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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 19:33:12
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Some things Perkins said that I like:
quote:
Preserving continuity is an ongoing challenge, but we’re fortunate to have a group of writers who talk to one another and who are well versed in Realms lore. They’re very good at internalizing canonical elements that are important for the stories they want to tell. If a writer comes across a continuity issue, we have consultants who are Realms experts to help iron things out.
quote:
Our novelists are part of the story-planning process, and we’ll be relying on them to help us “break” and tell those stories, or parts thereof.
quote:
We lost the fans’ confidence in our stewardship of the setting. By reintroducing familiar elements and focusing on the things that made people fall in love with the Realms in the first place, we’re gradually showing fans that the things they like most about the world are back.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 11 Dec 2014 19:37:35 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 20:18:44
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From the interview
quote:
We’d rather let the fans tell us what they like about the Realms and focus on those elements going forward
I don't get it, how are they going to let fans tell them what they like about the Realms? People have been expressing their preferences on what they like/dislike or miss the most for years now... Are they going to put up some polls and decide from them, or something?
quote:
We lost the fans’ confidence in our stewardship of the setting. By reintroducing familiar elements and focusing on the things that made people fall in love with the Realms in the first place, we’re gradually showing fans that the things they like most about the world are back.
I like this too, but they should accelerate the 'gradually' a little bit, because we have been told something similar 2 years ago and -unless they have something big not yet revealed- they still seem to have no precise plan for the full extent of the changes that the Sundering has brought/will bring to the Realms. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 11 Dec 2014 20:23:40 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 20:24:22
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| I'm curious to know just who the consultants/Realms experts are that WotC is using to help guide writers when they hit a Realmslore snag. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 20:44:09
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I am in agreement with pretty much everything said in this thread, already.
I should like to note another line that caught my attention:
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One of the great things about D&D is that these worlds all exist in the same multiverse, allowing us to travel from one world to another as story and opportunity allows.
I'm glad to see them going back to this approach, as opposed to the post-2E approach of "nope, the Realms isn't connected to any other setting, despite past lore!" |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 21:19:07
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To be fair, the Realms was not disconnected from other settings. Rather, WotC elected to not emphasize the connections in order to bring the full focus of gaming products back onto the Realms, and to give the setting a cosmology that reflected the setting and not the wider multiverse.
I understand perfectly well that for some this approach pretty much means disconnecting the setting from other worlds, but in terms of canon Realmslore the Realms was isolated, not disconnected.
I'm not keen on WotC lumping all the settings together again, but I think the danger isn't there so long as we don't have several campaign worlds being focused on at the same time. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 11 Dec 2014 21:20:43 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 23:08:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am in agreement with pretty much everything said in this thread, already.
I should like to note another line that caught my attention:
quote:
One of the great things about D&D is that these worlds all exist in the same multiverse, allowing us to travel from one world to another as story and opportunity allows.
I'm glad to see them going back to this approach, as opposed to the post-2E approach of "nope, the Realms isn't connected to any other setting, despite past lore!"
Spoken like a true Spelljammer. Having never played that setting, how does travel between Spheres correlate to extra-planar adventures? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2014 : 23:21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I am in agreement with pretty much everything said in this thread, already.
I should like to note another line that caught my attention:
quote:
One of the great things about D&D is that these worlds all exist in the same multiverse, allowing us to travel from one world to another as story and opportunity allows.
I'm glad to see them going back to this approach, as opposed to the post-2E approach of "nope, the Realms isn't connected to any other setting, despite past lore!"
Spoken like a true Spelljammer. Having never played that setting, how does travel between Spheres correlate to extra-planar adventures?
There really isn't a correlation. With Spelljammer, you're remaining in the Prime, and still have to deal with the usual threats of the Prime -- Spelljammer just adds the possibility of taking it into space, and to other planets. In essence, it's a variation on sea travel.
Planar travel, on the other hand, involves going into other planes of existence. You're traveling to other dimensions, really, where the laws of physics can sometimes be wildly different, and where the environment can be more hostile than anything found on the Prime. Some of the locals are nastier than anything you'll find on the Prime, too.
The only common points, really, are that you can use either method to travel to other worlds, and it is possible to use spelljammers on other planes. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2014 : 04:55:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer:
I'm curious to know just who the consultants/Realms experts are that WotC is using to help guide writers when they hit a Realmslore snag.
Me too. Hopefully the list starts with Ed (though obviously he should be more than a "consultant", he still needs to be at the top of the list), Jeff Grubb, Steven, Eric, and George. I'll be happy if the list continues with Brian & Matt James, and Brian Cortijo. Adding you, Markus, and a couple of the FR Wiki admins would be icing on the cake.
