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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  09:59:59  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message
Dear THO,

There's a character in The Herald that I'm interested in, and thinking of incorporating in a storyline/campaign I'm developing - Narya Ilunedrel (one of guards of Myth Drannor's Steward of the South Gate). Has she been mentioned in any other published material? Arclath recognizes her, and mentions that his mother had "grudgingly spoken highly" of her. Did she survive the events of The Herald?

Any light that you & Ed can shed on this would be really appreciated!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  15:35:42  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi, BenN, I've tracked down an e-mail from Ed in which he says:

Narya survived, too, sorely wounded, but is under care in Semberholme and expected to survive; the right spells and treatment should replace the right forearm she lost in the fighting.

So saith Ed. And no, Narya isn't, so far as Ed or I know, mentioned in other published Realmslore, but I do know Ed has jotted down something of her story and past dealings with the Delcastles, because that same e-mail mentioned her as one of "half a dozen" elves not of prominent rank, influence, or published Realms profile that Ed "follows" in his imagination to chart the general tenor of the elves in that region (their rises, falls, attitudes, etc.). It might currently be NDA, but I've forwarded your query to him in hopes that it isn't, and you'll get a useful reply.
love,
THO
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1704 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  16:03:44  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message
Just an FYI but wanted to drop in and wish Ed a Happy 50th anniversary of penning "One Came Unheralded to Zirta," aka the birth of the Forgotten Realms!

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  16:54:29  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message
Woohoo! Thank you Ed.
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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
749 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  17:23:56  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message
I apologize if this question has been answered before (and I am sure it has, but my search abilities are miniscule in talent and if it has I kindly ask someone here to throw me the link to it), but here it is.

We are aware that the Realms, in most places, are much more progressive in terms of gender equality than medieval eras of our time, but in such places how does one determine lineage? Does a wife still take the husband's name? Does a husband take the wife's name? How do nobility handle this? Do the names hyphenate? I assume cultural tradition would take precedence, and if so, what nations enforce a male to take on the name of the family he is marrying into (instead of the woman, in most cases). I am assuming there is some sort of agreement between families. I assume it's something along the lines of: "Well, the Talathins have a much better reputation in regards to the populace than, so it would be best if your husband took on the Talathin name. Of course, such a bonding between our two families will make yours very prosperous thereafter, let us not forget." Do I have that correct on some level?

Edited by - Razz on 22 Feb 2015 17:24:29
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  17:26:47  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Happy Birthday Realms!

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Finglas Leaflock
Acolyte

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  17:43:07  Show Profile Send Finglas Leaflock a Private Message
Happy anniversary to Ed, and thanks for the heads-up, Mr. Schend!
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  18:46:54  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message
Happy anniversary and once again thank you for the Realms, Ed

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
955 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  20:05:09  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message
Happy 50th anniversary of the Realms Ed, thank you so much for creating them ! And the Anniversary of penning "One Came Unheralded to Zirta," is on the same day as my Birthday!

Edited by - Baltas on 22 Feb 2015 20:05:23
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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  21:23:44  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Hi, BenN, I've tracked down an e-mail from Ed in which he says:

Narya survived, too, sorely wounded, but is under care in Semberholme and expected to survive; the right spells and treatment should replace the right forearm she lost in the fighting.

So saith Ed. And no, Narya isn't, so far as Ed or I know, mentioned in other published Realmslore, but I do know Ed has jotted down something of her story and past dealings with the Delcastles, because that same e-mail mentioned her as one of "half a dozen" elves not of prominent rank, influence, or published Realms profile that Ed "follows" in his imagination to chart the general tenor of the elves in that region (their rises, falls, attitudes, etc.). It might currently be NDA, but I've forwarded your query to him in hopes that it isn't, and you'll get a useful reply.
love,
THO


Thank you very much THO!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2015 :  23:14:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
You're very welcome. And while we await Ed's responses, I'm reposting here something I just posted in The Secret Creed of Gond thread, here at the Keep, regarding what's said in ELMINSTER'S GUIDE TO THE REALMS about the faith of the Wonderbringer:

* * *
me:
Heh. I was WONDERING how long it would take someone to notice the spellwebs [[note: in the Current Clack section of Ed's Polyhedron 64 Elminster's Everwinking Eye column]] and realize how long Ed has been hinting at this.
But yes, Jeremy's [[Jeremy Grenemyer]] comment has merit. The best way to view this is . . .

