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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2019 :  19:18:57  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Using the power of pdf searching I found a rather strange mention of the Moonshaes in Dragon 124.

quote:
Laeral states that one skyship of this
type carried her sisters . the ranger Dove
and the bard Storm Silverhand . and
herself from the doomed city of Myth
Drannor when they were infants, dropping
them on the Moonshae Isles before
scudding on westwards over the trackless
great sea. The ship, the Vulathor
Ravoenen, may yet survive



So first thing is, a flying ship from Myth Drannor, possibly a spelljammer (given the intervention of the Monarch Mordent in the Fall of Myth Drannor).
Second is Laeral and her sisters dropped onto the Moonshae Isles. I'm not sure how this fits in with the historical background of the Seven Sisters, but it means there may be more than a few migrations of elves into the Moonshaes over the years.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2019 :  22:49:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This one is an interesting one and involves that most fun thing of all "time travel". There has always been the anomaly of the spell "Laeral's Dancing Dweomer" being found in the spell book known as the Workbook. That spellbook is attributed to Mentor of the Seven Wizards of Myth Drannor. Of course, Myth Drannor fell before the Seven Sisters were even born.

So what that tells us is that somehow Laeral, Dove and Storm travelled back in time to the City of Song and spent time in Myth Drannor when in their adolescence/childhoods (and perhaps Alustriel - Sylune, the Simbul and Qilue are unlikely to have been so sent given their histories).

In my view, Laeral using either a time portal or the spell set out in the Arcane Age accessories went to Myth Drannor early on in her magical life to grow in magic and learn from the Seven Wizards. That's how her spell appears in the Workbook. I'm sure Elminster sent her and the Srinshee looked after her.

The issue of Dove and Storm is a little different as Dragon #124 makes it clear that they were infants when they were taken from Myth Drannor to the Moonshaes. So why were they sent to Myth Drannor? The Seven Sisters accessory tells us (at p.8) that Elminster was looking after (conveniently) Laeral, Dove and Storm after the death of their mother and abandonment by Dornal Silverhand. Clearly "something" must have occurred such that he could not look after Dove and Storm for a period of time and so he elected to send them back in time to the City of Song (or perhaps Mystra decreed it "necessary"). From Myth Drannor the two took the flying ship to the Moonshaes.

The write up of the Workbook states that Flamsterd purchased the spellbook from a band of adventurers. I would hazard that they were Harpers (the first, first group of such worthies) and took the children with them. It's no coincidence that both Dove and Storm have been some of the staunchest Harpers/Harper allies in the modern Realms. They likely took the Workbook with them and gave it to Flamsterd (who I suspect is far older than the sources allude to) who looked after the girls until it was time for them to return to their present time (i.e. after a calendar year had passed).

Am planning on passing this by Ed to see what he has to say, so stay tuned.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2019 :  01:28:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do recall a prior discussion on this, though it wasn't something I kept. I don't recall the exact details, but it had to do with apparent time travel on the part of some of the Sisters.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2019 :  08:28:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm wondering if the time gate in synnoria is involved in this because it is likewise mentioned in the cormanthyr sourcebook.

I was going to put flamsterd as imaskari because of the entry in GHoTR where the leshay form an alliance with imaskari (which I dislike for many reasons but I don't see why they can't welcome a single artificer into their realm (a nice one of course)

He could just as easily be netherese though given the crashed enclave in the waters.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2019 :  09:44:47  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I'm wondering if the time gate in synnoria is involved in this because it is likewise mentioned in the cormanthyr sourcebook.

I was going to put flamsterd as imaskari because of the entry in GHoTR where the leshay form an alliance with imaskari (which I dislike for many reasons but I don't see why they can't welcome a single artificer into their realm (a nice one of course)

He could just as easily be netherese though given the crashed enclave in the waters.



Yes, I suspect the time gate in the Moonshaes was used also.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2019 :  11:29:47  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Glad I'm on the right track there.

Also noted multiple mentions of song dragons including a few that speculate they originate in the Moonshaes. And there is a song Dragon in waterdeep that might return to the Moonshaes to find a mate, indicating she came from there and that many other song dragons are there.