Also: I wish they would consult these consultants before trying to fix anything on their own.
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 12 Dec 2014 05:01:03 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2014 : 18:08:42
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I'm more of the 'geography go-to guy' then an FR consultant. I nudge a little here, and tweak a bit there, but I do not stand upon the shoulders of giants... I stand in awe of them. 
FR is like an ogre, which is like an onion (sorry, I like Shrek ) - it has many, MANY layers. I think, sometimes, even Ed gets a surprise when another layer is peeled back. No-one person can keep track of it all - it takes a village.
As for who the 'consultants' are, I can only guess, but from what I have seen everyone has their own specialty, including many of 'the regulars' here. Its not a simple painting - its a mozaic, and all of us holds a little piece. Sometimes you just have to step back to see 'the big picture'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 19:42:50
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How do people find these articles? Lol I feel so out of the loop. I'm not on the WotC site much. I spend more time here because of it's focus on the Realms, but maybe I should poke around...
Being a devout fan is exhausting sometimes lol XD |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 21:51:28
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
How do people find these articles? Lol I feel so out of the loop. I'm not on the WotC site much. I spend more time here because of it's focus on the Realms, but maybe I should poke around...
Being a devout fan is exhausting sometimes lol XD
ENWorld is a rather popular site among table-top gamers. I believe it's one of the bigger independent gaming websites out there, though I could be mistaken. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 12:59:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I'm curious to know just who the consultants/Realms experts are that WotC is using to help guide writers when they hit a Realmslore snag.
I'm curious as to why they are relying on authors to recognize that they have hit a realmslore snag. History would tend to indicate that they rarely suffer from such epiphanies.
The Swordsage |
Edited by - Swordsage on 20 Dec 2014 13:01:22 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36805 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 14:56:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I'm curious to know just who the consultants/Realms experts are that WotC is using to help guide writers when they hit a Realmslore snag.
I'm curious as to why they are relying on authors to recognize that they have hit a realmslore snag. History would tend to indicate that they rarely suffer from such epiphanies.
The Swordsage
It depends on the authors. Some are quite serious about maintaining continuity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2014 : 15:03:05
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'History' has also showed a dwindling FR audience, which means less sales of everything - you don't need an 'epiphany' when your wallet is empty.
But what I think it comes down to is this - they realized when they started designing 4e that there was just WAY TOO MUCH lore to keep track of, for any one person. Had they started keeping track years ago (as Paizo has done since the beginning), then maybe the company could have kept a tight reign on the lore. Inconsistencies kept creeping-in more and more as the guys in charge lost track of everything (and we could theorize about why that was happening, but it all comes down to NOT having an FR traffic-cop, or at least, an editor who actually knew the lore half as well as a lot of fans do). Their solution was 4e, which obliterated the need to know past lore... or so they thought.
It backfired, because fans knew that most of 4e's premise itself was inconsistent with the past lore, and that caused a 'disconnect'.
So, they are still aware of this huge problem, and at the same time, need to fix their last fix. This is where these 'FR consultants/experts' (Erik DeBie's old 'CORE' idea) come in - let the fans/designers who know the lore like the back of their hand be the guiding hand. The authors now know they can't depend on the editors - they need to ask various individuals, "does this sound right to you?". This is where the major change in direction comes in - instead of removing past lore, they are now embracing it, and those who know it. They've finally figured-out you shouldn't get rid of that which made FR great in the first place.
I smile when I think about it, because this situation reminds me of how I handled my own construction business (and could probably be applied to most industries). When I gave someone a price for something, and they said, "my neighbor said he would do it for this much", or, "I found a guy someone knows who said it should only cost such-and-such", I'd just smile and say, "Thats great - use them". When I went to leave they'd be like, "aren't you even going to try and match that price?", I'd say, "don't have to - I'll be back to fix whatever they screw up, and it will cost you more".
Experts are EXPERTS for a reason - their knowledge is what makes them important. When you 'go cheap' (in this case - just erasing FR's past), you get cheap results. Once in a blue moon you get lucky, but most of the time you just get stuck with something that is broken far worse then when you started.
And this is where we are at - fortunately, there are people willing to 'step up' (designers who also happen to be fans) and help get this ship back on course. Ed isn't just the captain - he's everything from the rudder to the figurehead. The other experts are just salty old sailors who know what ropes to tie-off, and what cargo needs to be jettisoned. All IMHO, of course. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Dec 2014 15:08:01 |
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 00:45:15
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I have not been asked to consult as an "expert" on the 5E Realms, and as far as I'm aware, neither has George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Tom Costa, Steven Schend or anyone else you might name. The only folks contributing to the 5E Realms beyond WotC employees Matt Sernett and Chris Perkins are the Sundering authors themselves.
