time we are seeing things from the perspective of the Harpers and similar groups, and therefore it is easier to identify and be sympathetic to them.
There is nothing stopping the Harpers from engaging in mass assassination against the Zhents. Nothing prevents them from trying to blow up Temples dedicated to Bane murdering his faithful en masse, as an example. Neither of these things would be inconsistent with the values that Harpers hold, especially where the lawful governments are not sympathetic or hostile toward the Harpers and their goals. |
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2015 : 22:58:26
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| For terrorists to exist you need easy rapid communication (according to what I learned in political science classes). So any terrorist group would need magical communication to coordinate activities |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2015 : 23:20:40
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quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
For terrorists to exist you need easy rapid communication (according to what I learned in political science classes). So any terrorist group would need magical communication to coordinate activities
Hmm, not sure you need rapid communication, though it clearly makes it easier to get message out faster and to many more.
Gangs have terrorized cities for hundreds of years or at least sections of them. The Witch hunts of Europe is something like 500 to 800 years old to terrorize non believers (heretics were always worst then any real Witch).
In the Realms if a group is acting for a deity, the deity clearly place dreams of act happened in even non believers. Ed has spoke of this that deities can not prevent their followers from receiving dream messages from other deities. So rapid communication clearly would also appear possible. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Gurgle Gobblespit
Acolyte
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2015 : 11:45:57
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Good points Kentinal. Also it would have been possible for such cabals to have used low-tech means for rapid communications. The old Native Americans used smoke signals for rapid communication for dozens of miles away. And hey, so did the human kingdoms in Middle Earth — just as we saw of the "fire signal outposts" (stationed above mountaintops) in the Lord of the Rings movies.
And even the American Revolutionaries supposedly had access to low-tech cryptic communication using lighthouses and bell-towers…. just as we are reminded by the Midnight Ride of Paul Revere. One if by Land, two if by Sea. The rebels would signal each other and would know if the invading British forces would be arriving by land or by sea. They would have time to prepare. The Midnight Ride poem is likely fiction and non-historical. But the signaling technology that it mentions really did exist in that era.
Would magical communications (e.g. scrying balls and such) greatly assist the terror groups? Of course. But just because the group lacks magical communications does not mean they couldn't use the alternative low-tech methods above.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2015 : 14:35:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit
Would magical communications (e.g. scrying balls and such) greatly assist the terror groups? Of course. But just because the group lacks magical communications does not mean they couldn't use the alternative low-tech methods above.
Another point is that using low tech ( or no tech) communication when your enemy is trying to find you with high tech methods, often makes the low tech guy invisible. Russell Crow's character in the movie Body of Lies talks about this as it pertains to middle east issues. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2015 : 16:34:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
For terrorists to exist you need easy rapid communication (according to what I learned in political science classes). So any terrorist group would need magical communication to coordinate activities
Hmm, not sure you need rapid communication, though it clearly makes it easier to get message out faster and to many more.
Gangs have terrorized cities for hundreds of years or at least sections of them. The Witch hunts of Europe is something like 500 to 800 years old to terrorize non believers (heretics were always worst then any real Witch).
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit
Would magical communications (e.g. scrying balls and such) greatly assist the terror groups? Of course. But just because the group lacks magical communications does not mean they couldn't use the alternative low-tech methods above.
Another point is that using low tech ( or no tech) communication when your enemy is trying to find you with high tech methods, often makes the low tech guy invisible. Russell Crow's character in the movie Body of Lies talks about this as it pertains to middle east issues.
The connection between terrorism and mass communication is not about the tactical and operational utility of high-tech communication, which is a force multiplier for both regular forces and irregular forces.
Rather, it is the fact that the use of terrorism as a political tool is contingent upon the target population having access to information on the acts of terror. Without cheap and widespread mass communication, i.e. printing, radio, television, Internet or something which can serve the same purpose, terror tactics simply do not work on a very large scale, at least not within a timeframe that is useful for typical political goals.