I've made the moonwells part of a magical musical field designed to weaken and trap kazgoroth, mayhaps a side effect of that field is the creation of song dragons. Although are they humans that can take Dragon form or dragons that can take human form.


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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2019 :  20:41:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just to add a little more spin on this read a little earlier in that article. I don't think its a spelljammer at all.

#147;. . . In recent letters to me, the sorceress Laeral has revealed the simple principles of the skyship Vulathar Ravoenen, constructed long ago by unknown artisans in the land now known as Thay.

Also, the description of the ship is more like the Halruaan Skyships and less like a spelljamming vessel. If anything, I'd equate the ship to being similar to the ship of Captain Eartharran Neirdre of the Fair Folk of Evermeet piloted (see Grand History of the Realms page 7 the story about the aearee). I'm noting that the dragon article mentions

It is (or was) a sailing vessel #151; massive and broad of beam so that it may rest upright and intact upon reasonably level ground, but is otherwise similar to a water vessel. It partakes not of the rare or strange in its construction, but rather makes much use of the more flexible woods #151; willow and the great palm #151; so as to give and flow with the winds, and not to endlessly batter against them. It has three masts of such flexible wood, and two rigid panels that are swung down from the sides of the ship, turning on their pivots, to serve as #145;leeboard#146; keels or steering vanes. In air, as in water, these vanes prevent the ship from being driven helplessly sideways by a wind, propelling it forward as intended.

While undamaged, the vessel can never sink beneath the seas, for the same forces that hold it aloft act upon the waves about. The ship#146;s hull is studded with many plates -#151; polished tortoise-shell, I believe, although Laeral gives the impression that other substances will do #151; upon which levitate spells of unusual strength and duration have been cast.


Now look at the ship pictured in that GHotR entry. Parts of its hull do indeed look a bit like tortoise shell. It also has leeboard vanes (though that pictured one has 3 and not 2). Also, given that the article says that the maximum height reached is 3600' and that the ship is piloted via a rod of levitation and not a helm, I'd definitely steer from calling it a spelljamming vessel. Most of its descriptions match the descriptions of Halruaan Skyships from shining south. Also, that part of the dragon article that mentions Thay kind of matches this from Shining South


The ships were originally invented in far off Netheril, by the ancestors of the Halruans. The Red Wizards of Thay have claimed the credit for the invention, but Halruans know the truth.

So, what pops in my head are
A) was the Vulathor Ravoenen ship one of several used by the fey to Synnoria to traverse through the Time Gate?

B) was captain Eartharran Neirdre of Evermeet that was noted as travelling back in -31000 DR according to GHotR using the Vulathor Ravoenen or another skyship?

C) IF the answer to B was yes, then in theory that skyship is the one that crashed north of fort flame.

D) If king Zaor Moonflower is the one that sent Eartharran Neirdre into the past using the Synnoria Time Gate, is this Time Gate the entire reason that elves of Llewyrr elves came to the Moonshaes at the same time that the Vyshantaar were settling evermeet (both in -9800 DR).

E) Is there any linkage between the Moonshae Isles/Synnoria and the Creation of Evermeet and this Time Gate? We know that the Elven Sundering reached forward and backward in time, so...

F) What's all this posturing about unknown people in "what becomes Thay" making the original skyships and the people of Halruaa saying it was their Netherese ancestors. Maybe both learned it from the elves? If its using turtle shells, maybe it was actually something of the batrachi or the aearee? Was it using pieces of the artifact found beneath what becomes Thay for its empowerment?

G) Did the future King Zaor who WAS from Myth Drannor send Dove and Storm in their youth to Synnoria for some reason.






Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 14 Jan 2019 21:00:37
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2019 :  21:15:39  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never heard of this flying ship going to -31000 Dr, is it in GHoTR.

I've already linked the Moonshaes to the wondering as an unintended byproduct (rip a chunk off the land and bits get left behind).

Perhaps the tortoise shell design is used because it is the most efficient at holding flying magical enchantment.

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2019 :  02:17:01  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Never heard of this flying ship going to -31000 Dr, is it in GHoTR.

I've already linked the Moonshaes to the wondering as an unintended byproduct (rip a chunk off the land and bits get left behind).

Perhaps the tortoise shell design is used because it is the most efficient at holding flying magical enchantment.