(and I'm paraphrasing an explanation Ed gave me, in what follows):

Gond and his highest priests mistrusting magic and trusting in devices and tools and processes that can be fashioned and used without any Art at all. But seeing that magic is "the big hammer" in the world, and they're just going to have to live with that, seeking to have influence through wealth and ruling or more often being "powers behind thrones" instead.
Until the Spellplague hits, they see it as proof positive how dangerous magic is and how much damage over-reliance on the Art can do to everyone, and in the power grab among the deities of the Sundering (with new Tablets of Fate to be written, reflecting the "new current" status, portfolios, and power levels of the deities), the same thing that caused all sorts of Chosen to be created by many gods, they see that it's time, or should be, to move actively against arcane spellcasters. NOT in an open "kill the dirty wizards!" confrontation, because that isn't Gond's way, but to resist and thwart and crowd out and hamper, because it's better for everyone (not just Gond and his faithful) if magic is rare and special and restricted.

So there you have it. And yes, that certainly does seem as if Gond has it in for Waukeen. (Not rape, but subsumption. As in, "conquer and wrest divine power. Perhaps wed or seduce to do so, if that's what it takes to both accomplish it and avoid other gods ganging up on Gond in reaction.") Again, this is based on Ed's hints.
He also took care to add:

The best thing about all of this is that mortals (yep, even gamers!) CAN'T know what's really going on with the gods (as even the gods themselves are often mistaken, spinning things, or outright lying), so this can be "true" or "utterly false" or somewhere in between in your Realms campaign, and so can how much Gond tolerates this move-against-magic approach within his clergy and lay followers. After all, his wisest course, given the great power of the Weave, is to sit back and say and do very little, so if Mystra ever musters her Chosen and/or servitors and/or wizards in general against Gondsmen/Gondar, Gond can say: "It was merely a heresy, never something I agreed with, but as I'm NOT the tyrant Bane or Shar is, it would be wrong of me to crush mortals who espouse it; mortals must grow in insight and mastery of the world with as little steering as we divine can give them, or they have achieved nothing and are not bettered by what they do."

So saith Ed.

* * *


There are other hints and tidbits in ED GREENWOOD PRESENTS ELMINSTER'S GUIDE TO THE REALMS, too. It bears re-reading often, if you love a rich and deep version of the Realms.
love to all,
THO

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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  00:37:29  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Ok, I am confused.

Ed was born in 1959. If the Realms are 50 years old today, then that suggests Zirta was written when Ed was about 5 years old. So approximately 1964.

However, a couple of online sources indicate claim the year was 1967.

Can someone wiser than me sort this out please?

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 23 Feb 2015 00:38:01
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1149 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  01:13:53  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage Send hashimashadoo a Private Message
It was definitely written in the mid 60s. THO has previously stated that it was written in "1967 or so".

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

Head admin of the FR wiki:

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/
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Razz
Senior Scribe

USA
749 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  02:26:55  Show Profile Send Razz a Private Message
Will there ever be another "Elminster's Forgotten Realms?" I would so buy volumes of these. I read that book over and over, and keep wishing another was in the works.
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Baptor
Seeker

USA
93 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  02:59:01  Show Profile  Visit Baptor's Homepage Send Baptor a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

Ok, I am confused.

Ed was born in 1959. If the Realms are 50 years old today, then that suggests Zirta was written when Ed was about 5 years old. So approximately 1964.

However, a couple of online sources indicate claim the year was 1967.

Can someone wiser than me sort this out please?



I've heard Ed say he was 6 years old when he invented the Realms. So that would be at least 1965.

Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6629 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  02:59:11  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo

It was definitely written in the mid 60s. THO has previously stated that it was written in "1967 or so".



