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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 18:45:36
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Hi, sages!
I'd like to know if there are exact dates for the following Realmsian events:
In 1368 DR:
- Velsharoon's apotheosis;
- The founding of Oghma's Fountain of Knowledge temple in Waterdeep;
- The parting of the sky caravan, from the novel "Dream Spheres", and it's date of return (and ambush).
In 1369 DR:
- Silverymoon is attacked by Blue bear barbarians, cambions, tieflings and demons (which type?);
- Lady Alustriel's leaving the throne in Silverymoon, putting Taern Hornblade as the High Mage in her place;
- Destruction of Hellgate Keep by Harpers using the Gatekeeper's Crystal.
I'd prefer canon dates with source references, but if there are none, the approximate time of the year would suffice. I know, for example, that Silverymoon was attacked in the summer of 1369, I just don't know if it was before or after Alustriel resigned.
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 19:37:27
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I can help with two of the 1369 dates, though neither have a firm answer. The attack on Silverymoon was in the first half of the year. I haven't been able to narrow it further. The tanar'ri were cambions, under the leadership of the annis hag Tanta Hagara and the cambion Khaanyr Vhok. Probably a high number of the cambions were the orc-cambions called Tanarukka, though that isn't explicitly stated.
My guess would be in the latter half of the first half (ie: Mirtul, Kythorn, or Flamerule), since the Harpers infiltrated the Keep at the start of the year, and first tried to disrupt things by revealing Hagara as a hag. Only when that failed did they switch to "make her over-extend herself," and Hagara first scouted with small companies before she marched armies on Silverymoon. So probably late Kythorn or any time in Flamerule would be the most likely.
I can do a bit better with the fall of Hellgate Keep: Tanta Hagara didn't receive word about Turlang helping defend the Citadel of the Mists until mid-Eleasias. That news is what made her form up her army and march out. Figure it took several days to gather and arm everyone, and then several more to march, and you're looking at a late Eleasias date for the destruction of Hellgate Keep. Maybe first week of Elient if it took longer than expected to organize the army or march (I haven't checked distances between the Keep and the Citadel).
All of this is coming from The North box set and the Hellgate Keep adventure. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2014 : 03:10:19
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The North goes on to say that Lady Alustriel called a conference of the leaders of the North after the fall of Hellgate Keep. Like Hoondatha says, the keep appears to have fallen in late Eleasis or early Eleint. The conference took two and a half tendays for deliberations, before everyone headed back home for the winter. It was during the last tenday of the conference that Alustriel resigned.
If Hellgate Keep fell in early Eleint, then perhaps the conference convened in Marpenoth. Alustriel's resignation probably took place around the end of that month. I doubt the conference members would've wanted to travel back to their respective homes after the snow had begun falling in full, so the entire conference would probably have occurred relatively sooner after the fall of the keep, rather than later.
One open agenda item of that conference was the name of the new confederation of city-states to be headed by Alustriel. The conference was supposed to reconvene every six months, and Alustriel wanted to have the name settled by midsummer, 1370 DR.
According to Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, early in the year of 1370 (presumably in the spring), Alustriel tasked Drizzt to report back to her on the threats of the Underdark and the viability of the gnomish town of Blingdenstone as an additional member of the confederation. Bruenor is recorded as imploring the conference to admit Blingdenstone forthwith, and he already addressed the new nation as the Alliance of Luruar.
And then Drizzt submitted his report on the last day of that year. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2014 : 17:07:04
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Thank you very much to both of you for the quite accurate answers, they were very helpful. I have a campaign running between Waterdeep and Silverymoon, we are in Eleint 1368 DR, and I want to incorporate at least part of these events in my game.
If anyone else has comments to add about these and other of the events mentioned, I'd appreciate.
PS: Found the following references in the 2e Hellgate Keep adventure:
"The Blue Bear tribe members outnumbered the cambions, tieflings, and the few lesser tanar'ri left by three to one, though their power was insignificant save in those numbers."
and
"Tanta Hagara assembled a huge army of more than 100 cambions and full tanar'ri and over 400 Blue Bear tribesfolk and led them to attack the Mistmaster's Citadel to gain the magics therein."