Yeah, GHotR page 7, one of the sidebars. This one by Eric L. Boyd and its listed as -31000 DR (note, there is one misspelling in theory in that it lists King Zoar instead of King Zaor). The parts that make me believe that they went back in Time are this which is from a modern day "Loremaster Ignace Dethingeller"

From the wreckage, I managed to recover a portion of a journal apparently written by Captain Eartharran Neirdre, of the Fair Folk
of Evermeet, during a voyage of exploration down the coast from the
north during the reign of King Zoar.

Several entries in the late captain’s journal mention the Iqua-Tel’Quessir—the Elven term for the nigh-mythical creator races, and the mysteries that surround their fate. Eartharran’s notes suggest that he was hunting for a lost city whose contents might resolve some of these questions. In one entry, he notes that most of the fey had already retreated to the otherworldly realm of Faerie, and that the sarrukh were reputedly slumbering in the depths of the Mhair Jungles (a rumor to which I give little credence). He speaks with derision of humankind’s burgeoning numbers and the debased descendants of the batrachi who inhabit the darkest swamps of Faerûn, then briefly addresses the long-simmering debate among scholars as to whether dragons or an avian race rounded out the ranks of the Iqua-Tel’Quessir.


It then goes on to have an encounter with some aearee, and it describes them as a dragon/avian hybrid. The entire entry is written with a note of -31000 DR, and the captain's log entries SOUND like notes from that time. So, it would seem like King Zaor sent some elves back in time to research the time of the creator races for some reason (maybe researching avariels?) using a flying ship similar to that mentioned as used by Dove and Storm as children going to the moonshaes.

Just curious, do we know WHEN Zaor became ruler of Evermeet, and was it before Myth Drannor's fall? I'm thinking not, but IF it was, then possibly the trip to the Moonshaes might have even been WHEN the ship went into the past (which may have meant that Dove and Storm spent some of their formative years in the time of the creator races AND at the time when the world split into Abeir and Toril and the ice moon/crystal sun Zotha was destroyed by Asgorath/Asgoroth).



Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Jan 2019 02:21:13
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2019 :  12:53:14  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Zaor became king after the fall of Myth Drannor. I'm pretty sure that the -31,000 DR entry in GHotR is not set at that time but simply providing some info about that time - or more correctly, the "Creator Races".

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2019 :  20:18:40  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Changed my mind, Flamsterd's obsession with the natural world and his knowledge of gates and mythals leads me to believe he is from Myth Drannor. I vaguely recall a number of mages fled Myth Drannor before its fall so I figure he is one of them.

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TBeholder
Great Reader

2376 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2019 :  02:33:13  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Changed my mind, Flamsterd's obsession with the natural world and his knowledge of gates and mythals leads me to believe he is from Myth Drannor. I vaguely recall a number of mages fled Myth Drannor before its fall so I figure he is one of them.

That's one-note gimmick thinking.
He's from Moonshae, that's more than sufficient to explains the inclinations and interest in elven magic.
Also, Flamsterd explicitly had a Myth Drannor connection in Ed's canon: he got his hands on “The Wizards’ Workbook”. Which was penned by Mentor, who indeed lived in Myth Drannor, and even participated in creation of its mythal.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2019 :  09:33:13  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As for the Moonshaes, I'd like to know more about this legend:

"Gnarhelm is the original home of the Roaming Bear legend so commonly heard among the northmen. The legend tells
of a great bear that paces across the highlands on misty evenings, devouring whole families with a single bite. Some
versions claim that the bear can shift its shape into that of a man. Most of the tales state that the bear moves as
a ghostly apparition that cannot be killed.
"

I was thinking of using it in my campaign, but I still haven't figured out how.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2019 :  10:04:01  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm making these unique beasts into more of the earthmothers children. However I have repurposed the children of the earthmothers. They are not there to preserve the balance, they are like antibodies that eliminate unwelcome growths on the Moonshaes isles (for me the islands are alive and are the earthmothers itself - not a god, just living land).

So when the humanoids start damaging the islands (cutting down trees, burning the land) the children are called to kill off the offenders. The druids have misinterpreted these actions as preserving the balance but it's just self defence.

