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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 13:29:04
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When 3ed ended the spellplague killed off quite a few deities (Mystra, The drow pantheon) Helm....., demoted a few deities (mainly the elemental deities) and added a few deities (Asmodeous)
Then the Sundering brought some of them back
Anyone able to confirm whose come back and whose still dead?
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 13:35:37
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Mystra, Helm, Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, Mask, Lathander, Bhaal have been explicitly confirmed to be alive after/during the Sundering. Nobanion has been healed from that Spellplague insanity.
Azuth appears to be alive in Erin Evan's latest novel and Tyr is back as well (Ed mentioned it in his scroll, IIRC).
There are quite a lot of formely dead gods mentioned in the 5e PHB (Myrkul, Leira for example), so they should be alive as well, but that hasn't explicitly been confirmed yet. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 09 Aug 2015 14:43:13 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 13:40:13
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| I hope they bring back Moander. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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eeorey
Seeker
Bulgaria
96 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 13:43:46
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What I'm wondering is are the LONG dead gods coming back? Like the original Re (That also depends of course on Mulhorand coming back or not), the Untheri gods that got killed in the orcgate wars (same sitiation as Re), Auppenser (please, please, please be back, also we don't know what happened to him while Mystra was out of the picture).
I mean is there a set limit of time after which we won't see a deity come back or do all of them get a respawn? |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 14:27:16
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| I actually wish they would bring back Mystryl as a Neutral Goddess. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 14:27:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I hope they bring back Moander.
His death had nothing to do with the Spellplague; he died during the 2E era. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 14:32:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I hope they bring back Moander.
His death had nothing to do with the Spellplague; he died during the 2E era.
Oh I know. I just liked the god and figured why not bring him back when they are bringing back so many others. His body still floats around in the astral plain as well as his body on Moander's Hill. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 14:33:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Mystra, Helm, Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, Mask, Lathander, Bhaal have been explicitly confirmed to be alive after/during the Sundering. Nobanion has been healed from that Spellplague insanity.
Azuth appears to be alive in Erin Evan's latest novel.
There are quite a lot of formely dead gods mentioned in the 5e PHB (Myrkul, Leira for example), so they should be alive as well, but that hasn't explicitly been confirmed yet.
You know I could kind of see Mykrul trying to take over Faerun side of the Eminence of Araunt after Abeir is seperated from Toril again |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 15:00:57
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Im currently rolling through the old 2ed F&A, P&P and DhD and the 3ed books to see if theres any material for Monk and Paladin orders for deities that couldnt have them due to the now obsolete Monk/Paladin Alignment restrictions.
Think Ill treat 2ed Crusaders as 5ed Paladins |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 15:57:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im currently rolling through the old 2ed F&A, P&P and DhD and the 3ed books to see if theres any material for Monk and Paladin orders for deities that couldnt have them due to the now obsolete Monk/Paladin Alignment restrictions.
Think Ill treat 2ed Crusaders as 5ed Paladins
That's kinda what I'm doing. I'm not treating the title of Paladin as a class, but rather an ideal aspired to by people who take the Paladin class. To achieve Paladinhood, you must not only uphold your oath according to the 5e mechanics, but you must also hold yourself to a LG alignment that embodies your oath, your god, and the laws of the land. It's a very difficult, if not impossible goal to achieve. This works for me, as in my opinion, a true Paladin isn't a common thing. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2015 : 16:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
Im currently rolling through the old 2ed F&A, P&P and DhD and the 3ed books to see if theres any material for Monk and Paladin orders for deities that couldnt have them due to the now obsolete Monk/Paladin Alignment restrictions.
Think Ill treat 2ed Crusaders as 5ed Paladins
That's kinda what I'm doing. I'm not treating the title of Paladin as a class, but rather an ideal aspired to by people who take the Paladin class. To achieve Paladinhood, you must not only uphold your oath according to the 5e mechanics, but you must also hold yourself to a LG alignment that embodies your oath, your god, and the laws of the land. It's a very difficult, if not impossible goal to achieve. This works for me, as in my opinion, a true Paladin isn't a common thing.
I like that approach to paladins a lot. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2015 : 16:55:27
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There is no such thing as a 'dead god'. There are gods who enter into a stasis-like coma - even for aeons and aeons - but they can be revived, so long as someone, somewhere starts to worship them again. Think of them as engines that have run out of fuel. An engine doesn't just disappear - it can sit there practically forever (in a protected vacuum, lol) and still work as soon as it gets some 'gas'.
Its not so different for mortals, except that a mortal 'soul' can eventually deteriorate into nothingness. However, so long as someone is still thinking about that dead person (which is a form of worship), that soul will still receive energy and be able to stay viable. The whole reason why souls 'fade' is because no-one remembers them anymore.
Just my philosophical thoughts on the matter. Its nice when I can take some of my RW beliefs and use them as a 'fix' for quirky rules/canon. I don't really worry about which deities are dead and which are alive that way - even if one was in the coma-state, some other deity could be using it as an alias, or just siphoning-off the energy going toward it.
