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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 06:53:34
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Should the weave have been kept a vague concept or should it never have seen the light of day?
The reason I ask this is because it's turned into an endless, and annoying, battle where the goddess of magic just seems like a blundering idiot who get's killed on a regular basis and where magic is left entirely too exposed. We also constantly have other gods trying to take it away and mortals having to contain the power in themselves.
I just think the whole concept has gotten out of hand to the point where we are getting a lot of cheese in order to fix this here or back track there etc.....
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 07:39:05
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the idiocy and polluted concept are more to do with the ip owners than the idea. Much of the realms contains brilliant ideas that are slowly (and not so slowly) being dumbed down and eroded into a blancmange like soup of generic flavour.
Nothing is safe from the kult of kewl.
If you don't like the garbage then don't buy it.
Pretty much this. The Weave was (and could be) a great and elegant concept to implement in game as a unifying theory/rule/physics of the setting. It can probably still be that. The hokey-ness stems mostly from the overactive pantheon melodrama and the Mystra-in-a-fridge story crutch they keep using for the metaplot.
Kult of Kewl. I like that. This should become a thing. Like the Rule of Cool in brain-craving, mindless undead form.
Kill the Kult of Kool with fire, and headshots! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 13:07:44
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Yes and No.
Lore and story wise, Yes. it works better as 'mysterious'.
But FR is part of the D&D GAME world, and therefor needs rules. Not that whatever rules we got concerning The weave were consistent or any good, but we had to have them, because 'vague' doesn't really work within a set of rules.
So FR itself didn't need all the nitty-gritty details, but D&D did. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2015 21:30:39 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 13:29:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yes and No.
Lore and story wise, Yes. it works better as 'mysterious'.
Why? That would just make for yet another ''mysterious'' magic. Having a little info on how it *works* (as in, how it manages to produce effects) is a good thing, even lore/story-wise. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 14:45:13
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the idiocy and polluted concept are more to do with the ip owners than the idea. Much of the realms contains brilliant ideas that are slowly (and not so slowly) being dumbed down and eroded into a blancmange like soup of generic flavour.
Nothing is safe from the kult of kewl.
If you don't like the garbage then don't buy it.
What ideas do you like that have been dumbed down or mishandled by the Kult of Kewl? It's probably a valid criticism, but it's also a vague one.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 15:17:44
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| Right now the weave seems like a toy that several children are fighting over. I don't think it should be something that is so tangible. At the moment, it's too easy for a being to tamper with it, steal it, or change it. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 17:05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Should the weave have been kept a vague concept or should it never have seen the light of day?
The reason I ask this is because it's turned into an endless, and annoying, battle where the goddess of magic just seems like a blundering idiot who get's killed on a regular basis and where magic is left entirely too exposed. We also constantly have other gods trying to take it away and mortals having to contain the power in themselves.
It has nothing to do with the weave being "vague" or "clear" concept.
And everything to do with editors, managers and other corporate drones being in position to dictate their "creative" ideas to actual authors and designers despite having brains comparable to that of a week-long beached goldfish.
Hence herding the copycats. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 17:13:42
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Okay, we really can do without comments like that. Disagree with corporate decisions all you want, but don't launch attacks like that at the people making them.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Sep 2015 17:29:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 17:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the idiocy and polluted concept are more to do with the ip owners than the idea. Much of the realms contains brilliant ideas that are slowly (and not so slowly) being dumbed down and eroded into a blancmange like soup of generic flavour.
Nothing is safe from the kult of kewl.
If you don't like the garbage then don't buy it.
What ideas do you like that have been dumbed down or mishandled by the Kult of Kewl? It's probably a valid criticism, but it's also a vague one.
For me, the answer to your question is Mystra, her Chosen, the Weave, even Shade (as much as I've complained about it) -- all of these are good ideas that have been mishandled, sometimes badly so.
Constantly putting Mystra and her Chosen in direct opposition to evil powers has created the "Justice League" illusion that many have fallen victim to, and adding the Weave in as a tool directly accessed by them has encouraged others to want to play with the same toys (much like the Chosen concept).
And Shade would have been so much better used as a -- pardon the pun -- shady background villain. Instead of them constantly showing up everywhere, as part of just about every evil plot that you could think of, they should have been behind the scenes manipulators, working thru layers of intermediaries and rarely appearing in the limelight.
