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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 15:21:00
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Where can i find information or something resembling a write-up for this location of the Moonsea and it's dark/evil fey inhabitants?
I've looked into the 2E The Moonsea, the 3E Mysteries of the Moonsea, various campaign settings (1E, 2E, 3E) and other random places (like Ruins of Adventure and the Dungeon 170 FR adventure "Monument of the Ancients" by the James brothers) to no avail.
Thanks!
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 18:03:50
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| The Quivering Forest doesn't get much of a mention until 4th edition. FRC1 mentions elves living in it but the next big chunk of lore on it comes in Monument of the Ancients and then, in one of the Adventurer's League modules Tales Trees Tell, PCs can go inside but there's a disappointing lack of lore in there too. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 18:24:18
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| You've already looked everywhere I can think of. It's mentioned (barely) in Phlan During the Tyranny of Dragons but that's all I've got at the moment. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 21:51:05
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Looking at the same sources you have already listed, the only thing I could think of for the Quivering Forest is that it was originally intended as a bulwark of defense by the Elven people to stave off attack from the area of Thar.
The lands now inhabited by Zhentil Keep and such were once forested lands held by the elves...a regenerating forest would have made for a very strong defense.
Markustay and I even talked about how the Quivering Forest may be a dreaded place for humanoids who tell stories of falling asleep in the woods and waking up with roots and such already growing over you so that you can't escape.
I've placed Assassin Vines (attuned to only killing non-elven blooded and non-fey individuals), Choke Creepers, Forester's Bane plants, Hangman Trees, Kampfult (which though they normally live in dungeons or underground, are ideal for caves seen as "safe" by humanoids in the northern verges of the Quivering Forests hillier areas) Mandragoras, Mantraps, Mud-Men (along the river banks; and more to do with the former fouling of the river), Obliviax (memory moss), Treants (usually only young ones that spawn occasionally when created by a particularly nasty critter), Algoids (a sentient and psionic water-fungus humanoid that controls trees that spawn near the Stojanow to fight humanoids), Wolf-in-sheep's-clothing, Phycomids, Cifal (masses of insects brought together by the forest to fight humanoids), Giant Sundew Plants, Vortexes (Vortexi? lol...meaning the living ones that are 2+2 Hit Dice that suddenly spawn in the wooded clearings and crush the life from orcs and such), Yellow Musk Creepers (which of course cause Yellow Musk Zombies!), Quickwood Trees (that are decidedly NOT quick, and usually don't attack but spy on passersby and relay information to the little people that I'll mention in a bit) AND the most potent defense of the Quivering Forest: Barkburrs (nasty animated plants that can transform individuals into trees, badgers, giant weasels, treants (yikes!) and even Druids to protect the forest!)
Then of course I have the "little people" which live in the Quivering Forest: Atomie, Buckawn, Brownies, Grigs, Pixies, Sprites, Quicklings (everyone loves Quicklings!) a family of Great Owls, AND a family of Faerie Dragons that are ultra reclusive and usually only are "seen" in the shape of something else...but exceedingly protective of the other little people in the forest; though none of the Fey sorts are usually encountered directly because to me such individuals should be "unseen" at all times unless someone is exceedingly good natured and loves the forest.
That doesn't even include the "normal" animals that live in the forest...though I should note all the "monsters" I've placed there are not in huge numbers all the time, but slowly begin to appear the more the wood is threatened; almost like the body producing anti-bodies to keep out certain viruses.  Did I mention Barkburrs? 
Also, because I have small people living there; I've also added other creatures that are bad that would be drawn there that would have inherent immunity to most of the plant monsters: Yeth Hounds (which love to eat small fey creatures and live in the hills away from the forest in the north but are often in the northern verges hunting at night), Leucrotta that hunt the eastern verges (from Thar), Mimics which live in underground burrows and hunt at night (usually laying beside game trails as "rocks"; but will also attack humanoids or humans that happen to be using those same trails), Wil-o-the-wisps and such as that.