As for the OP, I think we are going to see the original (1e) pantheon, with all new adds still in place (including guys like Asmodeus and Zehir). Thats just me drawing conclusions, nothing 'canon'. They can accomplish this by simply getting rid of that post-ToT ruling by Ao (one god per portfolio). That never really made much sense anyway (Not in FR, least-ways). It may get a little weird with the 4e lore that 'some gods were really other gods' thing, but we can just chalk that up to 'mortal ignorance' (both IG, and RW).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2015 : 16:59:18
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| Yeah, but a god can die for practical purposes. If a god is dead, then it means that WotC is most likely not going to produce any lore or story about them, that their influence won't be felt on the ''present setting''. That's why people care about gods not being, as you say, in a comatose state. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11734 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2015 : 01:50:22
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| I know Mystra's back, but I'd really like to see her make alliances with some deities who server other gods in order to protect herself. For instance, offering the red knight to be a goddess of spell strategy... offering Deneir a role as god of symbol magic... offering Milil a role as god of song magic... Lurue as a goddess of protection & animal magic.... etc... (along with Azuth, Savras, Velsharoon, Leira, Auppenser in their traditional roles) and thereby making these deities have somewhat more control over these types of magic (how doesn't have to be spelled out). It would serve to split the pantheon a bit where all these lesser deities now serve multiple masters (like Velsharoon was doing with Mystra and Talos). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2015 : 03:20:10
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| Sword Coast Adventurers Guide will have a full list of Gods, including those who have returned from the dead! This is according to Dragon+ . |
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Widu
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 21:19:32
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Well, I've not paid much attention to the Realms the past 8 years or so, but I've been catching up lately. Don't particularly want Moander back, but I suppose I can live withit if he/it leaves Finder alone (whom I actually really like, despite or maybe because he doesn't fit the standard ascended mortal mold 
Anyway, I can see how worshipers of goodly dead gods keep hanging on to their deity to provide a base of followers and eventually allow the dead god to return... but why would followers of Moander or Bhaal do the same? Not out of compassion, surely, and a dead power doesn't grant spells plus they might be considered false or faithless after death.
So why would they make an effort? :/ |
~ It is better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness. ~ |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 21:27:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Widu
Well, I've not paid much attention to the Realms the past 8 years or so, but I've been catching up lately. Don't particularly want Moander back, but I suppose I can live withit if he/it leaves Finder alone (whom I actually really like, despite or maybe because he doesn't fit the standard ascended mortal mold
Anyway, I can see how worshipers of goodly dead gods keep hanging on to their deity to provide a base of followers and eventually allow the dead god to return... but why would followers of Moander or Bhaal do the same? Not out of compassion, surely, and a dead power doesn't grant spells plus they might be considered false or faithless after death.
So why would they make an effort? :/
People worship way more than a single deity in the Realms. Individuals may follow a deity more closely than they do for others, but followers of a single god(dess) are very rare. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Sep 2015 21:29:06 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2015 : 23:27:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Widu
Well, I've not paid much attention to the Realms the past 8 years or so, but I've been catching up lately. Don't particularly want Moander back, but I suppose I can live withit if he/it leaves Finder alone (whom I actually really like, despite or maybe because he doesn't fit the standard ascended mortal mold
Anyway, I can see how worshipers of goodly dead gods keep hanging on to their deity to provide a base of followers and eventually allow the dead god to return... but why would followers of Moander or Bhaal do the same? Not out of compassion, surely, and a dead power doesn't grant spells plus they might be considered false or faithless after death.
So why would they make an effort? :/
Their prayers may still be answered by another power... Lolth, for example, has been granting prayers in Moander's name. |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 02:33:14
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| I just hope they leave Amaunator alive and well. I honestly can't stand Lathander and replaced him back during my 3.5E campaign. I kicked him down to the status of a solar, I believe. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36784 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 05:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
I just hope they leave Amaunator alive and well. I honestly can't stand Lathander and replaced him back during my 3.5E campaign. I kicked him down to the status of a solar, I believe.
...And I go the other way, here. I've never liked Amaunator, but Lathander is one of my faves. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 13:07:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
I just hope they leave Amaunator alive and well. I honestly can't stand Lathander and replaced him back during my 3.5E campaign. I kicked him down to the status of a solar, I believe.
They already stated in The Reaver that Amaunator is just a name Lathander takes when he thinks the world needs more order and stabiity.
I like to imagine him to appear like lathander with a ridiclous fake moustache |
Edited by - Mirtek on 09 Sep 2015 13:26:51 |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 18:09:06
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The whole Lathandar = Amaunator thing was really disappointing IMO.
I very much like Amaunator, mostly from what I know of the deity in the cRPG Baldur's Gate series. Lathander always seemed okay, if a bit boring. Smashing them together just never seemed to fit, and didn't seem like an organic change pushed by the needs of mortal worship.