Actually, that applies to a lot of powerful groups and individuals of the Realms. You don't get powerful by charging headlong into every single fight you can find -- but WotC, and TSR before them, prefer that approach. Screw nuance and devious plots, give us MOAR BOOM!
That's the dumbing down we've seen for too long. WotC has gone Hollywood on the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 19:13:22
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| The Twisted Rune remains one of the scariest villainous groups in my mind because of their background-based modus operandi. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 20:11:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the idiocy and polluted concept are more to do with the ip owners than the idea. Much of the realms contains brilliant ideas that are slowly (and not so slowly) being dumbed down and eroded into a blancmange like soup of generic flavour.
Nothing is safe from the kult of kewl.
If you don't like the garbage then don't buy it.
What ideas do you like that have been dumbed down or mishandled by the Kult of Kewl? It's probably a valid criticism, but it's also a vague one.
For me, the answer to your question is Mystra, her Chosen, the Weave, even Shade (as much as I've complained about it) -- all of these are good ideas that have been mishandled, sometimes badly so.
Constantly putting Mystra and her Chosen in direct opposition to evil powers has created the "Justice League" illusion that many have fallen victim to, and adding the Weave in as a tool directly accessed by them has encouraged others to want to play with the same toys (much like the Chosen concept).
And Shade would have been so much better used as a -- pardon the pun -- shady background villain. Instead of them constantly showing up everywhere, as part of just about every evil plot that you could think of, they should have been behind the scenes manipulators, working thru layers of intermediaries and rarely appearing in the limelight.
Actually, that applies to a lot of powerful groups and individuals of the Realms. You don't get powerful by charging headlong into every single fight you can find -- but WotC, and TSR before them, prefer that approach. Screw nuance and devious plots, give us MOAR BOOM!
That's the dumbing down we've seen for too long. WotC has gone Hollywood on the Realms.
I agree with this. Shade was taking on the Cult of the Dragon and the Chosen immediately upon their return. Later, they fight the Zhentarim, the remaining phaerimm, Cormyr, Myth Drannor, and Thay (at least in proxy battles).
I'm torn, because on the one hand, it got a little out of hand seeing them pop up in every novel series and run over all opposition. On the other hand, it was nice to see a villain gain momentum and be consistently successful. We all know that bad guys lose in the end, but I would like to see some bad guys have prolonged success, rather than losing at the end of every trilogy.
There was a comment in the Herald that really furthered the Justice League notion. I think it was when Shar was talking to Telamont, and Shar mentioned that with the notable exception of Szass Tam rising to power over Thay, Elminster had been there to thwart every major plot to Faerun in the last 400 years.
That line reminded me exactly of why so many people find Elminster annoying. He's literally everywhere in Faerun saving the day. So when there is an instance like Szass Tam turning Thay into an undead wasteland, the natural inclination of readers is to ask why Elminster didn't just step in and fix it by blasting Szass Tam to pieces.
Another scene that caught me is when Elminster was pimp slapping a powered up Telamont in his own throne room (which I hate, because it insulted The Most High by having him taken out like a chump). He told Telamont, as he was killing him, that he had allowed him to attain power over the centuries, hoping that Telamont would learn some humility. So what we see here is that even when a villain is really successful, it's only because Elminster is allowing them a chance to redeem themselves. Once Elminster sets his sights on a villain, the villain is casually dispatched and the story is over. |
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GungHo
Seeker
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 21:07:28
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I kind of like the weave as quantum mechanics. It's there. It doesn't matter whether you believe in it or not. You may think you can fool with it or reinterpret it. You can't. Maybe you have some different tools to interpret it, but it's still what it is and does what it does.
I don't like the weave as a thing you can put your arms around and redefine as though its entirely subjective. |
Edited by - GungHo on 08 Sep 2015 21:12:20 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 23:35:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
There was a comment in the Herald that really furthered the Justice League notion. I think it was when Shar was talking to Telamont, and Shar mentioned that with the notable exception of Szass Tam rising to power over Thay, Elminster had been there to thwart every major plot to Faerun in the last 400 years.
That line was obviously not true, though -- Shar was lying, for her own purposes. There is no way Elminster could be everywhere, and plenty of examples of plots he wasn't involved in at all -- like the return of Shade, the attack of Iakhovas, the Twisted Rune's kidnapping of Halaster Blackcloak, the whole mess with the Rage of Dragons... And the list goes on. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 00:19:31
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I get the feeling that WoTc is in destruction mode as long as it makes them money. I could see them destroy Cormyr if it made them money. It's like someone with an old comicbook collection who has it taken by someone who cares nothing for comics and would just as quickly use it for jax roll than take care of it.
