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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Sep 2015 : 22:21:05
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Okay I know this is a Realms site but I just came across this and was wondering if anyone had any insights about this entity and how they'd connect it to the Realms? Likely a primordial but read the description, it may be one of Asmodeus' guises. I'd love to tie it to the Realms somehow but prefer a canon reference rather than just dropping it in.
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Serpent
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I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2015 : 01:22:21
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If it is a sentience, it is above that of a greater god. The Serpent was a feature of one of the final 2e modules, "Die Vecna, Die" where it guided Vecna on not only how to escape Ravenloft (and ascend to greater god status) but also how to enter Sigil (where gods were barred entry). At all times mentioned, Vecna takes on the role of a student of the entity. To my knowledge, it has never been referenced in any FR specific lore. The tie to Planescape in DvD is the closest you will get.
As for dropping it in, the following comes off the top of my head.
As far as the Realms are concerned, I would probably characterize it as a truly neutral force representing all of arcane magic that may stir itself only enough to drop powerful secrets to the greatest living arcanists so that it may be better "known." What the mortals may do with the insights they receive is does not concern the entity (hence how it can support the most evil lich in history). Mystra and the Weave can serve as a form of check on the entity interfering in Faerun, as some of the wizards powerful enough to rouse the Serpent tend to be very destructive. Since Mystra and the Weave represent life to an extent, they place some limits to slow that down.
Karsus could be a good candidate to have received inspiration from the Serpent, whether conscious or not. It may have planted the seeds of Karsus' avatar. Ioulaum is another good candidate who may have been inspired to set up enclaves by the Serpent and for countless other projects up to the present day. Perhaps the Srinshee communed with the entity at some point or another.
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Edited by - Veritas on 18 Sep 2015 01:23:37 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2015 : 13:33:34
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The problem is that it was never intended to be an actual entity. Rather, it was just supposed to be an element of Vecna's own madness and a name that Vecna applied to magic personified. Later sources went a different direction and made it an actual entity and made some vague claims about it and The Lady of Pain being of similar power.
At no point however was it linked to Asmodeus. There were some fan theories linking the name 'The Serpent' with the fact that some editions have claimed that Asmodeus's true form is a giant, wounded serpent in Nessus. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2015 : 14:59:26
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I understand that it's the "official" game material you're referencing, but as far as explaining it in game terms there are a couple of possibilities.
The entity made some think that it was just an element of Vecna's fractured mind, and this story was spread thus creating the Lore indicating this. It may have been misunderstanding, misinformation, or even the entity itself hiding it's true nature.
Another possibility is that the Entity truly was a Fragment of Venca's mind, but it developed into a separate sentience and was empowered by the beliefs of those who read stories and legends about it.
My preference is this is indeed an ancient entity predating the birth of Oearth and Toril. The main reason for this is the things he allowed Vecna to do. The secrets of how to escape from Ravenloft and how to enter Sigil are things only the oldest, most powerful, and most knowledgeable beings in existence would know. I don't believe for a moment that Vecna, or some fractured portion of his mind, figured these out on his own.
I very much like Veritas' idea that the Serpent may have influenced Karsus. Perhaps it nudged Karsus toward selecting Mystrl as the target of his spell to remove her, allowing him to slip in and control the Weave on Toril, or perhaps it simply sought to cause the destruction and Chaos that followed.
As for other ideas of where the Serpent may have had influence, I could definitely see him influencing the Sarukh and possibly even having a hand in creating the Nether Scrolls. He may also have introduced the Imaskari to dimensional magic that became so prevalent in their civilization. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 19 Sep 2015 : 03:53:39
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| you know the serpent could be another name for the spilt up World SErpent..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 20 Sep 2015 : 16:38:24
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| Personally, my take would be to make the serpent a vestige OR a patron for warlocks that's stuck in the Far Realms. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Alefian
Acolyte
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2015 : 19:52:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Okay I know this is a Realms site but I just came across this and was wondering if anyone had any insights about this entity and how they'd connect it to the Realms? Likely a primordial but read the description, it may be one of Asmodeus' guises. I'd love to tie it to the Realms somehow but prefer a canon reference rather than just dropping it in.
http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Serpent
I personally envision the Serpent to be more of a personification of magic. The D&D 3rd edition Epic Level Handbook references the Serpent in this manner. And for me, this keeps the Serpent mysterious. I recall (what Shemmy has already posted) Monte Cook mentioning at some point that the Serpent was simply a part of Vecna's insanity.
Although it's interesting to have the Serpent linked to the "Ancient Brethren" along with the Lady of Pain, Asmodeus, and Jazirian, I don't prefer this definition of the Serpent in my campaign.
- Alefian |
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The Serpent