So, I think they had some full demons, probably of the types cited in the folowing paragraph, about the demons released after the destruction of the infamous keep:
"DMs can affect their campaigns in serious ways by having scores of tanar'ri free and wandering about the North, though the majority should be of lesser tanar'ri status and easily hidden by shapechanging abilities, such as bar-lgura, succubi, and incubi. Officially, the Dire Woods and eastern High Forest now host at least 30 bar-lgura and 60 manes. In addition, at least seven succubi hide within Yartar, Sundabar, and Everlund."
The book also mentions alu-fiends. Besides, I see no reason for them not to have dretch and rutterkin in their ranks (least tanar'ri in 2e).
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"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 30 Dec 2014 13:15:03 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 29 Dec 2014 : 19:22:48
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*snaps fingers*
That's who I was thinking about the other day. What happened to the Mistmaster? From what I remember, he was pretty powerful. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 13:22:42
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| Powerful, indeed. In 2e his stats say he is a 19th level cleric (no deity mentioned) AND a 26th level (!!!) illusionist. Besides having elementals, pegasi and other powerful allies in his Citadel of the Mists. That's a good question - which deity does he follow? Maybe Leira? If so, he would not have all the powers of a 19th level cleric, right? Which one, then? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2014 : 12:48:11
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| As for the other events, or for more precise canon answers for those already cited, anybody else? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2014 : 19:41:27
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Hmm. Let's see.
Powers and Pantheons states that Velsharoon ascended at the "end of 1368." No more specific date is set, but considering he was using a ritual, I would assume it would need to be done on a specific day of importance. That means either the Feast of the Moon, or, less likely, the last day of the year. But that's just my conjecture.
Faiths and Avatars says that the Font of Knowledge was completed on Midsummer, 1368. It's still under construction in City of Splendors, and it's noted that it is "newly dedicated" as a temple. Since CoS is set in 1367, it's likely that the warehouses that become the Font are purchased either in the last few months of 1366, or at the start of 1367. Perhaps from a coster that went out of business?
Sorry I can't nail things down more specifically. And I'm away from my novel collection, so can't comment either way on the caravan. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2014 : 20:03:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Hmm. Let's see.
Powers and Pantheons states that Velsharoon ascended at the "end of 1368." No more specific date is set, but considering he was using a ritual, I would assume it would need to be done on a specific day of importance. That means either the Feast of the Moon, or, less likely, the last day of the year. But that's just my conjecture.
My vote would be for the last day of the year... The old year is dying, which could symbolize death. And it's the cusp of a new year, symbolizing a new beginning -- which apotheosis would certainly be. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 18:22:19
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| It seems the caravan departs after Zaranda is considered the Queen of Tethyr, and before Prince Haedrak appears in Waterdeep asking for help in the Reclamation Wars. I think this specifically occurs in High Harvestide or just after that date, right? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 03 Jan 2015 23:51:53 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 19:15:29
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| Yep. Per Lands of Intrigue, Haedrak reveals himself in Waterdeep on High Harvesttide. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2015 : 21:56:25
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| According to my copy of The Dream Spheres and other Waterdeep sources I have, these are what is known about the sky caravan: The sky caravan left within a day or two of the Gemstone Ball, but certainly no later than a tenday after the Gemstone Ball. If memory serves, the Gemstone Ball is held as one of the first in the season of harvest festivals. I would put it anywhere from mid-Eleint to just before High Harvestide, 1368 DR. Sorry I can't narrow it down any more than that. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
Edited by - Xnella Moonblade-Thann on 01 Jan 2015 22:08:56 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jan 2015 : 00:03:49
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| Thank you very much, it helps me a lot. News about the caravan failure were told by Rhammas Thann to Danilo at High Harvestide, or just a few days after that, while the city was still abuzz with the appearance of Haedrak. I think the next noticeable event would be the arrival of the forest elves, but maybe it would be a minor event. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 04 Jan 2015 00:11:28 |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2015 : 20:31:38
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| The forest elves from Tethyr made enough of a ruckus at the gates to Waterdeep that those who live/work in the area of the gates (and saw the forest elves as they gathered at Greenglade Tower to help prevent the noble houses from creating a full-blown, city-wide war in retaliation to the tren attacks that never happened thanks to the forest elves, Elaith, Arilyn and Danilo.) would know that they were there, so there must have been some rumors floating around as to what the wild elves would be up to. Not a major event, but not really a minor one either. Definitely noticeable to those who saw them, though. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 13:04:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
(...) Not a major event, but not really a minor one either. Definitely noticeable to those who saw them, though.