You could terrorise a neighbourhood with low-tech communication methods, with word of mouth spreading awareness of threats and acts of terror, but while the methods and tactics used may be terroristic, it's questionable whether the goals would count as political. Control of criminal turf, profit and street cred are usually not accorded the status of 'political' goals by political scientists.
Relying on word-of-mouth to spread awareness of threats and terrorist acts, however, sharply limits the extent to which terrorism is useful on a larger scale, national or otherwise, as a tool for influencing public opinion, co-opt official agenda setting power and exert pressure on ruling regimes.
Without mass communication to spread awareness of threats, acts of terror and the cause which the terrorism is meant to serve, terrorism still has all the negative consequences we are familiar with from the modern day, such as prompting retaliatory violence by a state or other polity, but it lacks much of an ability to focus public discourse on the cause being championed. Not to mention that without mass communications, there are seldom many limits on the scale of official response to terrorism or the methods that can be used to counter it.
To take an example, very little prevents polities at low-tech levels from responding to terrorism by killing everyone who might support it, razing all cities and structures near where it happens and salting the ground. And make no mistake, this is an effective way to deal with it at those tech levels. It may not be moral and it might not be the most practical method, but it does work to '[make] a desert and call it peace'. You don't sow the fruits of future rebellion among a defeated people if there is no one left to rebel.
Zealot terrorism in Judea succeeded in prompting an official response that more-or-less ended the existence of the whole nation. Its other effects on public opinion in Rome or the agenda setting of Roman politics, however, were minimal. It is unlikely that anyone outside the province had much of an idea what the cause of the Zealots might have been, before or after they were utterly broken, along with the rest of the province. |
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Edited by - Icelander on 24 Sep 2015 16:35:31 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2015 : 00:19:59
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The Broken Sword (Polyhedron #95)
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2015 : 21:58:03
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| Terrorism is really a relative thing and I'm wary about people naturally gravitating towards the pseudo-Muslim regions(Calimshan, Al-Qadim, Semphar) with them. Rich people terrorism is more interesting anyway - Noble families involved with Devil cults, corrupt trade organisations, slavers etc instead of 1st level wizard suicide bombers |
Edited by - Roseweave on 29 Sep 2015 21:58:43 |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2015 : 01:56:25
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The Broken Sword (Polyhedron #95)
-- George Krashos
That was interesting to reread. It's been so long I've forgot that one. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2015 : 13:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
Terrorism is really a relative thing and I'm wary about people naturally gravitating towards the pseudo-Muslim regions(Calimshan, Al-Qadim, Semphar) with them. Rich people terrorism is more interesting anyway - Noble families involved with Devil cults, corrupt trade organisations, slavers etc instead of 1st level wizard suicide bombers
Slavers, devil worshippers and corrupt trade organisations are usually not terrorists. They can be villaious, make for excellent foils and be easy to morally condemn by pretty much anyone, but that does not make them 'terrorists'.
If you are not a non-state actor working toward a political goal with violent terror methods, you can't be a terrorist. If your goal is personal enrichment (many slavers, most corrupt trade organisation), that doesn't qualify. If your goal is a personal vendetta or has to do with a private relationship (many devil worshippers in fiction), it doesn't qualify.
Slavers tend to flourish where slavery is perfectly legal and terrorists are much more likely to be the ones attacking it. Ending slavery is a political goal that lends itself easily to being supported through terror tactics. Profiting from the institution isn't political and it generally doesn't involve any of the methods of terrorism. The power asymmetry pretty much has to be in favour of the slavers or the institution wouldn't work very well. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2015 : 18:00:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
Slavers, devil worshippers and corrupt trade organisations are usually not terrorists. They can be villaious, make for excellent foils and be easy to morally condemn by pretty much anyone, but that does not make them 'terrorists'.
If you are not a non-state actor working toward a political goal with violent terror methods, you can't be a terrorist. If your goal is personal enrichment (many slavers, most corrupt trade organisation), that doesn't qualify. If your goal is a personal vendetta or has to do with a private relationship (many devil worshippers in fiction), it doesn't qualify.
