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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
 Posted - 13 May 2015 : 18:04:49
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I'm playing a Sunite character and I was wondering a bit as to the internal structure of the Church. There's not a lot of information online, the one book I've read that deals with this somewhat is Downshadow.
My character comes from Waterdeep but we're doing the Neverwinter campaign, and I'm trying to find some sort of role for her. While she hasn't been overtly religious, it might make sense for her to try and rise the ranks in the Church or otherwise establish it's presence in Neverwinter so she has a support base.
She's currently a Sacred Harlot/Courtesan and I generally say that she's a "Sister" and she studied under a "Mother".
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2015 : 20:10:07
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| Have you checked the info in the 2E book Faiths & Avatars? It's going to have the most info on this topic. |
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2015 : 20:47:35
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i'll see if i can find it
of course in 4E things are a bit different with Liira and Sharess part of the family(and no longer Selūne). |
Edited by - Roseweave on 13 May 2015 20:48:09 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36844 Posts |
Posted - 13 May 2015 : 21:57:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
i'll see if i can find it
of course in 4E things are a bit different with Liira and Sharess part of the family(and no longer Selūne).
I'd not expect that to impact the internal structure of the church, all that much. Organizations do not change readily. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Justhanthalas
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 01:16:33
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I am playing a Sunite bard/cleric as well.
Basically, I see Sune as a southern goddess, more urban and not quite venerated as much in the northern Sword Coast. In Amn (in the original 1st ed Amn/Tethyr/Calimshan sourcebook) they seemed very strongly situated there. So for in my Neverwinter campaign, I figured any Sunites north of Waterdeep and west of Silverymoon would have to be missionaries or searching for something valuable to the church, like, say a platinum mine to invest in to make jewelry and such for revenue and aesthetic pleasure. Also, there's plenty of influence to be had, but you have to kind of repackage Sune to be appealing to snowbound, fur wearing savages.
Basically, this is what I came up with for one of the church superiors who came to Neverwinter to spread the word of the goddess.
This is, of course, all made up by me, and this is what I sent to my players between adventures.
Hope you enjoy.
Father Estevani Remini looked out into the streets, and it seemed like the deluge would never end. The streets below were clogged with water, debris, and gray silt - dirt mixed with remnants of volcanic ash from Mount Hotenow no doubt. Large lakes of rainwater flooded the streets, especially in some of the lower lying areas near the Sevens Sons Coster. The Tamarand Auction House was reportedly nothing more than an in ground pool at this point, the stout auctioning platform's planks now submerged. Several homes near the city wall had their cellars and ground floors submerged in filthy rainwater.
The estate that now served as temple and home to himself, his wife, and several novices was on higher ground. He thanked the Goddess for that. Still, it was by no means an elegant place - the roof was in need of patching, and several rooms leaked. There was still the stench of mildew, no matter how much incense one burned. The old walls were covered in silks and sheets to mask the disrepair, and in the candle light, one could almost imagine this was a suitable temple to Sune, Lady Firehair, the crimson tressed Goddess of Love and Passion.
Estevani had gotten it for a song. A song he sang to Dagult Neverember of business and trade, of forging alliances between the returning citizens of the city and the surrounding towns. When Mount Hotenow erupted three decades prior, the nobility scattered like rats. Now, when Neverember, the Open Lord of Waterdeep, came to the ash-choked ruins of what was once called the Jewel of the North with his Mintaran mercenaries and his coin, well... the nobles came back, crying about the lands they ran screaming from. One couldn't blame them for leaving - the eruption was catastrophic. But to cringe in the face of terror, then puff up your chest a generation later to take back what you had left behind, that struck the priest as craven.
He looked at the skies glumly. He was a Southerner. He was born in Amn, a nation of commerce and beauty, of warmth and fair skies. His parents were of mixed heritage, in his veins Calim, Shaaran, Tethyrian, and Ffolk blood ran hotly. His skin was brown and rich, his dark hair oiled and curled, elegantly and purposely mussed to give the impression that he had just gotten finished doing things not spoken of plainly in polite society. And as a priest of Sune (a male in the Church was not unknown, but exceedingly rare - priestesses outnumbered priests at least four to one), one could be fairly certain that was absolutely true. It was his goddess' intent to spread love and ignite the passions of those around him. In fact, it was one of his favorite edicts of Her's.