My own Quivering Forest is literally alive and dangerous...even if burned to the ground (which I think has happened in the past) it grows back quickly because the roots themselves would have to be burned away in the earth to prevent its magical nature from re-growing the forest...and did I mention Barkburrs?  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 23:32:48
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| Hmmmm, sounds like a perfect place for a deviant sect of followers of "Relkath of the Infinite Branches" who was later subsumed by Rillifane Rallathil. Perhaps these followers have taken up a habit of transforming invaders into plant defenders of the forest (or perhaps they feed the forest on the blood of such beings). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2014 : 23:46:25
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| I can tell you that there are twig blights, pixies, and a few displacer beasts as well as Greenhall (a community of about 150 elves) and a green hag called Jeny Greenteeth (who seems to be in charge of the dark fey) living in the Forest in 1489 DR. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 16 Nov 2014 23:48:27 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 01:15:08
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Jeny? What is it with using names/words that sound just like real-world names/words?
Anyway, my main point in replying is to hopefully cause someone else to veer off on the humorous mental journey I took after misreading "Relkath of the Infinite Breeches"
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 15:43:24
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She used to be known as 'Jeny on The Blarck' - The Blarck being a (more-so then usual) disreputable festhall in Zhentil Keep, owned by Blarck Elfswatter, a half-ogre of ill temper but above-average intelligence. It is known for catering to 'unusual tastes'.
After she disgraced herself (no easy thing to do at The Blarck), she attempted a short-lived stage career, singing and acting in tawdry Sembian musicals. She had some short-lived success, but then critics began referring to her as 'lady largebottom', and she withdrew into her dark heritage and embraced her true nature. Fleeing north into the Quivering Forest, she resides there to this day, killing defenseless small animals with just the sound of her screeching voice, and luring young men to their doom with her illusuions, and promises of becoming her 'Papi'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2014 16:42:02 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 16:04:43
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  Ow. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 16:44:41
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And now you know the kind of games I run.
By way of apology, I did learn the ropes running Greyhawk.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2014 16:44:58 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 20:42:00
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That hurts Markustay.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2014 : 21:06:00
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| Yea, Greyhawk makes sense. That place is built partly of froot loops. |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2014 : 09:24:38
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Seems like the greatest source of info on the forest is the PoR Journal, in it it's said:
- that the forest was created by the elves with it's magical aided growth;
- that in 1023 DR the inhabitants of the forest killed the last Valjevo prince;
- that the Quivering forest was burnt to the ground "in a massive fire that dominated the sky for a month" (timeline clues are vague and there are some discrepancies with GHotR but i think this happens in 1306 DR with the "Dragon Run")
The last point is the most interesting to me because it can be seen as the turning point from "forest inhabited by insular elves" to "forest inhabited by dark murderous fey". I say this because it's the only recorded "canon" instance of the Quivering Forest being destroyed and this means that even if the forest can grow back in time, the inhabitants either fled or were trapped inside and died in the fire so any elven presence in the forest was gone for good after 1306 DR. Now, with a forest growing fast back to it's original shape i can see enterprising dark fey gating in (or returning from dimensional hidey holes after the fire or emerging from subterranean passages) and setting up shop in a forest scarred by tragedy in a land constantly flooded in sorrow, desperation, fear and bloodbath [don't know why but i imagine some fey creatures, both seelie and unseelie, attracted by high concenctrations of this or that emotion].
This also means that the dark fey were free to plant everywhere in the forest their pet killer vegetables in places were the elves probably used treants or other less murderous green guardians, and this leads to a Quivering Forest full of spriggans, redcaps, unseelie fey, any type of evil plant life and the like.