Slavers tend to flourish where slavery is perfectly legal and terrorists are much more likely to be the ones attacking it. Ending slavery is a political goal that lends itself easily to being supported through terror tactics. Profiting from the institution isn't political and it generally doesn't involve any of the methods of terrorism. The power asymmetry pretty much has to be in favour of the slavers or the institution wouldn't work very well.
A better way to depict terrorism in a fantasy setting would be to simplify the definition. Although I disagree with it, there is the trope that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Using that definition, you can have 'good' examples of terrorism, like John Brown would have been considered by a pre-Civil War south. You can stretch that definition as far as you need, making terrorism an extreme form asymmetric warfare.
A real definition of terrorism would be 'actors' willing to use violence against civilian as well as military targets to achieve a political goal. |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2015 : 22:14:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
A better way to depict terrorism in a fantasy setting would be to simplify the definition. Although I disagree with it, there is the trope that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. Using that definition, you can have 'good' examples of terrorism, like John Brown would have been considered by a pre-Civil War south. You can stretch that definition as far as you need, making terrorism an extreme form asymmetric warfare.
Terrorism is an extreme form of asymmetric warfare, whether in reality or fantasy. John Brown certainly qualifies, as his raid on Harper's Ferry did not have any sensible military objective and was designed to provoke an uprising that would never be able to accomplish anything in military terms, but would spread fear among slave-owners in the border areas.
quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
A real definition of terrorism would be 'actors' willing to use violence against civilian as well as military targets to achieve a political goal.
That's not so. If you are using violence to accomplish military goals, that is not terrorism. Furthermore, if your violence is explicitly designed to remove threats or obstacles while concealing not only the source, but perhaps the fact that these violent acts are connected (or happening at all), you aren't making use of terror as part of your tactics.
The poisoning of a father or brother by the next heir is not terrorism, even though it is violence used to accomplish a political goal by a non-state actor. The violence is being used to remove obstacles in the way of a desired solution and is not meant to generate fear and terror that is in itself a tool for pursuing a political goal.
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2015 : 17:20:36
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quote:
Originally posted by mastermustard
I was wondering if there were any groups or organizations of note in the realms that frequently employ modern Earth-like terrorist methods to further their goals, whatever they may be. For example, someone casts a fireball spell on themselves in a crowded marketplace, or a meteor swarm spell on a government building.
Anyone heard of something like this?
Sure, some adventurers are essentially terrorists.
The Knights of Myth Drannor are probably on the most wanted list in Zhentil Keep. ;)
Non state actor?
Check.
Use violent methods?
Check.
Ideological motivation?
IIf you are all about smiling the evil doers, freeing slaves, and so on...
Sow fear to achieve political ends?
Sure, a good deal of this going on.
Many adventuring parties seem more like brigands or mercenaries than terrorists, but that is a line that can get fuzzy.
--------
RE the Harpers, they look like terrorists to me. Don't they launch terrorist attacks on their enemies all the time?
"Your mission is to enter the Dungeon of Slimy VIleness and clear it of orcs and other baddies. Reports indicate a large Orc settlement. Destroy it. If you meet any humans, be wary. We think these orcs are in contact with the Zhentarim. "
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 01 Oct 2015 17:57:24 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2450 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2015 : 18:17:37
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I'm a bit late to this thread, but I did want to respond to what Icelander said back on 9/24 about the need for high-speed communication. I don't think it's necessary in all instances, and I'll use the original RW assassins as an example.
Now, granted that they didn't try to terrorize the entire world, or even the entire Muslim world, they did effectively terrorize much of the Near East in what's today Syria and Iraq. They lasted for centuries, finally falling to a completely different force than those that had been trying to destroy them (the Mongols).
Part of what allowed them to be successful as terrorists (as opposed to succeeding in enacting their political ideals) was their targeting important people, and their willingness to trade their lives to be as showy as possible.
If you walk up to someone in the middle of a busy market, shout their supposed crimes for all to hear, and kill them as bloodily as possible, word is going to spread quickly. Especially when we're talking about a place with such extensive and well-developed trade networks. You don't need word to spread instantly, just that it spreads. As the assassins proved, they certainly made an impression.