Shade has been a concept around for a while now and Telemont is an enemy from a long gone age of mighty magic who was put down like a bad habit in the blink of an eye.
I'm getting to the point where I really want to walk away from 5th edition Realms because it is not turning out to be what we were led to believe. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 00:20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I think the idiocy and polluted concept are more to do with the ip owners than the idea. Much of the realms contains brilliant ideas that are slowly (and not so slowly) being dumbed down and eroded into a blancmange like soup of generic flavour.
Nothing is safe from the kult of kewl.
If you don't like the garbage then don't buy it.
What ideas do you like that have been dumbed down or mishandled by the Kult of Kewl? It's probably a valid criticism, but it's also a vague one.
For me, the answer to your question is Mystra, her Chosen, the Weave, even Shade (as much as I've complained about it) -- all of these are good ideas that have been mishandled, sometimes badly so.
Constantly putting Mystra and her Chosen in direct opposition to evil powers has created the "Justice League" illusion that many have fallen victim to, and adding the Weave in as a tool directly accessed by them has encouraged others to want to play with the same toys (much like the Chosen concept).
And Shade would have been so much better used as a -- pardon the pun -- shady background villain. Instead of them constantly showing up everywhere, as part of just about every evil plot that you could think of, they should have been behind the scenes manipulators, working thru layers of intermediaries and rarely appearing in the limelight.
Actually, that applies to a lot of powerful groups and individuals of the Realms. You don't get powerful by charging headlong into every single fight you can find -- but WotC, and TSR before them, prefer that approach. Screw nuance and devious plots, give us MOAR BOOM!
That's the dumbing down we've seen for too long. WotC has gone Hollywood on the Realms.
Not to mention that Telemont is how old again?
People that age don't live that long by making stupid mistakes. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 18:42:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, we really can do without comments like that. Disagree with corporate decisions all you want, but don't launch attacks like that at the people making them.
In your zeal to protect poor little hippos in the china shop from mildly (compared to this, for example) harsh stares, you seem to be missing the point.
And the point is that one matter has nothing to do with the other - they don't have a casual relationship.
If it was kept vague, there's no reason why exactly the same could not happen.
In addition, things "kept vague" tend to generate conflicts in sources, and the more vague, the more likely so.
Both between "canon" from different authors, and between a local interpretation and later canon.
Much like it was with infravision/darkvision. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 20:47:26
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Okay, we really can do without comments like that. Disagree with corporate decisions all you want, but don't launch attacks like that at the people making them.
In your zeal to protect poor little hippos in the china shop from mildly (compared to this, for example) harsh stares, you seem to be missing the point.
And the point is that one matter has nothing to do with the other - they don't have a casual relationship.
If it was kept vague, there's no reason why exactly the same could not happen.
In addition, things "kept vague" tend to generate conflicts in sources, and the more vague, the more likely so.
Both between "canon" from different authors, and between a local interpretation and later canon.
Much like it was with infravision/darkvision.
No, the point is it is a violation of the rules to make personal attacks, and saying someone has the brains of a dead goldfish falls into that category.
I have no disagreement with you in regards to the relevant Realmslore -- the point I was addressing was how you described the non-creative personnel at WotC. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 03:04:06
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as for Lord Shadow.
true you dont get to that age by making stupid mistakes.
Age comes with experience which can and in some does lead to over-confidence, arrogance, and other full of one's self issues; which leaves one dying in a stupid way.
Cliche isnt it? They should have done more with that scene |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 03:52:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Should the weave have been kept a vague concept or should it never have seen the light of day?
The reason I ask this is because it's turned into an endless, and annoying, battle where the goddess of magic just seems like a blundering idiot who get's killed on a regular basis and where magic is left entirely too exposed. We also constantly have other gods trying to take it away and mortals having to contain the power in themselves.
I just think the whole concept has gotten out of hand to the point where we are getting a lot of cheese in order to fix this here or back track there etc.....
YES!!! So so much of the Realms deity stuff should have been kept vague. But that's gone now so I welcome our new....well not so new overlords. |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 05:15:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I get the feeling that WoTc is in destruction mode as long as it makes them money. I could see them destroy Cormyr if it made them money. It's like someone with an old comicbook collection who has it taken by someone who cares nothing for comics and would just as quickly use it for jax roll than take care of it.