There is one children for each of the races. Kamerynn is to combat the elves, leviathan combat the batrachi (Although they died out long ago), kazgoroth was to combat the sarrukh (But he was twisted by the wondering and went insane), the pack kill off humans, this bear is meant to combat giants and dwarves.

I've not settled on a name for him yet, I was thinking something like Darbolv (mixing the bolg of firbolg and Dar from Dagdar to mean something like big bear.

But that's just my take on things, I've twisted it to be something different but the local populace still believes it's to do with balance etc (different but the same).

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2019 :  11:57:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I vaguely recall reading about sword dancers of Moray who are supposed to be an elite fighting unit or fighting style in Moray. Up until now I'd ignored that reference because it didn't fit with the part ffolk, part northmen culture that the sourcebooks allude to.

However I had an idea. What if the people of Moray practice a folk music type of Morris dancing using swords in place of the wooden sticks (If you aren't from England this probably won't mean anything to you). So the Moray islanders practice sword dancing as an entertainment and they are well known for their mercenaries, when they travel to foreign lands they bring their dancing with them and so get known as Sword Dancers.

Might have it be a failing bit of culture that is practiced less and less as the northmen interbreed with the ffolk more and more over the years.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2019 :  19:32:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Trying to figure out how a clan based society might work.

I think in traditional feudal societies the King awards land to nobility who in turn allow common folk to work the land (either as serfs or for a tithe).

Clans are not the same as nobles, they seem like extended families around a central family. At the moment I'm leaning towards the King owning all land and the clans laying claim to tracts of land and promising to pay a tithe (a hundredth for instance) of everything produced on that land.
Clans allow normal families to pledge loyalty to the clan, promising to obey its rules and represent it with honour, and work towards whatever tithe is agreed. In return the clan promises to protect the families from monsters, bandits, other clans, etc.

Independent families can of course claim land and pay tithe to the King and his collectors, but there is the risk that other clans may muscle in on the territory (steal livestock, crops, etc, or cause an accident).


Now on Gwynneth there is massive amounts of land so the clans control the most productive areas, while the independents get the more dangerous or lower yield lands.
On Moray land is restricted, so clans control almost all the land.

Callidyrr and Snowdown are moving towards more feudal nobility so its a different model.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6638 Posts

Posted - 19 Jan 2019 :  23:23:03  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the Moonshaes have been kingless for most of their existence so the power of the king or otherwise probably hasn't been an issue. I'd personally do some research on how the Scottish clans interacted with the Scottish kings in the Tudor period and beforehand. That might provide some insight.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2019 :  10:20:36  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I always figured that the Moonshaes isles each had their own king (or equivalent) and that became an official monarchy or monarchies with the creation of the office of High King (otherwise what would be the point of a title of "high king".

Admittedly I'm ignoring the majority of elven, dwarven, giant, and leshay rule that held sway for millennia but that's only because I'm not very familiar with elves and dwarves and giants and fey, and those kingdoms are all but vanished in the modern era and were isolated from mainland faerun so can have had no effect outside of the Moonshaes. So in this instance I can ignore the demihuman and nothing else will suffer for that ignorance.

The clan rule of Scotland is only well detailed by the time England gets involved and brings along the more familiar noble feudal system which I'm hoping to avoid as that seems more like callidyrr where you have noble lords dividing up the land and clans ruling that land for them operating as sheriff's and tax collectors and police.

I'm hoping to come up with a system just prior to the middle ages but with a king. I figure the clans are like mafia families (But nicer). However it is the king to clan relationship that is bothersome. If a king grants landed titles to someone they immediately become noble and you have the problem of inheritance and permanent ownership.

I'm trying to imagine something more fluid whereby the ownership comes purely from staking a claim to that land and providing the necessary tithe and tribute to the king. That way another clan can muscle in if he can enforce protection from the inhabitants and pay the tithe and tribute to the king. This sometimes results in tithes being paid double for the same region and two clans claiming ownership of the same land but that is costly and cannot continue for long.

Moray seems like quite a poor land but with a strong martial tradition so all tithes are likely paid in kind rather than coin.

I'm also making the king peripatetic, so he has no home of his own, and instead wanders between clan holdings and staying with them. It makes the bond between king and clan closer and makes Moray different to the other islands.