Another interesting piece of the puzzle is the high fertility of the soil of the Stojanow River banks (cleared of the forest i suppose, since it wouldn't have much sense for the elves to have the forest stop well before the Stojanow: leaving some space free for the humans of Old/Archaic Phlan at the mouth of the river sure, leaving more empty space just because no) that stopped after the super powerful plant rust plague around 900 DR. Now, if my supposition about the iper-productive fields is true and if the plant rust that ravaged them was magical/supernatural in origin, then we can theorize that the magic of the Quivering Forest makes all plant life grow, meaning that the humans of Old/Archaic Phlan were reaping the benefits of the forest enchantment for their harvests until another magical/supernatural force put a stop to that and left the area barren (no crops AND no forest claiming it). I like it because it's something i can see elves doing ("Damn the apes using OUR magic to grow and multiply! We have to put a stop to that!" [casts magic rust plague] "Uh oh ... our forest isn't reclaiming the barren lands ... well at least the apes are suffering now ...") and then it means that if you plant an assassin vine in the Quivering Forest it will benefit from the same super speedy growth of the trees, giving raise to the vegetarian nightmare of a forest full of evil green things in a short time.
Since the plague happened in conjunction with the disappearance of the goodly mage of Sorcerer's Island i can see the focus/capstone of the "no growth" plague being in the ruins on the island and probably linked to the Stojanow River waters (thus only the human fields would be impacted and not all the Quivering Forest). This can even be used to justify the fact there is a coastal trade road passing through Phlan, something i don't think the elves would have allowed (Phlan was founded by people coming on boats and was on the Moonsea so no matter how they pleaded i don't see the humans convincing the elves to leave even more land open for them after that granted for the city to be built, especially since the dwarves used the river to trade and had no need themselves for a trade road, so it was elven interest VS human interest and we know how these things usually go with the pointy eared folks): after the Stojanow River conveyed the plague to the fields it spread to more land at the mouth of the river, stripping the land there of it's magically assisted growth and making possible the construction of a trade road.
What do you think of the above rambling ideas?
Note: i've purposefully left out the 4E information because i'm interested in the area up to the 1370s DR so it's not really relevant to me what canon happenings may be after that time, i hope this doesn't offend anyone. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2014 : 09:47:01
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I had wondered about the Quivering Forest and its purpose.
I cant remember if i read it or made it up but i have in my notes that the quivering forest was created by the elves around the time of the founding of Phlan (367 DR).
Supposedly it was created to signify the cooperation of humans and elves in the Moonsea region which was being settled by humans quickly following the gradual clearing of the northern parts of the forest.
Now one might wonder why elves would cooperate with humans who were clearing the forest, and the only reason i can find is that the elves were having repeated trouble with orcs and ogres in the northern parts of Cormanthor and the Beastlands which was a section of forest along the northwestern arm of the Moonsea.
Humans would provide a buffer to that and so the forest could be viewed as a mark of respect and secure them as allies against the orcs.
However one of Eds articles on Thar mentioned Embrurshaille and her efforts to improve herself which went horribly wrong and resulted in the creation of Thar (which was once nice fertile land inhabited by several kingdoms - Barze, Horreb, etc).
With a bit of extrapolation i came up with a date for the beginning of Thar somewhere between -339 and -205 (i chose -280 or -220 because of the name of the years).
Thar would have gradually expanded over the next 500 years getting larger and larger and filled with more and more orcs and ogres.
So the Quivering Forest with its ability to regenerate fully in one day may well have been used as a buffer against the expansion of Thar (it is positioned just at the right point to block Thar's desolation from crossing the River Stojanov and then spreading on to Cormanthor.
That elves chose to live there may have been incidental or they may have been garrisoned there as protectors.
The forest keeps Thar from overwhelming the Moonsea which means the humans have land to live in and act as a buffer against the orcs and ogres from Thar. Clever elves.
Unfortunately the humans stopped cooperating with the elves, and the dragon flights destroyed all the elves in the quivering forest so the plan didnt last for long.
Oh and i dont think there is any need to state you wont be including 4e stuff, thats pretty much the default. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2014 : 14:12:13
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| I do vaguely recall something about magical growth but I can't remember for sure. However, in Monument of the Ancients, it is mentioned that Phlan was supposed to be a Myth Drannan trading post for the dwarves of the Dragonspine Mountains. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 20 Nov 2014 : 16:52:40
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I'm sure strong magic went into the forest but not enough to let it regrow in a single day.