Shade has been a concept around for a while now and Telemont is an enemy from a long gone age of mighty magic who was put down like a bad habit in the blink of an eye.
I'm getting to the point where I really want to walk away from 5th edition Realms because it is not turning out to be what we were led to believe.
I truly don't comprehend the doomsaying, because the comic book collection analogy already happened back in 4th Edition. 5th Edition is us rebuilding the collection... And people are coming back to the game now, so I'm optimistic.
Admittedly, I suppose that part of my contentment with 5th edition Realms is rooted in the fact that it has brought people back to D&D. And that I don't make a connection in my own mind between the Realms Novels and any particular edition of the Realms in the D&D game. So, I think the 5th Edition Realms as part of the D&D game, has delivered... And the authors of the novels will continue to write whatever they want to write. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 06:39:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I get the feeling that WoTc is in destruction mode as long as it makes them money. I could see them destroy Cormyr if it made them money. It's like someone with an old comicbook collection who has it taken by someone who cares nothing for comics and would just as quickly use it for jax roll than take care of it.
Shade has been a concept around for a while now and Telemont is an enemy from a long gone age of mighty magic who was put down like a bad habit in the blink of an eye.
I'm getting to the point where I really want to walk away from 5th edition Realms because it is not turning out to be what we were led to believe.
I truly don't comprehend the doomsaying, because the comic book collection analogy already happened back in 4th Edition. 5th Edition is us rebuilding the collection... And people are coming back to the game now, so I'm optimistic.
Admittedly, I suppose that part of my contentment with 5th edition Realms is rooted in the fact that it has brought people back to D&D. And that I don't make a connection in my own mind between the Realms Novels and any particular edition of the Realms in the D&D game. So, I think the 5th Edition Realms as part of the D&D game, has delivered... And the authors of the novels will continue to write whatever they want to write.
Basically ever edition has "brought" people back to D&D, this edition doesn't hold anything special for that. Also, the problem is that the Realms is not becoming what they made it seem. You can't bring about all this return to the old Realms but then turn around and cause damage in other areas. I really don't see much of an improvement from 4th edition to be honest. We are still getting the whole change for the sake of change thing and it's not good. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6447 Posts |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 13:14:04
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I haven't perceived 5th edition as change for the sake of change, but I suppose on some level I'm holding out my judgement on what constitutes the 5th Edition Realms until I take a look at the quality of the Sword Coast sourcebook in November... Perhaps my perspective will shift at that point, but I will remain optimistic as long as the Realms remains the canvas upon which the D&D game is presented.
...I'm on the same page as Dazzlerdal about the Shades constantly causing me to have this reaction:  |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2015 : 22:26:05
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My biggest problem with the concept, which I actually like, is the problem about interplannar magic. If a wizard cant cast spells in a deadmagic zone i.e. a place where the weave is not pressent, then how can he cast magic places where the weave is not present? As in other planes or crystal pheres...
In that sense, I do feel that the weave as a concept could have been held more vague, and not have been done as an almost physical web that encompassed the crystal sphere of Realm Space...
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2015 : 03:11:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
My biggest problem with the concept, which I actually like, is the problem about interplannar magic. If a wizard cant cast spells in a deadmagic zone i.e. a place where the weave is not pressent, then how can he cast magic places where the weave is not present? As in other planes or crystal pheres...
This is a great point Nicolai, and you're right magic works on other planes & crystal spheres. Which suggests that if Mystryl hadn't constructed the Weave in the first place, magic may still have worked on Toril without it... But, without the Weave, Mystryl wouldn't be able to dictate the who is allowed to use Magic... Which of course leads to the perpetual divine power struggle over who gets to make the Magic Decisions. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2015 : 06:49:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
My biggest problem with the concept, which I actually like, is the problem about interplannar magic. If a wizard cant cast spells in a deadmagic zone i.e. a place where the weave is not pressent, then how can he cast magic places where the weave is not present? As in other planes or crystal pheres...
This is a great point Nicolai, and you're right magic works on other planes & crystal spheres. Which suggests that if Mystryl hadn't constructed the Weave in the first place, magic may still have worked on Toril without it... But, without the Weave, Mystryl wouldn't be able to dictate the who is allowed to use Magic... Which of course leads to the perpetual divine power struggle over who gets to make the Magic Decisions.
