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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Sep 2015 : 21:59:13
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| Markustay, I would also recommend Kemp's work in Star Wars. I would also recommend Salvatore's trilogy called "The Chronicles of Ynis Aielle". It's a fantasy setting that is magic heavy, like FR, but the way he writes mages is so different in those books. I really enjoyed them, but would not have guessed from the style that it was Salvatore. I've heard his Demonwars books are good too, but I can't vouch for those, because I haven't read them. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2015 : 22:04:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Actually, my point is that both my friend and people complaining here about RAS' choice of names are being unreasonable and petty.
I've seen these arguments pop several times already, and it always sounds more like people resent RAS's success so they'll pick on any silly thing. RAS has published over 30 books in the Realms, he's one of the setting's most profilic authors so the argument that the names he uses are "not realmsian" is borderline silly.
And despite my constant criticism with him (starting around his 4th FR novel or so), I have been the #1 supporter/endorser of the D&D movie to be about Drizzt.
What we want and what the Realms needs are two different animals. I don't have to like something to know its the right choice.
I am about to give the single greatest compliment I have every given any author - I have read EVERY RAS novel set in the Realms (or plan to, for a couple of newer ones), which I cannot say for any other FR author - including ED - because despite all his writing flaws, I enjoy his novels. He writes so goddamn well that I enjoy reading about Drizzt, even though I do NOT like Drizzt himself. It doesn't really get much better then that.
Is it perfect? No... far from it. But I enjoy it, and enjoyment is why I read.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Sep 2015 22:05:16 |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2015 : 22:34:50
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Yeesh. 
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 05 Sep 2015 22:35:31 |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2015 : 22:56:03
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Now that I've had some time to pry my palm off of my face, I wanted to clarify something.
When I read something, I do so critically. It's just how I approach any kind of literature. I'm torn on how I feel about the Drizzt books. There are certainly aspects that I like, but there are other aspects that irritate me. I don't think that feeling this way is unreasonable, and if anything, I'd feel wary of authors who want their readers to embrace their writing through and through. I believe that people with that sort of mindset should consider leading a cult of zealots rather than be a creator of literature.
I'm passionate about the Forgotten Realms. That includes the content of Bob's books. If someone's going to judge me because I'm not going to blindly embrace something that's presented to me, because I'll always criticize some elements while praising others, then I really don't think the problem is with me. As thinking and reasoning individuals, I feel that it's only natural for us to have different reactions to different elements of anything. To not, to me, seems unhealthy, willfully ignorant and borderline obsessive. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 01:52:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
"I like this quality in Ed's writing, I wish other authors did it also."
My view exactly.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 12:13:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
Ah, okay. So RAS is above criticism. And if people do dare to send some his way, they get attacked for being "unreasonable" and "petty" and even silly and jealous.
Super glad you could clear that up.
Lol, and on the other side of the spectrum, your criticisms are beyond reproach apparently.
I do have criticisms concerning RAS work, mainly that I think he keeps recycling plot points, but the names that he uses? And implying that they're not "realmsian"? Yeah, that's a silly complaint.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
It makes absolutely no sense that they would have a name in an Earth language.
Really? Why? In a setting that uses versions of gods from real world mythology and cultures inspired by real world settings why is it such a big no-no for authors to use names with roots from languages other than English? Or even using common English names like Jack?
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
To not, to me, seems unhealthy, willfully ignorant and borderline obsessive.
To each his own I guess. To me, nitpicking names like my friend did is what I'd call borderline obsessive. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 06 Sep 2015 12:28:00 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3252 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 13:12:42
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Okay, now I'm sorry about my earlier post.
1) I don't mind if people are critical when they read. But, these books have already passed through countless editors/proofreaders/etc. and both the company paying RAS aren't asking him to change and the people buying him still keep him on the NYT Bestsellers list. I have problems reading Asimov and Bradbury. I love their stories, I know their stories are important to Sci-Fi, but I don't like the language they use to tell them. Should those books be considered "less" because I don't like the old (white) 1950's vernacular they use to tell their stories?
2) If the problem is so great that it takes you out of the story, and you're not enjoying the story, then don't buy the book. I lost interest in Nicholas Cage movies after seeing Drive Angry. I can now say for sure that, even if he does a completely astounding act in an awesome movie, I don't think I'll go see it because he's left such a bad taste in my mouth. So, I may lose out on a terrific movie at some point, but it's my choice. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 16:39:16
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Tanthalas, why are you so defensive on behalf of RAS? No one said that the reason that RAS' is good/bad/silly/whatever adjective you want because of the diction that he uses. The topic of this post is whether anyone else feels that his choice of words feel off. If you don't agree, that's fine, but what are you seeking to gain by telling everyone else that don't agree with you that their opinions are invalid and that their viewpoints are silly?
I used to be friends with someone until I found out that she was attacking people because she felt that their perspective that women should be represented as well as men are in D&D is silly. What you're doing in this thread is no different from that. You're dismissing everyone else's perspectives while expecting everyone to accept yours. I hope you realize how that doesn't work.