From the Pool of Radaince Journal: "A history of Phlan and the Moonsea Reaches",by Jeff Grubb.
367 DR-
At this time, the elves planted the Quivering Forest north of the city. This copse was mildly enchanted, hastening the growing season to produce a great woods in the span of a human generation. Though the woods have been felled on a number of occasions, it has always returned to its original form, becoming a light woods within two years, and a deep shadow-filled forest by the end of a man's life.
(I changed my wording to reflect 'mildly enchanted') |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you dont want to move to the new Realms, that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with either you or the old Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches wont fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Edited by - Bakra on 21 Nov 2014 13:27:02 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2014 : 15:21:06
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Quivering Forest Notes
367 DR Year of Shying Eyes: At this time, the elves planted the Quivering Forest north of the city. This copse was mildly enchanted, hastening the growing season to produce a great woods in the span of a human generation. Though the woods have been felled on a number of occasions, it has always returned to its original form, becoming a light woods within two years, and a deep shadow-filled forest by the end of a man's life. And It was at this time that the fey planted the Quivering Forest north of the city; the copse enchanted to grow the great wood in the span of a human generation. (The elves and all sorts of fey pooled their resources together and created the forest? Or is this one of those odd things where the writers lump elves into the fey catergory?)
1023 DR Year of the Pirates Trove: Dark shadows lurked between the massive trunks of the trees in the Quivering Forest. An attempt to clear a path through that growth in 1023 DR resulted in the death of the last surviving Great Prince of the Valjevo family.
1306 DR Year of Thunder: The Dragon Run passage: Then disaster struck. Raiders from the north, aided by dragons and other dangerous creatures, poured down of the northlands. The Quivering Forest was burned in a massive fire that dominated the sky for a month.
1344 DR Year of Moonfall: A mass migration of elves begins; this is known as The Retreat. (This is probably when the dark fey start gaining a foothold in the forest.)
1380 DR Year of the Blazing Hand: Phlan forges an alliance with the fey (some say dark fey) of the Quivering Forest. Jeny Greenteeth was one of the fey who entered into the original pact.
1383 DR Year of the Vindicated Warrior: Shadowbane War-- Netherese raze Zhentil Keep and the Citadel of the Raven. The fey of the Quivering Forest help prevent Phlan from being destroyed.
1456 DR Year of the Mithral Hammer: Lord Talaric Daoran goes missing after sending loggers into the Quivering Forest.
1489 DR Year of the Warrior Princess(?): DDEX1-8 Tales Trees Tell: play the adventure and inform me how it ends. 
Little nuggets of information:
A feycrossroad exists in the forest.
The dark fey do not have total control of the forest. A passage suggest elven rangers curtail some of the evil creatures that dwell there.
Phlanities don't travel into the forest and they fear flying over it too.
Morcant Burl (a purplish hardwood) and safflowers (used as a cooking oil) grow only in the Quivering Forest. These items can be obtained by members of the Emerald Enclave who trade with elves.
Resources:
Monument of the Ancients Dungeon #170, The Grand History of the Realms, Ruins of Adventure 1st edition, Defiance in Phlan, Shadows of the Moonsea, Tales Trees Tell, and A History of Phlan and the Moonsea Reaches by Jeff Grubbs.
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you dont want to move to the new Realms, that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with either you or the old Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches wont fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Edited by - Bakra on 21 Nov 2014 15:23:59 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2014 : 18:23:18
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As has been noted in other threads, it's unlikely in the extreme that the elven Retreat started in 1344 DR. It was virtually complete by then. 1344 is undoubtedly when even the most oblivious of human neighbors realized that the elves were vanishing, because the number of men being slain for penetrating too far into the Elven Wood was dropping. I remember reading somewhere in the Waterdeep material that the elves who abandoned Aelinthaldaar left for Evermeet. After that, I think the Coronal's decision to open Myth Drannor to non-elven races "kicked it up a notch." We know, after all, that entire families predicted the decline of elves under the inexorable (and now approved by corrupted/insane elven rulers) advance of humans and other filthy beasts, and I think they were withdrawing from Faerūn in more significant numbers even back then.