Agreed. Any idea of a probable date for these events, and for their leaving? is the Greenglade Tower open, or people would only notice a group of forest elves entering the place? I think other elves were also invited there, right? Thinking of it, I believe there would be at least some impact among the elves of the city. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2015 : 18:57:53
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| I'm away from my books at the moment, but if you have a copy of The Dream Spheres, you can find more there about what happened in Waterdeep during that timeframe. There was a few short stories that also took place right around then (they can be found in The Best of the Realms III: The Stories of Elaine Cunningham and Realms of War). All I can remember is it was after High Harvestide but before any significant snowfall (maybe a flurry or two, but nothing that would stick around for more than a few hours), and before Elaith, Arilyn and Danilo joined in the restoration movement in Tethyr. |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2015 : 03:21:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
(...) before Elaith, Arilyn and Danilo joined in the restoration movement in Tethyr.
Have they? When - and in which book? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2015 : 21:28:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Powerful, indeed. In 2e his stats say he is a 19th level cleric (no deity mentioned) AND a 26th level (!!!) illusionist. Besides having elementals, pegasi and other powerful allies in his Citadel of the Mists. That's a good question - which deity does he follow? Maybe Leira? If so, he would not have all the powers of a 19th level cleric, right? Which one, then?
Silver Marches says the Mistmaster is a cleric of Deneir, though he's drastically reduced in power (no doubt due to the level conventions of 3rd edition) to Illusionist 16/Cleric 9. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2015 : 20:41:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
quote:
Originally posted by Xnella Moonblade-Thann
(...) before Elaith, Arilyn and Danilo joined in the restoration movement in Tethyr.
Have they? When - and in which book?
It's been mentioned at the end of The Dream Spheres that Arilyn threatened to take action against the new government/monarchy if the elves of Tethyr were ever threatened again (the following is taken from my ebook copy of The Dream Spheres):
"...The spectre of renewed warfare threatened Tethyr, and they had both [Arilyn and Danilo] pledged themselves to Haedrak's cause--with one stipulation. They would fight with the forest elves and for them. Anyone in Tethyr who took arms against any of the People, even if that person were Haedrak himself, might face the small army of northern elves gathering under Elaith's command. Or--and Arilyn had been very clear on this--such a person might face one of the many assassins who still plagued the land and whose names were known to her. This "offer" had gained generous concessions from the would-be king. He had promised Elaith lands and title in the south, and Foxfire a place in the new order as advisor and ambassador."
It is also mentioned in The Best of the Realms III: The Stories of Elaine Cunningham and Realms of War that Elaith, Arilyn and Danilo have made plans to go south to Tethyr to help the elves and get involved in the restoration. I've seen very obscure references in the Lands of Intrigue box set, the 3.x Waterdeep sourcebook, and various musings on here that indicated they had been involved to some degree in the Restoration Movement. That's all I can come up with off the top of my head at the moment. I will have more later if asked (I must head off to work now). |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2015 : 14:14:47
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Very nice! I'd appreciate if you could discover when Arilyn, Danilo, Elaith and these northern elves went to Tethyr.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2015 : 10:11:05
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Here is what I found among Elaine Cunningham's musings posted here at the 'Keep:
"Musings on Danilo and Arilyn, post-Dream Spheres
Date unknown
WARNING AND DISCLAIMER:
The story lines described below are NOT part of official WotC lore. This is simply the direction I envision my characters taking after the last book. Not all of these events will become published books; in fact, it's quite possible that none of them will see print. But I believe in keeping an ongoing backstory for each of my main characters. This helps me keep continuity, and adds a layer to the characters that sometimes manages to find its way into the stories, even if much of the material remains offstage. And quite frankly, I enjoy spending time with these characters and like keeping track of what they're "doing." I keep an ongoing story file - a journal of sorts - which is fun to do and which should come in handy if, somewhere down the line, WotC requests another story in the "Songs & Swords" series.