Yes, Ed was 8 when he wrote it.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
495 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  06:26:58  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
Although belated, happy anniversary to the Realms! My favorite place to play D&D, even after all these years!

I almost forgot to ask, what does the uniform look like in Neverwinter for the guards, soldiers, watch, etc there? What are the colors that make up the uniform? Do they use a rank system that we've already seen before that I can look up to help me? Are there special awards or titles one can receive for special services to Nasher or the city itself, and if so, could you please mention a few? Also, is there a chapter house of the Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart in Neverwinter?

I'm wanting to play a character from Neverwinter, and having an idea of rank and titles would help a great deal. Thank you for your time!

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart

Edited by - Joran Nobleheart on 23 Feb 2015 06:37:54
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  11:59:48  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message
Dear THO, in 2013 I wrote this question for you to send to Ed, and you told "I think your Moondark queries are about to hit an NDA. But not for all that long." Are there any news about this?

quote:

In the 'Volo's Guide to the North' the legend of the Moondark Mountains, an ancient elven cluster of magic-rich citadels, whose inhabitants apparently left the world through Spelljamming. Have any newer lore been published that confirms those tales, and that says of which elven realms those citadels were part? And I've also noted that the name of the temple of Solonor the Archer God in Evereska is 'Moondark Hill'. Is there any connections between those places that you know about?

I was also wondering if there was any connection between those tales and the stories of winged elves near the Spine of the World. Could you please shed some light over these questions?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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paladinnicolas
Seeker

92 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  17:07:11  Show Profile Send paladinnicolas a Private Message
Hi THO, I'd like to ask Ed if there are detective agencies in the Realms. Thanks!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  18:19:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all!
paladinnicolas, in a word, the answer to your question is: Yes.
Ed will have to provide more details when he can.

To Jeremy, hashimashidoo, and George, re. the genesis of "One Comes, Unheralded, To Zirta": by a weird coincidence, Ed has just been explaining this to one of his closest friends and business partners, and so could readily pass to me his explanation, by just quoting his emails.
So, here we go...
In June of 1965 (so, a little more than a month before Ed's seventh birthday), a six-year-old Ed wrote the first Realms story, which is the first version of ZIRTA.
Here are Ed's own words:

But what I wrote then had a Mirt subplot that didn't work, so what I did when I was eight was rewrite the story to pull those scenes out and craft a "Mirt fleeing from merchants he's swindled in Zirta" story that didn't have Elminster or Alusair or any of the other NPCs in it.

(What Ed means here was that he'd written scenes where Mirt was fleeing, a chase that in the original story just stopped, with the chasers vanishing into thin air without any explanation, when Mirt encountered Elminster and the rest of the story that later got published unfolded from that point.)

The original version of Zirta (Ed's words pick up again):

just sat while I wrote many other short little tales of the Realms (haunted house stories, etc.) until late 1967, when I pulled out the Mirt chase scenes into their own story, and rewrote "Unheralded" into its final form. Which was what I handed to Jeff, years later, for that GenCon handout.
So Zirta WAS written when I was six, but the "proper" version that I handed Jeff was created by a rewrite I did when I was eight.
A lot of my early stories read like "meanwhile" snapshots: they throw in irrelevant scenes about "here's what these other characters were doing at the same time" as well as telling a main story. Just because I wanted to keep track of what those other characters were up to, and didn't give a darn about what publishers might want. I was just writing for my own amusement, and I was SIX, goddamn it. ;}

So there you have it. I've read some of these (mainly short, pencil scrawls on paper) Mirt stories, and they're great fun. Not great fiction, but great fun.