He wore maroon and orange silks, tied around him like the pashas of Calimport, even further south than Amn. Jewelry, tastefully matching his skin, hair, and dress, gleamed dully in the candlelight. His dress here was considered outlandish, he had learned. The Northerners here in the Savage Frontier preferred leather and fur, some preferred steel to caress their skin. Barbaric as that was, Remini knew that it was necessary. Here, orcs boiled out of the mountains, mad with blood lust. Dragons were said to fly unfettered - why, not even seven days past, a group of adventurers brought in the corpse of a emerald hued dragon. And then they had it promptly skinned.
Barbaric, indeed. The North bred tough folk, and they loved in their own manner - not the free and hot blooded manner of the southern lands, but very reserved, very deep, very hard to bring out. They looked at him and his priestesses as though they were some sort of band of mummers or minstrels. The women grew old quickly here, fighting to keep their children warm and fed in these relentlessly harsh winters, lines of care soon scarring their faces. They had no love for romance or passion, because romance couldn't fill your child's belly. The men were rough and worn, scrabbling for a handhold in the many mines, or logging in these fey haunted woods, or trying to coax what they could from the soil before the snows came. Sune, while popular with young lovers, was an effete southerner's Goddess, something for the soft men of the warm lands. Tempus, Chauntea, Tymora, even bitter Auril, goddess of the deadly cold, held sway here in their hearts, making them as hard as the lands they dwelt in.
But still... These Northerners were different, but not so different. Even in this divided and blasted city, the commoners had the same expectations of people in Cormyr, or Amn, or Tethyr. They wanted rulers to take care of them, just like everywhere else. And here in Neverwinter, and lo, a ruler came, but there has been... complications since then.
Lord Dagult Neverember had (has, Remini reminded himself) a credibility problem. It was no mean feat to become the Open Lord of one of the finest cities in Faerun, but also to take on the task of the Lord Protector of Neverwinter? Impressive. But the people of the North wanted stability, continuity, proper succession. The Alagondar line died off, and it seemed there were no heirs to assume the throne. Here strides a southerner (anyone south of the city was a southerner) with his coin and his power, and quite frankly, a dubious claim to heritage to the throne. He claimed he was the descendant of one of Nasher Alagondar's bastards. And since nobody in the North really took time to put quill to ink to paper to laboriously detail who begat whom, nobody could truly naysay him. But he had rebels, plotting to overthrow him, or at the very least, subvert his rule. All because... well... the people, deep in their hearts, felt he didn't belong.
Commoners were a funny thing. They toiled under the nobles who owned the lands surrounding Neverwinter. Their lives were staggeringly short and could be ended at any time by some orc horde, Uthgardt barbarians, some territorial dispute, or some slavering monster rampaging through the lands. They were proud of their individualistic outlook on life, that they were Northerners and proud, hearty folk. Yet, they were no different than the people of Tethyr or Cormyr, who lived under the rule of the Crown. They worked for the nobles, who owned the land in exchange for their sword arms. It was the knights and their armies that helped defend the commoners, under the eyes of the king. But for thirty years, there was no king, and things went along well enough, one could suppose. But let a moneyed man from the South (even a short distance south, like Waterdeep) come in and take charge, and these peasants grumble suspiciously under their breaths, and sharpen their knives. They didn't trust Neverember, because Neverember just struck them as false.
He very well could be, Remini thought, but it didn't matter. His coin and his soldiers brought order to Neverwinter, and he was hell bent on rebuilding it. But still, the sentiment of the people was... problematic. If Neverember wasn't legitimate enough to sit on the throne (should they ever clear out Castle Never to get to the throne, that was), then there was going to be trouble. People wanted to be ruled, but they wanted it according to custom and tradition. A true heir may be a craven and a fool, but by the gods, he would be legitimate. It would bring order to their inherently chaotic lives. At least, they could think, I'm being ruled by the proper bastard.
This point of contention was the handhold Remini needed.
Sune was not well loved by the folk in the North. Sune was flighty and flowery, and flowers did not last the year in the harsh snows. Tempus was strong and fierce, much more suited to the North. Chauntea, they pleaded to her to grow crops in the few warm months they had. Tymora, Goddess of Luck, the people loved her, as they lived on the edge of extinction almost constantly. What could flowery poems and a few wet strokes of passion do for them when the weather turned bitter and the wolves were at your door? It presented the Amnian priest with a problem.