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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2019 :  10:29:26  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
(...)
There is one children for each of the races (...) this bear is meant to combat giants and dwarves.



If you think of one children for each PEOPLE, and not necessarily race, he could also be the response to the Northmen...

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I've not settled on a name for him yet, I was thinking something like Darbolv (...)



Since you mentioned "bolg", it would be DarbolG, or was the V intentional? Would it be a typo or a variation of the name?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2019 :  10:47:06  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He could be for northmen but I was imagining the children like antibodies and so one human would be indistinguishable from another (or at least that was the though process at the time).
Then I read up about grond peaksmasher and his imprisonment on Oman Isle, I took that to be a literal imprisonment and tried to work an event that would imprison grond and destroy the dwarven empire of ahrrune hidden in the underdark. So I gave the bear a special power (kamerynn charms, the pack are a swarm), the bear gets stronger and bigger every time he is struck (makes sense if he was formed in response to war between the giants and dwarves). In the final battle the bear battles grond and splits the mountain and grond falls into it. The earth shattering stomp also collapsed the cavern of ahrrunes capital and so both empires (dwarf and giant) fall apart.


As for the name, I changed my mind a few times and since fir is phonetically similar to ffolk I decided that fir means big man (ffolk meaning people) which would mean the name would be Dagfvirr or something like that. I'm slowly building up a lexicon as I got along so I will probably change my mind a few more times.


The children are not just antibodies against races of people. The Nilshai is produced as a response to rampant magic use on the Moonshaes (which humans usually cause). Whereas I think I pegged the Shadow Hunt as a counter to humans. However I recently discovered that halflings migrated to the Moonshaes a long time ago before humans so I may need to add a new one if I can find a suitably unique creature mentioned in the sourcebooks anywhere, or I'll just make one up.

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2019 :  21:41:24  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd recommend watching Rob Roy... because well its about clans with feudal lords involved, and its got cattle rustling, old fashioned loans, thievery, bastards, talk of sheep shagging, dueling, and well... its Rob Freakin' Roy... I mean, it won't give you any major insight into clans anymore than you already know, BUT at the end you can say you watched Rob Roy yet another time. Plus, it will remind you to start adding the word quim into your daily conversations.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2019 :  21:45:27  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Funnily enough I just added something about slavery inspired by Rob Roy, although I can honestly say I have never been tempted to use the q word in any conversation, polite or otherwise.

Great film

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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist

USA
11686 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2019 :  13:24:37  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Funnily enough I just added something about slavery inspired by Rob Roy, although I can honestly say I have never been tempted to use the q word in any conversation, polite or otherwise.

Great film



Lol, that's the only movie I've ever heard the term in, and it was like they were using it left and right. Afterwards I had to look it up to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting. There were actually several terms in that movie I picked up, but that's the only glaring one coming to mind.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2019 :  14:20:22  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Been looking around for fanmade npcs (I like to work in other people's stuff as a homage to their efforts). Thus far I can find only one npc - Stradidar MacFinian.

I'm tempted to come up with an origin for rangers as an organisation maybe deriving from the ffolk word for finding.
It always struck me as odd that there is a special type of profession that is prevalent all across the Sword Coast north, all with similar skill sets.
So have a single organisation of origin that formed that profession and then it can spread to other lands later (probably when the bards of the Moonshaes spread to the Sword Coast and may have helped recreate the Harper's.

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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2019 :  11:13:07  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I'm tempted to come up with an origin for rangers as an organisation (...)
It always struck me as odd that there is a special type of profession that is prevalent all across the Sword Coast north, all with similar skill sets.
So have a single organisation of origin that formed that profession and then it can spread to other lands later
(...)


Not Moonshaes-related, but IIRC the OGB says that most of the "modern" ranger lore was collected in Myth Drannor, by the Guild of Naturalists (the owner of the Hall of the Beast-Tamers).

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2019 :  11:27:13  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good find.

I'm guessing they catalogued the wood craft of elves and humans and other races.

That knowledge obviously dispersed to the dalelands through myth drannor successors (semberholme and elven court).