The original poster simply wanted to reach out and see if anyone else felt the same way that he does. You've taken this as a chance to attack everyone else who do not agree with you. You might say something like, "To each his own", but in reality that's a crock of dung, because you're actively picking on people who dare to express an opinion that's different from yours. |
Edited by - sno4wy on 06 Sep 2015 16:42:57 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2015 : 18:16:17
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I didn't say I didn't like RW names being used (so long as their slightly modified to look more 'Realmsy') - I've done it myself, in my one-and-only CKC article (which I would love to go back and fix someday, in hindsight).
What I meant was that he creates incredibly silly names using RW words, like 'Bouldershoulder'. He wants 'Bouldershoulder' thats fine - just give it to us in DWARVISH. Why would a pair of FR dwarves be walking around the Realms with a name in modern English?
I reiterate: Names do NOT get translated. I know at least two women named 'Blanca', but I don't call them 'white'. That would be assinine. The rest of the writing can be in RW modern English (or whatever), because WE are reading it, but not the names. I have always felt strongly that it breaks the fourth wall.
There are always exceptions, as well. As for 'modern wordage', even Ed winced at 'Harper Troopers' (IIRC). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 06 Sep 2015 18:16:37 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 06:29:01
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As far as the criticism about "batteries" and what-not, I seem to remember a huge illustration of all sorts of medieval bladed weapons in a sourcebook that used all sorts of RW names. Easily half of those names were unfamiliar to me, but the context of the explanations showed me that every single one of them was a RW historical weapon, with a matching RW historical name.
And that shocked me. The notion that a sourcebook writer would so obviously try to insert such blatantly RW, historical, and obscure details (and words) into make-believe fantasy stories and games seemed like a stretch.
But all the mentions of Greek gods and Greek classical monsters and other familiar elements from all sorts of other RW circles reminded me that that particular weapon chart was hardly the sole example of this. D&D, and FR by extension, is a hodgepodge of stuff being borrowed from the RW, seasoned with made-up stuff here and there. And guess what. So was Tolkien's Middle-Earth.
If you get jarred out of your reading enjoyment by silly names like "Fumblefutz McStompalot", then I'm totally with you. (No, Bob, that was not a suggestion for your next novel.)
And if you are irritated by Drizzt coming off as a weird paladin even though he's still agnostic, or by his melodramatic prose in journal entries, then fine. To each their own.
But I will never understand people taking exception to RAS's gratuitous use of a hodgepodge of names or story elements, when D&D and FR (and TLOTR, for that matter) are all just literary stews in their own rights.
That being said, MT, once Ed shared with us here at the Keep that Mithral Hall would probably actually be known by its Dwarven name of "Himral Uldoun", in my mind I have always just substituted that every time Bob has written "Mithral Hall". So I'm with you there.
This is much like Drizzt telling us that the ancient family name of House Do'Urden was "D'aermon N'a'shezbaernon". Ancient names mean something to Realmsians. Words matter to them, and not just to us.
So Bob's editors really should insist on bringing some more of a signature Realms feel into his stories from time to time, at least with the word choice. It would help a little. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36966 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 17:03:54
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
As far as the criticism about "batteries" and what-not, I seem to remember a huge illustration of all sorts of medieval bladed weapons in a sourcebook that used all sorts of RW names. Easily half of those names were unfamiliar to me, but the context of the explanations showed me that every single one of them was a RW historical weapon, with a matching RW historical name.
The original, 1E Unearthed Arcana, as I recall, with its list of polearms.
I think that the complaints about some names not being Realmsian is a valid one. Any shared universe has its naming structures, and deviating from that draws attention to itself, often to the detriment of the story. I'd have the same complaint about a Jedi named Bob Smith. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2015 : 18:46:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Also, remember this:
He's writing for a modern audience.
"Modern audience" does not equal "autistic redditors with dictionary size 1/10 of what anyone their age used to have 20 years ago and OMGALLCAPS". I know... surprising.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've never had problems with the modern lingo, because I agree with what Ashe Ravenheart said above (and so many folks have trouble wrapping their minds around).
Let's be fair. It's always hard to wrap mind around a clown car - too many bits stick out.
quote:
The stories are being told to US; would you prefer RAS write in Thorass?
Which word you have trouble typing using Latin alphabet?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The original, 1E Unearthed Arcana, as I recall, with its list of polearms.
...which was the running gag in itself. Yup.
In 3e, this place probably takes the list of critters descended from dragons.
quote:
Any shared universe has its naming structures, and deviating from that draws attention to itself, often to the detriment of the story.
Yup. And sometimes the authors are simply daft or lazy (screaming "Fire!" to ballista crews, archers, and underwater crossbowmen).
Or just fail to give a bat guano (the infamous crystal yo-yo).
All is good in its season and place. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 07 Sep 2015 18:50:48 |
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Not really sure if it's just me.