So the Realms turns 50 in June of this year, 2015. Not TSR's published Realms, but the Realms as the creation of Ed Greenwood.
Hope that's all clear.
Yes, Ed was a precocious, lonely little boy (his mother died when he was six) who had written quite an output before he started kindergarten. By the time he hit high school, he had a career going writing novels, and always found the sage advice of English teachers about "creative writing" a tad hilarious. When he started writing book reviews as part of his student masthead duties at Ryerson (in Toronto, Ontario, Canada), when taking a degree in journalism, one of his instructors tore a strip off him for doing a review of QUAG'S KEEP, the first D&DŽ novel, written by Andre Norton, purely because of Ed's "effrontery" in thinking his opinions had any merit at all ("Who are you? Some unknown kid from Canada!") - - and then had to apologize when the instructor contacted local game store owners for quotes, to show Ed what he SHOULD have done to do a "proper" review, and one of those owners told the instructor "Well, the foremost authority on roleplaying games in this country right now is unquestionably Ed Greenwood."
Good times.
Many excellent questions posted, scribes. Off they've all gone to Ed, for whatever he can dredge up by way of Realmslore for us all . . .
love,
THO
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  18:44:06  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Fascinating.
And the published Realms would date from the release date of issue 30 of "The Dragon" (DRAGONŽ Magazine), which contained Ed's monster "The Curst" (then 32, 34, 37 which definitely had the Realms mentioned in the text of Ed's Gates article, and so on).
The Realms as a product line either dates from the issue of DRAGON that included a foldout shiny cardstock "teaser" map of the Heartlands, or the launch of the Doug Niles DARKWALKER ON MOONSHAE novel that came out a few months later (1987). If I'm remembering the timing of the Dragon inclusion map correctly.
So the published Realms, as a product line, is 28 years old this year.
I know Ed published Realms fragments and short stories in various venues, including a small-circulation magazine called THE CAMPAIGN HACK that had over a hundred issues, over the years, and I've heard him say at conventions that some of the earlier published Realms things were well before TSR bought the Realms, or even existed as a company.
So the "published" Realms (on paper; no e-books or Internet back then) probably date from 1970 or so, which would make them 45 years old this year.
But if we go with the legal definition of "published" as disseminated to others (so if you give a public speech, you've "published" your words), then the Realms is fifty years old right now, because I know that not only Ed's father read and enjoyed Ed's Realms efforts, he took them to work for his co-workers to enjoy, and they got passed around, and Ed got REQUESTS to write more about this character or that character. (This comes from hanging out with Ed at conventions, and attending those early seminars and panels at GenCons.)
What I don't know is who those co-workers would have been. Ed's dad (physicist, expertise in radar and electronics) worked for Canadian Arsenals, and something called Ferrante-Packard (but when or in what order, I don't know), then Canadian General Electric, and then became a professor at Ryerson, a job he held until he retired. Ed's father died in 2008, so we can't ask him, and I don't know if even Ed knows or remembers the dates of when his dead worked for whom. Just about everybody at his father's workplaces would be dead now, anyway.
Ed's Dad sounds like a great guy. I mean, he reacted to his son discovering the stuff that passed for porn in his book collection back then by showing him where the rest of the naughty stuff was hidden.
BB
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  19:19:58  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Thank you THO and Blueblade. :)

Edit: oh drat...wouldn't Ed have to have been born in '58 to turn seven in '65? I thought he was born in '59. I must seem like the worst of nitpickers.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 23 Feb 2015 19:38:22
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  20:43:48  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. You are right, Jeremy. Ed was six in June of 1966, so it must have been that year (he would have turned six in July of 1965). He rewrote Unheralded in "late" (fall/autumn) of 1967, when he was eight.
And I wasn't around back then, to teach Ed how to count.
love,
THO
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A Publishing Lackey
Seeker