Then again, I never much liked the Dawn-Highsun-Dusk tripartite deity heresy anyway. It seemed forced, trying to "explain" something that didn't really need explaining, changing the backstory of multiple deities for no reason other than it seemed cool to certain people on the design team. It didn't really solve any problems or enrich the setting IMO.
Thing is, Amaunator HAD rituals (per the cRPG) for dawn, highsun, and dusk anyway. Because those rituals exist, it doesn't really make sense that he is only the High Sun aspect of a tripartite deity.
IMO it was just a kludge that never really fit, but was forced.
I'd prefer for Lathander and Amaunator to be shown as separate, individual entities in 5E. I know that won't happen, but for my own personal game they'll never be the same deity.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 09 Sep 2015 18:13:49 |
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Widu
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 19:05:25
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I suppose worship is enough then, not necessarily having the dead power for a patron.
As far as I know, the whole aspect thing was presented as 'scholars (or clerics) have found out....' so there's a backdoor that can get you Lathander As well as Amaunator, I'd say.
Anyway, if they are both selectable from the phb list, shouln't current FR actively offer both gods as an option? It's what I always liked about the realms anyway - the many gods.
And yeah, I like Finder, both as one of the few interesting FR novel heroes and as a demigod that is nicely breaking the 'ascended mortal' mold, so I really don't want the silly garbage heap killing him back... but I have no trouble seeing them co-exist. Though probably not liking each other overmuch |
~ It is better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness. ~ |
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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe
300 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 20:11:11
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It's never really bothered me when Deities are combined, split, killed, returned, etc. Primarily because of Wooly's point regarding deities answering prayers in the names of other deities, since that implies that literally all deities claims regarding their aspects or identities are suspect... And the constant changes between editions, contradictions and heresy concepts that crop up seem reflective of how earth's religions & myths are constantly changed, combined, rewritten, reinterpreted, etc...
...as far as my own heretical speculations on Lathander & Finder go...
I think it's possible that Lathander is only partly correct about his claim, and that he is actually only a portion of Amaunator (kinda like Tymora & Beshaba being the result of Tyche). And I think it would be interesting if Finder became cursed as a result of absorbing Moander, similar to the how King Midas turned everything he touched into gold... Except of course, Finder would have "Moander's Touch" instead of the "Midas Touch". |
To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss |
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Widu
Acolyte
3 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 20:49:15
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Yeah, I understand the idea, it's just that apart from me rather liking Finder, and wanting him not to end up too badly cause I liked the books too... the whole thing of not so dead gods returning through their would be successors is kind of getting meh. I'd hoped for something more epic for Bhaal's return too, something tied to this Sundering maybe - worlds separating, heavens opening, rains of blood and thunder and guess who's back  |
~ It is better to light a flamethrower than curse the darkness. ~ |
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 20:56:32
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It's a little ridiculous that for the Sundering, something SO IMPORTANT and momentous, that 99% of Realms citizens had no idea it was happening.
If you're living in some backwater town, and some sage was saying "The WORLDS moved apart and..." you'd probably think they were nuts.
And the reality is, if you read all the books and material about it, as a reader/gamer you still have no idea when it happened, or even what happened beyond a few scattered details.
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"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 21:28:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Widu
I'd hoped for something more epic for Bhaal's return too, something tied to this Sundering maybe - worlds separating, heavens opening, rains of blood and thunder and guess who's back
That sounds delicious. The Realms needs more Bhaal. Bane too. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe
Norway
410 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 21:40:34
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I still feel like I don't know anything about this Sundering.
Btw do we know if Beshaba is around? |
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 22:49:56
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I can't believe they just made Amaunator and Lathander one and the same, operating under an alias. We seemingly have the Garth Brooks/Chris Gaines in him. That makes me tired, somehow.
I liked the 2E book Faiths and Pantheons that mentioned his body floating around in the Astral Plane. I also was one that enjoyed the Baldur's Gate game where you dealt with him and learned about him. I used all of that, along with an artifact sword that I made, to enact his return and knock Lathander down in status. |
Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 23:21:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart
I can't believe they just made Amaunator and Lathander one and the same, operating under an alias. We seemingly have the Garth Brooks/Chris Gaines in him. That makes me tired, somehow.
I liked the 2E book Faiths and Pantheons that mentioned his body floating around in the Astral Plane. I also was one that enjoyed the Baldur's Gate game where you dealt with him and learned about him. I used all of that, along with an artifact sword that I made, to enact his return and knock Lathander down in status.
I like the 2e version of Amaunator as a dead god, but I also liked the Amaunator-into-Lathander Heresy from 3e. (Granted, to me, that's as far as it ever went. I preferred Lathander.) It gives options to gaming groups if they want to put in just a little bit of work to make their version of the Realms unique. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2015 : 23:21:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood
I still feel like I don't know anything about this Sundering.
Btw do we know if Beshaba is around?
Shes listed in the players handbook on page 294 |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Not so dead gods........