Many of you may recall that James Wyatt invited many of us Realms lorelords to a design summit roughly three years ago. Sadly, the meeting was little more than a PR stunt to get us "old guard" on board with the Sundering. No such meeting has been held since, so it comes as no surprise to us that the realmslore that trickled out thus far has been sparse and underwhelming.
Preserving continuity is only a challenge for WotC because their pride prevents them from reaching out to the very individuals with the knowledge to help. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
Edited by - Brian R. James on 21 Dec 2014 00:45:56 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 02:22:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I have not been asked to consult as an "expert" on the 5E Realms, and as far as I'm aware, neither has George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Tom Costa, Steven Schend or anyone else you might name. The only folks contributing to the 5E Realms beyond WotC employees Matt Sernett and Chris Perkins are the Sundering authors themselves.
Many of you may recall that James Wyatt invited many of us Realms lorelords to a design summit roughly three years ago. Sadly, the meeting was little more than a PR stunt to get us "old guard" on board with the Sundering. No such meeting has been held since, so it comes as no surprise to us that the realmslore that trickled out thus far has been sparse and underwhelming.
Preserving continuity is only a challenge for WotC because their pride prevents them from reaching out to the very individuals with the knowledge to help.
Damn, what a bummer. I don't know whether to believe anything WotC says anymore. One discouraging new after another  |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 21 Dec 2014 02:24:14 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 02:33:47
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| They claimed they were going to start listening to fans more, but I wonder how much they are actually going to do that. I think they might be trying to, but they obviously have their own agenda. They can't make everyone happy, of course, but it still seems like there was a lot promises and not a lot of follow through, but maybe we just haven't seen it yet. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 02:37:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I have not been asked to consult as an "expert" on the 5E Realms, and as far as I'm aware, neither has George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Tom Costa, Steven Schend or anyone else you might name. The only folks contributing to the 5E Realms beyond WotC employees Matt Sernett and Chris Perkins are the Sundering authors themselves.
Many of you may recall that James Wyatt invited many of us Realms lorelords to a design summit roughly three years ago. Sadly, the meeting was little more than a PR stunt to get us "old guard" on board with the Sundering. No such meeting has been held since, so it comes as no surprise to us that the realmslore that trickled out thus far has been sparse and underwhelming.
Preserving continuity is only a challenge for WotC because their pride prevents them from reaching out to the very individuals with the knowledge to help.
That's really depressing. :( |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 02:44:05
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It all comes down to Ed. 'They' talk to and listen to Ed.
And Ed talks to and listens to us (and confers with people like Eric, Krash, Steven, etc).
Like I said above, Ed isn't just the captain, he IS the ship at this point. If you can't trust him, you can't trust anyone. All roads lead back to him. The Authors tap Ed, and Ed has the knowledge to tap the right people for the right information.
Don't get depressed yet - give it a bit more time. There is a light at the end of the tunnel, me thinks.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Dec 2014 14:19:20 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 03:46:40
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It's all good. I know Ed is optimistic and that's a good thing.
It's not like I'm going anywhere anyways. I've been a Realms fan since 1990 when at the tender age of 10 I was introduced to the novel Homeland by my cousin. First book I ever bought was Streams of Silver because I didn't know what a trilogy was back then. But hey it had a dwarf with skulls and that looked like it was cool.
And here I am almost 25 years later still knocking around Faerun. Mostly below ground, because I might be part dwarf. Or drow, depends on if I've had my coffee yet. ;)
And like a drunken dwarf, on I ramble. hehehe |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 04:40:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
And like a drunken dwarf, on I ramble. hehehe
That's the best kind of dwarf there is! 
I don't have the range or breadth of Realmslore knowledge that those heavyweights mentioned have. But I know my RAS/Drizzt stuff pretty darn well. I offer it up to whomever can put it to good use.
Heck, maybe it even won't be omitted from the next book.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 07:19:46
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Well I guess you have to have gaming products in the works to even be considered for "consultation". As that isn't happening, I guess that is that.
As for consulting for the fiction line, Ed doesn't need handholding clearly. I know that Erin Evans asked for and received some able feedback from our own Garen Thal (Brian Cortijo) on Cormyr. I personally haven't been tapped on the shoulder by either RA Salvatore or Troy Denning for any input, so they are either getting help from somewhere else, don't need it or are, as Markustay noted, going straight to the source in Ed.
Impiltur doesn't really seem like a place the fiction line will be visiting soon, so my chances of a call up are slim, I reckon!