74 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  23:51:39  Show Profile  Visit A Publishing Lackey's Homepage Send A Publishing Lackey a Private Message
I'm just guessing here, not operating from personal knowledge of Ed's family, but from what I can tell, Ed's father's PROBABLE progression of employment, just going by when companies shut down or got bought or stopped doing most electrical work (as I do know, from my own professional past, that Ed's dad was a physicist specializing in radar, radio, and electronics) was:
Canadian Arsenals Ltd.
then:
Ferranti-Packard
then:
CGE
and finally a professor at Ryerson.
Ferranti shed most of its electronics guys in 1964, and CGE effectively shut down in 1989, so that would mean Ed's dad was sharing Ed's stories with fellow employees at Canadian General Electric. The ones that were into fantasy and sf.
I can just picture it.
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2015 :  15:09:31  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
That squares with a story Ed told us at the Great Canadian Baycon in Hamilton years back. About some of his father's co-workers, when they came to supper at the Greenwood household, sitting around the dinner table.
They thanked the young Ed for his entertaining writings they'd been enjoying, and he in turn asked them what they wanted to see more of - - and then they hemmed and hawed and stumbled, in front of Ed's dad and either his grandmother or his maiden aunt (those ladies took turns to step in to play homemaker and raise the Greenwood children after the death of Ed's mother), as they tried to ask the very young Ed to write love or sex scenes involving particular characters he'd written about. Without the grandmother/maiden aunt realizing what they were asking, and without angering Ed's dad . . . who, Ed says, was more or less on their side but hadn't the foggiest about how to ask his young son to write erotica.
And Ed, who caught on right away, was trying to play the bright, eager, "Oh, you mean like those scenes where ladies tease men? In their nighties and such?" card and communicate that he would be happy to, in a sort of code, and his Dad kept LOOKING at him and wondering WHAT he'd come across in his reading . . .
Ed had us in stitches. Pound the table laughter. When he gets going, Ed's a hoot of a comedian.
BB
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Vulpes
Acolyte

4 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2015 :  04:35:34  Show Profile Send Vulpes a Private Message
First time, long time!

I've long wondered about the Imaskari, specifically their penchant for dimensional magic (portals, extradimensional spaces, planar travel, etc.). The Grand History of the Relams intimates that they may have at least been influenced by Batrachi designs in creating the Bukhara Spires that knit their empire together, but even before that they were experimenting with extradimensional spaces. Was this due to Batrachi influence as well, or something they discovered and developed themselves? Was it something specific to Imaskari culture that made them take to this kind of magic in a way that no other culture on Toril has ever done before or since, or a historical accident?

If Ed can shed any insight, it would be much appreciated, as all his lore is.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2015 :  08:06:38  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message
Apologies if this has been asked, or ruled out... I'm a little foggy headed at the moment and can't think how to search for it.

Is the Old Skull the crashed and weathered remnant of a Netherese city? Or, perhaps, a cloud/storm giant city?

I just had a vision of an enclave landing on Monikar's big temple of Kozah, during the Fall. Irony, poetic something something, Hoar steeples his fingers and chuckles. I'm seriously tired.

Also, though, it seems like the presence (or suspicion) of unknown (or known to some) Netherese magic here might help explain Alokkair's choice of this particular area for his lair.

Something about that guy keeps whispering to me...
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5056 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  20:10:36  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
I don't think Ed has ever hinted that the Old Skull was anything more than a natural feature: an unusually-large and bare, for the forested surroundings, "knob" of solid bedrock.
However, there ARE some ancient magical secrets about Shadowdale, some of them as yet unrevealed even to we Knights, so there ARE reasons Alokkair is where he is.
So off your musings go to Ed, xaeyruudh, to see what he might be nudged into sharing . . .
love,
THO
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  20:15:04  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Well again, THO and ED!

Ed, if you were given the task of writing a romance novel set in modern day Cormyr, with steamy sex scenes, passion-filled prose, etc., what location springs to mind as a good place to set such a tale, and in what ways would you go about the writing differently than when you write a standard Cormyr novel?

Also, which NPCs living in Cormyr would be the perfect character choices for the book?

Thank you both, as always. :D

EDIT: in general, what do you think of the idea of expanding the Realms novel line to other genres? Me? If WotC published romance novels set in the Realms, I'd read 'em.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 26 Feb 2015 20:17:59
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paladinnicolas
Seeker

92 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  20:53:23  Show Profile Send paladinnicolas a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO, I have a question that may be a bit odd... but from a political point of view, the situation of Waterdeep's rulers seems a bit odd to me. The fact that save for Piergeiron and other open lords, always one at a time, all other lords have an unknown identity, seems counterintuitive to me. After all, currently most political scientists and lawyers argue that publicness and transparency are factors of accountability and rule of law. Therefore, I'd like to ask if some have called for a change in the political situation in Waterdeep, if some masked lords have abused their position, and if the political system has engendered problems there. Thanks!
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