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pukunui
Seeker
64 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 10:16:58
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I'm running Hoard of the Dragon Queen, and my group just finished Episode 3, so I'm looking into the people and places encountered in Episode 4.
First up is Elturel. The adventure doesn't say a lot about it, other than that it's a "large, orderly city". And that it has a second sun that shines 24 hours a day and is painful to undead.
We then meet Ontharr Frume, a "good natured paladin of Torm" who "loves jokes and pranks, a stiff drink, and a friendly scuffle."
Looking back at the 4e FRCG, it paints a very different picture of this place. It comes across as more of a police state, with its proudly intolerant and righteous theocracy that slaps hefty fines on such things as profanity and impiety.
That doesn't sound like a place where a man like Ontharr Frume would be welcome, paladin of Torm or no.
I also get the impression that establishments like 'A Pair of Black Antlers' (featured in HotDQ) and 'Phontyr's Unicorn' would've gotten themselves shut down for being too bawdy.
Should I just ignore what it says in the 4e book and imagine Elturel (and by extension Elturgard) as less of a police state and more of a typical orderly but imperfect nation?
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 11:08:47
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Your best source for Elturel is ironicly enough the 25 year old Forgotten realms adventures book which has a full write up of the city (admitedly its set just after the time of troubles so some what out of date)
At that time Elturel was ruled by a Paladin of Helm who seemed to be more tolerent than most Paladins. In 4rf and now 5ed the city is ruled by Paladins of torm (Presumeably the Helms shieldhall temple switched to Torm after Helm died during the spellplague)
Both the Black Antlers and Phontyrs Unicorn exist at this time.
The town watch was called the Hellriders
There is no thieves guild in the city
There was a temple to Helm and Chauntea and shrines to Ilamter, Tempus,Tymora and Waukeen in the city.
Theres also a Ruined fort outside the city called the Fort of the Morninglord where the entire Paladin garrision disappeared
Since then of course Helm has died and city has become the capitol of a nation.
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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pukunui
Seeker
64 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 11:14:57
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Yeah, I had a look through my copy of FR Adventures. At least it has a map of the city. I think maybe I'll just ignore the harsher aspects of what's in the 4e books. Otherwise it'll just be too much of a buzzkill.
On a side note, how does one pronounce "Chionthar"? |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 11:44:31
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quote:
Originally posted by pukunui
Yeah, I had a look through my copy of FR Adventures. At least it has a map of the city. I think maybe I'll just ignore the harsher aspects of what's in the 4e books. Otherwise it'll just be too much of a buzzkill.
On a side note, how does one pronounce "Chionthar"?
Or just use the 4ed stuff as history ie 4th ed is written 40 or so years before Hoard of Dragon queen
Id probably play the cities of Elturgard as having abit of a siege mentality with the exception Baldurs gate most of there neighbours dont play well with Paladins.
Ie Warlocks keep (Who wants to live next door to a Netherese Lich with an undead army)
Wood of Sharp teeth (has an army of werewolves)
Forest of Wyrms (Green dragons, Yuan ti and slavers)
Darkhold is also near by and imagine if any of your characters have there Zhentarium affiliation they probably will get the cold shoulder from the locals AT BEST |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 14:02:34
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quote:
Originally posted by pukunui
Yeah, I had a look through my copy of FR Adventures. At least it has a map of the city. I think maybe I'll just ignore the harsher aspects of what's in the 4e books. Otherwise it'll just be too much of a buzzkill.
On a side note, how does one pronounce "Chionthar"?
As Dargoth has already noted, I'd just say that the city had undergone a 'harsh period' around the time of the Spellplague, and has mellowed out since (so consider the 4e stuff 'history').
I pronounce it Chee-on-thar, but I don't know if that is correct. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 14:28:52
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I pronounce it that way as well.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 14:36:21
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quote:
Originally posted by pukunui
Yeah, I had a look through my copy of FR Adventures. At least it has a map of the city. I think maybe I'll just ignore the harsher aspects of what's in the 4e books. Otherwise it'll just be too much of a buzzkill.
On a side note, how does one pronounce "Chionthar"?
I could have sworn there was a guide to its pronunciation in the OGB, but I couldn't find it. I've always pronounced it with a hard CH and a long I, so it would be ki-ON-thar. Although I can't be certain, I always the stress was on the second syllable. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 18:30:14
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ahh pronuciation
its always been Choin (as in join) thar (as in a pirate 'arrr') in this neck of the woods
(even though the I is before the O - its just how it was originally pronounced all those years ago when the ongoing campaign was first played in the sandbox of the OGBS and so it has stuck  )
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
Edited by - crazedventurers on 02 Aug 2015 18:38:14 |
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Portuguese D. Ace
Seeker
Italy
82 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 19:47:50
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sorry to interrupt, but what is OGB?
Thank you! |
Please, bring back the Realms. I'm really fed up with the Sword Coast.
===== Since English is not my first language, I pre-emptively apologize for any (grammar) mistake that has been made in my post. In order to help me improve my English, please, point out those mistakes (If you could do it politely, it would be even better!). Thanks! ===== |
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pukunui
Seeker
64 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 20:29:41
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I like the idea that Elturgard has mellowed out. I'll go with that. Thanks.