I'd love to help out with the 5E Realms if that ever comes to fruition, but as Brian pointed out, the original group enlisted to comment on the Sundering hasn't been reconvened. I'm pretty sure Eric Boyd scared the bejeezus out of them when a couple of days later he came up with a lore-laden, over-arching explanation for the Sundering dynamic. He's scary like that.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 07:44:01
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Come to think of it, their passive decision to not explore Impiltur in novels seems kinda misguided. It's got the same "prototypical fantasy kingdom" underpinnings as Cormyr, with more toppings: worse humanoid and demonic threats than Cormyr has, oh and pirates too, plus vibrant and interesting neighbors. (Sembia and the Tunlands have not been made interesting in the 1e-3e sources I'm familiar with, whereas Damara and the Vast were born interesting.) And while it has knights superficially similar to the Purple Dragons, it lacks an internationally infamous crew of War Wizards and the constant watching eyes of many Harpers. And Ilmater as a state religion? Who else does that?
So in a points-of-light sense and on a looking-at-the-unusual-details level, Impiltur is actually more ripe for novels than Cormyr, by virtue of being nearer a frontier and less conventional.
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 21 Dec 2014 07:45:24 |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 14:08:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
I have not been asked to consult as an "expert" on the 5E Realms, and as far as I'm aware, neither has George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Tom Costa, Steven Schend or anyone else you might name. The only folks contributing to the 5E Realms beyond WotC employees Matt Sernett and Chris Perkins are the Sundering authors themselves.
Many of you may recall that James Wyatt invited many of us Realms lorelords to a design summit roughly three years ago. Sadly, the meeting was little more than a PR stunt to get us "old guard" on board with the Sundering. No such meeting has been held since, so it comes as no surprise to us that the realmslore that trickled out thus far has been sparse and underwhelming.
Preserving continuity is only a challenge for WotC because their pride prevents them from reaching out to the very individuals with the knowledge to help.
*wince* |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 22:02:07
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm pretty sure Eric Boyd scared the bejeezus out of them when a couple of days later he came up with a lore-laden, over-arching explanation for the Sundering dynamic. He's scary like that.
Be careful what you wish for, right? |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2014 : 14:25:50
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Goerge - would you want them to explore Impiltur and write novels there?
Right now Impiltur seems to me to be the perfect kingdom for a DM to homebrew, even though it has its own history. Its close enough to most stuff (in the Eastern heartlands) to be useful, yet still not as 'lore burdened' (ouch... hope I didn't just coin that awful term) as a lot of other parts of the heartlands.
And if you move it down to where Turmish used to be (IMG), its even more centralized. 
quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I'm pretty sure Eric Boyd scared the bejeezus out of them when a couple of days later he came up with a lore-laden, over-arching explanation for the Sundering dynamic. He's scary like that.
Be careful what you wish for, right?
He IS scary like that. I name something on a map... and suddenly yards of lore coming rolling forth. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Dec 2014 14:27:02 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2014 : 23:14:29
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I toyed with the idea of updating Impiltur for 4E but chose not to after realising that from my point of view the "sweet spot" for the kingdom was right up until the accession of Imbrar II. In my mind this is the perfect jumping off point for any campaign set there. Any Impiltur sourcebook penned by me would have a Current Clack section for 1374 DR with month by month events ending with the coronation. After that, it would be up for the DM to play and have fun.
Whatever is done to Impiltur in 5E concerns me not a whit. Eric Boyd and I are having a blast playing in the pre-Spellplague Realms and I think anyone can do it. In fact, you can pick most any era of the Realms and set a campaign in it, rules be damned. I would happily play a pre ToT campaign using 3E rules, just as I would play a game set post-Spellplague using 2E rules. The Realms and the stories it contains always transcends the mechanics IMO.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2014 : 02:06:35
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| Somewhere along the line, someone got really defensive about Realmslore gurus. I don't know what happenstance caused it, but there is a distinct distrust of the circle. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2014 : 08:20:00
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People who want to impose their wonky vision on all of our Realms will get resentful with people who put a high value on consistency and depth... or just hold up a torch and point out that stupid stories are stupid.
Also: this is beautiful.
quote:
Eric Boyd and I are having a blast playing in the pre-Spellplague Realms and I think anyone can do it. In fact, you can pick most any era of the Realms and set a campaign in it, rules be damned. I would happily play a pre ToT campaign using 3E rules, just as I would play a game set post-Spellplague using 2E rules. The Realms and the stories it contains always transcends the mechanics IMO.
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 23 Dec 2014 08:22:02 |
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Chris Perkins Realms interview at Den of the Geek