I like the theory that the elves withdrew from the Quivering Forest during the most dramatic burning of the forest (1306?) and didn't return when it regrew... perhaps because they'd lost their will to fight for it, or perhaps because the dark fey beat them to it and ousting them wasn't an option for whatever reason. I suspect that the wood's strongest elven defenders were killed by the raiders and dragons; following their deaths the elves were demoralized sufficiently to make reclaiming the forest unfeasible.
I haven't read the sources that are being cited; just thinking the above makes sense to me. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 00:43:02
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
As has been noted in other threads, it's unlikely in the extreme that the elven Retreat started in 1344 DR.
I haven't read the sources that are being cited; just thinking the above makes sense to me.
On page 139 in The Grand History of the Realms (2007) states, "1344 DR...The Retreat: After years of thought and meditation, the leaders of the elf nations agree to withdrawal from the increasing human controlled lands of mainland Faerun..."
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I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you dont want to move to the new Realms, that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with either you or the old Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches wont fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Edited by - Bakra on 22 Nov 2014 00:46:04 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 02:22:03
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And a few years later they're refounding Myth Drannor and one or two cities in old Miyeritar. And it's not just a couple of isolated elven adventurers... it's thousands of elves.
It might conceivably have been the intent, in 1e, for the outsider perception of elven disappearance from Faerūn to become "official" in 1344. But it had already been going on, unofficially, for centuries.
Plus, a couple of things happened to basically invalidate the Retreat, beginning in 2e/1358. 1: someone probably realized that removing elves from Faerūn would reduce their appeal as player characters. 2: authors wanted to write about elves, and not just isolated elven adventurers but kingdoms too.
So regardless of what GHotR or any other source says... the elves were retreating from Faerūn long before 1344, and they were actually returning by that time or very soon after that time.
1344 is just when humanity as a whole finally noticed that the elves were disappearing. Just in time for them to start reappearing. So that's what the GHotR and the other sources must be reflecting... human perception. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 22 Nov 2014 02:23:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 14:00:59
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| I agree with xaeyruudh. Elves had been leaving Faerūn for year -- the decision in 1344 was more of an official "okay, let's do this" rather than the start of it. Some of the more isolated communities may have indeed started their retreat in 1344, but a lot of other elven communities had been doing it for a while. |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 14:05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
And a few years later they're refounding Myth Drannor and one or two cities in old Miyeritar. And it's not just a couple of isolated elven adventurers... it's thousands of elves.
It might conceivably have been the intent, in 1e, for the outsider perception of elven disappearance from Faerūn to become "official" in 1344. But it had already been going on, unofficially, for centuries.
Plus, a couple of things happened to basically invalidate the Retreat, beginning in 2e/1358. 1: someone probably realized that removing elves from Faerūn would reduce their appeal as player characters. 2: authors wanted to write about elves, and not just isolated elven adventurers but kingdoms too.
So regardless of what GHotR or any other source says... the elves were retreating from Faerūn long before 1344, and they were actually returning by that time or very soon after that time.
1344 is just when humanity as a whole finally noticed that the elves were disappearing. Just in time for them to start reappearing. So that's what the GHotR and the other sources must be reflecting... human perception.
No, it wasn't a 'few years later'....decades later yes. Also, new lore trumps old lore that has always been the official stance. The mass migration of elves began in earnest in 1344 DR. If you want wish to discuss this event known as the Retreat further, then take it to one of those other scroll you mentioned earlier. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you dont want to move to the new Realms, that doesnt mean theres anything wrong with either you or the old Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches wont fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 17:15:16
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Did this turn into a "mine is bigger than yours" thing?
Lets simply look at things this way: open to interpretation, as always.
As for the Quivering Forest itself, depending on when you are playing it can be either a "magical" forest or a downright scary place to be...again, open to interpretation. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 18:00:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Did this turn into a "mine is bigger than yours" thing?
Lets simply look at things this way: open to interpretation, as always.