As for Chionthar, I had a flip through my OGB last night but couldn't find a pronunciation for it either. I have been pronouncing it "CHEE-on-thar", but "CHY-on-thar" sounds pretty nice too.
quote:
Originally posted by Portuguese D. Ace
sorry to interrupt, but what is OGB?
Thank you!
"Old Gray Box" - the original Forgotten Realms campaign setting box. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 20:35:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
I could have sworn there was a guide to its pronunciation in the OGB, but I couldn't find it. I've always pronounced it with a hard CH and a long I, so it would be ki-ON-thar. Although I can't be certain, I always the stress was on the second syllable.
I also stress the second syllable (I should have put that in capitals in my above pronunciation). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2015 : 21:38:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
I could have sworn there was a guide to its pronunciation in the OGB, but I couldn't find it. I've always pronounced it with a hard CH and a long I, so it would be ki-ON-thar. Although I can't be certain, I always the stress was on the second syllable.
I also stress the second syllable (I should have put that in capitals in my above pronunciation).
That was the great thing about that Old Gray Box. What Greenwood and Grubb put together was the backbone of modern fantasy world building. If it could have come up for a Hugo award, it should have received it.
quote:
Originally posted by pukunui
Should I just ignore what it says in the 4e book and imagine Elturel (and by extension Elturgard) as less of a police state and more of a typical orderly but imperfect nation?
To get the post back on topic, Dargoth is correct; the older material is the better material, if you have access to it, or can find it. The Western Heartlands worked best with a bunch of competing city-states. How do you reconcile that with 4th and 5th edition lore? I'd play down the nation aspect, make Elturgard a confederation at best, independent allies at worst. It certainly makes it more dynamic going that route. |
Edited by - Rymac on 02 Aug 2015 22:05:33 |
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pukunui
Seeker
64 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2015 : 00:16:52
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quote:
I'd play down the nation aspect, make Elturgard a confederation at best, independent allies at worst. It certainly makes it more dynamic going that route.
Yeah, that sounds pretty good. Even if the Harpers technically abandoned Twilight Hall some time ago, I find it difficult to accept that the Berduskans would've willingly become part of Elturgard. Scornubel, on the other hand, appears not to have had much choice. |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2015 : 00:51:02
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quote:
Originally posted by pukunui
quote:
I'd play down the nation aspect, make Elturgard a confederation at best, independent allies at worst. It certainly makes it more dynamic going that route.
Yeah, that sounds pretty good. Even if the Harpers technically abandoned Twilight Hall some time ago, I find it difficult to accept that the Berduskans would've willingly become part of Elturgard. Scornubel, on the other hand, appears not to have had much choice.
An interesting idea might be to keep the idea of Paladin theocracy but replace their patron diety with Waukeen
5ed Paladins can be of any alignment now after all |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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pukunui
Seeker
64 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2015 : 00:59:32
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quote:
An interesting idea might be to keep the idea of Paladin theocracy but replace their patron diety with Waukeen
5ed Paladins can be of any alignment now after all
True.
Maybe what I'll do is have it be a state run by paladins, not all of whom are devoted to Torm. There might be a mix, including some paladins of Waukeen. This could be a recent thing, due to the changes wrought by the Sundering. So the strictness of the Tormites' rule is being relaxed by that of Waukeen's followers. Maybe there are some others in there as well. Plus the Order of the Gauntlet.
EDIT: Does anyone know if there's been any art (either official or fanmade) depicting Elturel and/or a land with a second, magical sun hanging over it? |
Edited by - pukunui on 03 Aug 2015 01:08:13 |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2015 : 01:27:19
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quote:
Originally posted by pukunui
quote:
An interesting idea might be to keep the idea of Paladin theocracy but replace their patron diety with Waukeen
5ed Paladins can be of any alignment now after all
True.
Maybe what I'll do is have it be a state run by paladins, not all of whom are devoted to Torm. There might be a mix, including some paladins of Waukeen. This could be a recent thing, due to the changes wrought by the Sundering. So the strictness of the Tormites' rule is being relaxed by that of Waukeen's followers. Maybe there are some others in there as well. Plus the Order of the Gauntlet.
EDIT: Does anyone know if there's been any art (either official or fanmade) depicting Elturel and/or a land with a second, magical sun hanging over it?
I believe the 2nd sun thing marked the local temple of Lathander as being followerrs of the Risen Sun Heresy (which ultimate would turn out to be true Amaunator and Lathander are the same deity)
Theres actually an Epic level spell for creating a permeant 2nd sun in Powers of Faerun. although pre Spellplaue the only 2nd sun was in Elversult. Presumable Fort Morninglord was the local Lathanderian presence Elturel.
Couldnt find any pictures of E;versult in powers of faerun so unless there are pics in 4rd you maybe out of luck
Found this on Google
https://drmarkjardine.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/glasgow-two-suns.jpg
its not official FR but its probably as close as your likely to get |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 03 Aug 2015 01:31:07 |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2015 : 16:18:55
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| Elturel was featured in The Paladin's Plague, which was a Living Forgotten Realms adventure that was part of the two seasons that were officially supported by WotC. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
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Elturel