Getting back to the OP, the holy slayers of Zakhara, which are modeled after the Assassins, would fit your definition. Each brotherhood has a certain political agenda, and they kill anyone who tries to thwart it in as public a manner as possible. The only one that might have difficulty with the definition is the Soft Whisper, since I'm not sure you can technically use terrorist tactics in support of the government. But they're too public to call them covert operatives. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2015 : 18:26:57
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All in all, I tend to agree with Icelander about the RW definitions.
I'm not sure terrorism is even a category I'd bother to use in play. that is, I don't think the word would show up IMC, unless a PC coined it. FR has nothing like a commonly held understanding of sovereign nation states with a monopoly on force, does it? Or a well defined system of international law?
Armed bands of men going about killing, robbing, and raiding is not only a thing that is allowed in many regions, but something that is considered admirable and good if these armed bands are striking the right targets. |
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2015 : 18:50:29
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Not sure one can not say terrorism is not used against military forces, after all there are recent reports of mass desertions because of a much weaker force was attacking with a history of what they did to any captives.
Also attacks on military installations in itself certainly can hurt recruiting to maintain full strength during conflict.
A recruiting poster of:
"Join up today to protect your government, if you die your family will be well paid. Chance of survival a four year term is currently 25 percent. Come and join us and help protect the forces that protect you. Good people can help increase the survival rate. Join now good sign up bonuses."
Likely will not attract many people unless they have a death wish or seek vengeance. Might be only job in town, however then odds are good will desert if concerned about becoming on of the 75 percent that dies before end of four years. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2015 : 19:25:21
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Of course, when you operate by murdering all the prisoners you capture, the enemy has zero incentive to surrender. And no reason to accept your surrender unless he intends to extract information from you. Probably not in a way you will enjoy! Extermination starts to look not just acceptable, but flat out necessary.
This is relevant to the game, IMO.
Intelligent baddies in my games will fairly often accept surrenders. Not because they are merciful, but so they can acquire slaves or hostages to sell or ransom. Of course there are sadistic killers out there, and cultists looking for human sacrifices. Some intelligent monsters eat people. But by no means all of the,, or all the time. And if a group of adventurers that has gained a reputation as ruthless killers gets captured, the goblins, bandits, or whoever it was that captured them might decide killing them is just safer and smarter. Revenge may also be a factor.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 01 Oct 2015 19:42:30 |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2015 : 23:32:15
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
All in all, I tend to agree with Icelander about the RW definitions.
I'm not sure terrorism is even a category I'd bother to use in play. that is, I don't think the word would show up IMC, unless a PC coined it. FR has nothing like a commonly held understanding of sovereign nation states with a monopoly on force, does it? Or a well defined system of international law?
Terrorism is a rather modern definition, and moral relativism tends to cloud the differences between good guy and the bad guys. Heroic adventures would meet the definition of terrorists in an evil region, like your example above.
quote:
Armed bands of men going about killing, robbing, and raiding is not only a thing that is allowed in many regions, but something that is considered admirable and good if these armed bands are striking the right targets.
Robin Hood comes to mind as an example, if not a perfect example. |
Edited by - Rymac on 01 Oct 2015 23:33:04 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2015 : 01:35:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
All in all, I tend to agree with Icelander about the RW definitions.
I'm not sure terrorism is even a category I'd bother to use in play. that is, I don't think the word would show up IMC, unless a PC coined it. FR has nothing like a commonly held understanding of sovereign nation states with a monopoly on force, does it? Or a well defined system of international law?
Terrorism is a rather modern definition, and moral relativism tends to cloud the differences between good guy and the bad guys. Heroic adventures would meet the definition of terrorists in an evil region, like your example above.
quote:
Armed bands of men going about killing, robbing, and raiding is not only a thing that is allowed in many regions, but something that is considered admirable and good if these armed bands are striking the right targets.
Robin Hood comes to mind as an example, if not a perfect example.
Indeed!
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KigtTx65df8/ToZr7JlgmsI/AAAAAAAABUk/PL7_HxEngvA/s1600/Robin-Hood-walt-disneys-robin-hood.jpg
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Terrorist groups in Faerun