Myth Drannor however falls in 714 DR. And the Harper's as an organisation is destroyed (later rebuilt and destroyed and rebuilt).

So the question is how does that knowledge proliferate to the Sword Coast north. There is a connection between myth drannor and silverymoon and many people fled there, but the north was overrun a century later by the hordes of hellgate keep and then orcs.

Now there is a college in silverymoon named after a student of a great bard in the Moonshaes Isles. In fact there are many colleges throughout the Sword Coast north founded by students of a great bard in the Moonshaes.

I'm proposing that sometime around 900 DR there is a migration from the Moonshaes Isles that includes bards and woodsmen. These go on to form the ranks of the second incarnation of the Harper's. At that time woodsmen would be in great demand as the orcs and demons overrun the north and make it very unsafe.

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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1600 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2019 :  09:21:00  Show Profile Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think maybe a combination of the two would work. The OGB says that the the Naturalist's Guild studies on "the natural habits and pursuits of wild creatures" (...) "resulted in much of what is now ranger lore".

It means that, either if they were part of the 1st Harpers' incarnation or not (the reference says nothing about it), their knowledge somehow survived the fall of the city. On the other hand, it says "much of it", so at least a small part of the modern knowledge was gained through other influences, which may include the Moonshaes.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2019 :  10:35:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've added in a the ruin of caer moray, burned down regularly in the first few centuries of Morays existence and eventually abandoned to ruin as a costly mistake.
I've got rumours of a treasure horde hidden in the ruins (false as the treasury was emptied during civil strife prior to the castle being burned for the last time). The royal regalia is supposedly hidden in the ruins (true - the kings son tried to abscond with it while the castle was burning and became trapped in a tunnel at in one of the wells).
Also the ruin is supposed to be haunted as people can here haunting wails on certain nights (false - a weredog of the greystone trading company occasionally meets with his contacts from the heralds of the high king here and his howls are meant to scare away others).

Also adding a few mercenary companies here as moray's economy relies upon mercenaries. I'm making one of them the Morayan Reavers in homage to something in the Candlekeep Compendium.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2019 :  21:59:59  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Randomly read on Twitter in an old post ed made about the northmen that a decade of cold winters and short growing seasons caused the northmen to increase their raiding.

Looked on the history and in 1335 is a bleak winter that strikes the north. In 1324 the northmen occupy a large part of Moray and king Dagdar has to request help from Cordell to oust them the following year.

So 1324 to 1335 is a decade of harsh winters that see the northmen nearly starve and sees them raid across the Moonshaes. This increases the ffolk-northmen tension in preparation for kazgoroth coming.

Now I don't do god interference but I wonder if there is anyway that an evil leshay could manipulate the weather to be a lot colder.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6350 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2019 :  20:46:41  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Found a new dragon that may have lived on the Moonshae Isles

Angkarasce the Mighty

Angkarasce was a white dragon whose sorcery and wealth were unmatched in the early days of human settlement of the Sword Coast, and who wore a cloak of splendid legends because of it. He is long dead, consumed by his own sorceries as he sought to enspell himself into immortality.


Angkarasce's treasure hoard was discovered by Hoondarrh, who got in a fight with Naroun the Ghost (a great white wyrm) somewhere along the sword coast when an orc horde poured down out of the mountains around 600 DR.
For two days the dragons fought in the air, before Naroun crashed into a mountain and Hoondarrh collapsed onto a nearby ridge. An avalanche rolled Hoondarrh down into a bowl shaped valley and uncovered Angkarasce's hoard in a long buried cavern.

Most importantly the cavern was now open to the howling storm winds.



So Angkarasce was a white dragon and liable to lair somewhere cold. Hoondarrh was a red dragon and seemed to be plundering the northern sword coast when he encountered Naroun (also a white dragon). So somewhere not to cold for a red dragon to venture and not too warm for a white dragon to live, and somewhere within 2 days flight of the sword coast with mountains and valleys that no one had yet discovered.
Yes it could be any island but there are a lot of mountains in the Moonshae Isles and it is raked by savage arctic winds from the north.

Now crucially Angkarasce was slain, consumed by his magic. Doesn't mean he (or she) is completely gone. More importantly, could have been alive around the time the northmen and ffolk arrived on the islands.

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