The events of DREAM SPHERES occurred in DR 1368. During that year, Prince Haedrak visited Waterdeep, gathering support for his return to his ancestral land. He marched for Tethyr in the company of many Waterdhavian nobles, adventurers, and mercenaries. This much is known. What follows is "back story."
Among these Waterdhavians were Danilo, Arilyn, and Elaith Craulnober. All three go to Tethyr and participate in the turbulent Reclamation period. Danilo enters court life, where his foppish persona - which was wearing thin in Waterdeep and becoming difficult to maintain - comes back into play. Arilyn has never fully recovered from the injury dealt her by the moonblade. Her sword has always been problematic, and when its most newly acquired power leads her into near disaster, Arilyn must decide whether to put aside the moonblade forever and redefine not only her methods, but herself. Elaith takes up the cause of the southern elves. Although his methods are still ruthless and he's still as nasty and conflicted as ever, he becomes something of an elven Robin Hood. Elves in polite society decry his methods, but they're secretly smirking in delight as word of each new exploit reaches them. (In the long run, of course, this could do more to hurt elven/human relationships than help.)
And Danilo has acquired a dwarven butler, Hamish, and a court hanger-on - Ghee Dulessop, a young man of wealthy if not noble family who is, in fact, what Dan pretends to be: silly, shallow, a would-be ladies' man, a fop and a bit of a fool. Ghee has come to Tethyr to win lands and title, and, if Sune smiles upon him, to despoil many a fair maid. (In this case, Sune apparently does a lot of smirking, but never actually smiles....) Danilo is Ghee's chosen role model, and the young man is always underfoot. This amuses Arilyn, who views it as a sort of cosmic justice. Hamish, an unlikely expert on court protocol, delights in giving Ghee terrible advice and watching the inevitable results. To say that Arilyn and Hamish don't get along would be a bit of an understatement. And Isabeau Thione is creating trouble in Tethyr, as is her mother Lucia Thione, whom you may remember from ELFSONG. Hasheth is rising in the ranks of Tethyrian organized crime. Elaith might have something to say about this. What with one thing and another, they all manage to keep busy for well over a year.
As mentioned, Danilo and Arilyn spent the winter of 1370 in Silverymoon. The "little one" referred to in Khelben's letter at the conclusion of EVERMEET does not refer to their child. Sorry for the misleading reference, but I'd rather not go into details about this at present. Khelben's letter doesn't refer to what they're doing in Silverymoon, and for good reason: he doesn't know. Danilo is there on the pretense of promoting the new bard's college. As is usually the case with Danilo, there's the facade and then there's the reality. Khelben politely hopes that Arilyn is enjoying good hunting: he might not have said this had he known what Dan and Arilyn were really looking for.
That brings us up to the end of 1371. I believe "current time" is now 1372. As winter receeds, "Princess Arilyn" receives a royal elven summons - from young King Lamruil, who is experiencing some difficulties in his hidden, ice-bound kingdom. Danilo is currently having a fashionable new fur cloak made to his measure. He's gonna need it.
As for Elaith, well, he has his own royal challenge. This is really, really far into the future, so all I can say is that he's in for his own dose of cosmic justice.
And that pretty much brings us up to date."
Although this is unofficial lore (as in non-canon), I hope this helps, Barastir!  |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2015 : 14:45:43
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It helps a lot, Xnella, thank you very, very much!  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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Dates of events in 1368 and 1369 DR