That is the problem right there. Why does she need to control who can use it or not? Because she made the weave this almost physical thing, she made it easier for someone to attempt control over it.
Basically she causes the problems. It's kind of like leaving your front door unlocked and wondering why you are being robbed all the time. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2015 : 15:03:39
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| Well, yeah... I guess what I'm saying is that Mystryl had an idea brought on by pride and hubris, and that's consistent with the way gods act in real-world myths as well. Hence, gods making decisions that are short-sighted, illogical, arbitrary, inconsistent, flawed, contradictory, etc. is pretty much what I expect out of them. |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2015 : 15:15:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
My biggest problem with the concept, which I actually like, is the problem about interplannar magic. If a wizard cant cast spells in a deadmagic zone i.e. a place where the weave is not pressent, then how can he cast magic places where the weave is not present? As in other planes or crystal pheres...
This is a great point Nicolai, and you're right magic works on other planes & crystal spheres. Which suggests that if Mystryl hadn't constructed the Weave in the first place, magic may still have worked on Toril without it... But, without the Weave, Mystryl wouldn't be able to dictate the who is allowed to use Magic... Which of course leads to the perpetual divine power struggle over who gets to make the Magic Decisions.
IIRC, in Magic of Faerun it is said that the Weave is a construct that prevents the raw magical energies from ''overloading'' the world and quickly dissipate in an explosive burst. It is what allows magic to be used on Toril. Even Post-Spellplague, the Weave still existed: it was severely damaged, but still there (Ed confirmed this in Elminster Enraged and Spellstorm. In fact, IIRC, the whole Spellplague was a necessary part of the cycle of the Weave. Mystra had to reboot it, after it was worn by all the reckless use of magic of the past, and she had to ''reboot'' herself with it), and it was what prevented magic from being utterly uncontrollable during that period of time.
My guess is that on the Outer Planes, magic is fueled by the very substance of the planes. The nature of those places is completely different from the Prime, they basically are faith and ideas made substance, and ideas, beliefs and so on hold power there. Limbo is the epithome of that, anyone with a strong enough willpower is a mage there. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Sep 2015 15:23:56 |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2015 : 16:00:26
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| Thanks for clarifying the practical details Irennan... So, if we hit the rewind button and go back to prior to the formation of the Weave, do you think it is conceivable that Toril would essentially function like Limbo? |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2015 : 16:13:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolai Withander
My biggest problem with the concept, which I actually like, is the problem about interplannar magic. If a wizard cant cast spells in a deadmagic zone i.e. a place where the weave is not pressent, then how can he cast magic places where the weave is not present? As in other planes or crystal pheres...
This is a great point Nicolai, and you're right magic works on other planes & crystal spheres. Which suggests that if Mystryl hadn't constructed the Weave in the first place, magic may still have worked on Toril without it... But, without the Weave, Mystryl wouldn't be able to dictate the who is allowed to use Magic... Which of course leads to the perpetual divine power struggle over who gets to make the Magic Decisions.
IIRC, in Magic of Faerun it is said that the Weave is a construct that prevents the raw magical energies from ''overloading'' the world and quickly dissipate in an explosive burst. It is what allows magic to be used on Toril. Even Post-Spellplague, the Weave still existed: it was severely damaged, but still there (Ed confirmed this in Elminster Enraged and Spellstorm. In fact, IIRC, the whole Spellplague was a necessary part of the cycle of the Weave. Mystra had to reboot it, after it was worn by all the reckless use of magic of the past, and she had to ''reboot'' herself with it), and it was what prevented magic from being utterly uncontrollable during that period of time.
My guess is that on the Outer Planes, magic is fueled by the very substance of the planes. The nature of those places is completely different from the Prime, they basically are faith and ideas made substance, and ideas, beliefs and so on hold power there. Limbo is the epithome of that, anyone with a strong enough willpower is a mage there.
My take: they need to stop killing Mystra off for shock value, then giving half baked excuses as to why the most powerful goddess can't manage to stay alive.
If the Weave needs to be rebooted after excessive, reckless use of magic, why didn't a Spellplague occur after the Crown Wars? The BS the elves pulled with the Drow curse and the Killing Storm was extremely reckless, to say nothing else of what happened in that time. The explanation causes one to wonder why there haven't been more recorded Spellplagues. |
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Should the "Weave" have been kept vague?