Sune was love, yes, but love takes many forms. Passion, for one, loyalty for another. Passion for your work, your family, your traditions, your people - that was love. Loyalty to your kin, your lord, your king, oh yes, love and fidelity to your vows, certainly within the goddess' purview. Lady Firehair was passion and lusty embraces, true, and the world would be colder without Her, but the Lady also represented that glowing coal of passion in the human breast, that could flare to life at the right time to bring light to the darkness of the North. Yes, Remini argued to the stony faced Northerners, Sune is love. And love is what keeps our lands alive.
When a nobleman marries a young lass from another family, it's more than just two young people coming together for children and someone warm to lay to in the night (although that's not to be discounted) - money, lands, and allegiances change hands. Two lords joined into family by the marriage of their children now are stronger, and in turn their people thrive. Trade thrives. The lands are safer by the alliance. Young men who might have died in the cold mud over some petty territorial pissing match now can grow mature, father children, and work the land to the benefit of everyone. Souls that would never have had the chance to live now could know life and love. Entire towns, cities, nations... innumerable souls can benefit from the bond between man and wife, between the houses of the nobility the commoners consent to protect and rule over them. And to believe in your liege lord, to love him and serve him, just as you love and serve your family, that is something Sune can lend her loving touch to. To the swordsman looking for new ways to perfect his killing dance, Sune can be his muse. To the poet searching for the lyric that can touch the soul, Sune may yet whisper divine inspiration into his ear. To the stout warrior manning the wall against the hordes that lie outside in the cruel darkness, love for his people may brace his shield and guide his hand. Sune not only belonged in the hearts of the Northerners, but She was coming to answer their desperate prayers. All it took was... well, a way of looking at the problem differently. A new perspective on what love truly was.
And how it could help Neverember, well... if the people could learn to love him, that was very good. But if he could produce an heir, or marry the daughter of one of the local lords, and build his line upon the ashes of the old Alagondar family, that was even better. It could solve his problem, namely, winning the hearts of his people... and the Lady would win so much more. The dark North would yield to her love, and after all, doesn't love conquer all? And so, Remini and his priestesses came here, to conquer the Northerner's hearts. |
"What does it take to make us come alive? What does it take to make us sing? While we're waiting for the next one to arrive, one million points of light, one billion... dollar... vision thing" - Sisters of Mercy |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Justhanthalas
Acolyte
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2015 : 14:42:13
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| Thank you! I appreciate it. |
"What does it take to make us come alive? What does it take to make us sing? While we're waiting for the next one to arrive, one million points of light, one billion... dollar... vision thing" - Sisters of Mercy |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1625 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 19:48:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
i'll see if i can find it
of course in 4E things are a bit different with Liira and Sharess part of the family(and no longer Selūne).
I'd not expect that to impact the internal structure of the church, all that much. Organizations do not change readily.
That depends on the organization and the context, and in 4e it was a catoclysmic events, the spellplague, countless worshippers died or were transformsed, two Goddess ended up Exarchs and in service to Sune (they're clergy likely merged at least in part or at least became more connected), Sune herself was having such a hard time with everything she merged with the Elven Goddess of Beautity which really would have shaken things up. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2015 : 23:21:06
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What might interest you is the goddess Ishtar, and how there may be some overlap between Sune, and the remains of Ishtar's faith, in Unther, and countries that were once part of it, or fell under it's influence, like Chessenta, Aglarond. Although that may changed, as Unther is now back, along with Gilgeam, but it doesn't seem Ishtar herself is back.
Still, Sune and Ishtar have some interesting reall world ties. Sune was based of Aphrodite, even with her cleric Adon, being named after Adonis, and his Caananite original name, Adon.
Aphrodite herself, is thought to be up to a level a Greek interpretation of the Caananite goddess Astarte.
Astarte and Adon, in turn were derived from Ishtar, and Tammuz(not present in Realms, from what I know).
Ishtar, and especially Astarte, were connected with practise of sacred prostitution.
Sune is though a MUCH nicer goddess than either Aphrodite or Ishtar, in myths at least.
Especially Aphrodite, read about Psyche, Lemnian Women, brothers of Halia, Hippolytus, Pan and Akhilleus, Eos etc.
Again, many noted Greek gods are especially cruel... |
Edited by - Baltas on 05 Nov 2015 23:22:57 |
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Church of Sune