As for the Quivering Forest itself, depending on when you are playing it can be either a "magical" forest or a downright scary place to be...again, open to interpretation.
1. Ugh, definitely not.
2. Open to interpretation, yes. Elves beginning something in 1344 and then changing their minds less than 30 years later (3e FRCS, pg 14: the Retreat "seems" to be over, spoken by an elf, in or before 1372) is utterly inconsistent with the nature of elves, so we need an interpretation that makes some sense.
That's all I was trying to advocate. And it wasn't meant to drag us away from the topic, but it is a separate issue. My bad. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 20:06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Did this turn into a "mine is bigger than yours" thing?
Lets simply look at things this way: open to interpretation, as always.
As for the Quivering Forest itself, depending on when you are playing it can be either a "magical" forest or a downright scary place to be...again, open to interpretation.
1. Ugh, definitely not.
2. Open to interpretation, yes. Elves beginning something in 1344 and then changing their minds less than 30 years later (3e FRCS, pg 14: the Retreat "seems" to be over, spoken by an elf, in or before 1372) is utterly inconsistent with the nature of elves, so we need an interpretation that makes some sense.
That's all I was trying to advocate. And it wasn't meant to drag us away from the topic, but it is a separate issue. My bad.
I'm totally with you...the retreat is still "for real" in my games...because I play AD&D for my home game and usually well before the Time of Troubles might have happened...
That is why I said open to interpretation...no need for anyone to shut anyone else down on ideas that are perfectly plausible like your idea certainly is.
Elves don't live in my Quivering Forest though...nor have they ever since it was last burned to the ground.
I wasn't kidding about the Barkburr's by the way...they are a perfect explanation of why the Quivering Forest remains and regrows so very quickly too: even an Orc Horde could be turned into a mass of trees if they couldn't deal with the ambushing attacks of the Barkburr! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2014 : 20:11:48
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I figure Elves are like the French...
They're always retreating. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2014 : 14:43:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Did this turn into a "mine is bigger than yours" thing?
Lets simply look at things this way: open to interpretation, as always.
As for the Quivering Forest itself, depending on when you are playing it can be either a "magical" forest or a downright scary place to be...again, open to interpretation.
1. Ugh, definitely not.
2. Open to interpretation, yes. Elves beginning something in 1344 and then changing their minds less than 30 years later (3e FRCS, pg 14: the Retreat "seems" to be over, spoken by an elf, in or before 1372) is utterly inconsistent with the nature of elves, so we need an interpretation that makes some sense.
That's all I was trying to advocate. And it wasn't meant to drag us away from the topic, but it is a separate issue. My bad.
I'm totally with you...the retreat is still "for real" in my games...because I play AD&D for my home game and usually well before the Time of Troubles might have happened...
That is why I said open to interpretation...no need for anyone to shut anyone else down on ideas that are perfectly plausible like your idea certainly is.
Elves don't live in my Quivering Forest though...nor have they ever since it was last burned to the ground.
I wasn't kidding about the Barkburr's by the way...they are a perfect explanation of why the Quivering Forest remains and regrows so very quickly too: even an Orc Horde could be turned into a mass of trees if they couldn't deal with the ambushing attacks of the Barkburr!
You intrigued me with the barkburr (or its darker cousin the direburr). I had to go look them up in the 1st edition MM II. I gotta say they are very interesting, being able to turn people into animals (giant weasels and badgers) or treants or just ordinary trees. The most rare form is those that turn into druids. What I find interesting is that they say they turn people into druids, but it doesn't specify a race (I guess because in 1st edition, druids were human). Personally, I'd put another spin on this. I'd have any being that is turned into a druid either be a volodni OR dryad OR have the woodling template. In addition, I'd parse up the options for what happens after a creature lignifies as follows:
01-50 ordinary tree (20% chance of flowering fruit, 50% chance of evergreen, 25% chance of other non-rare wood, 5% chance of rare wood)
51-70 animal of corresponding size (i.e. a large humanoid may be transformed into a large animal). Animals will be of normal woodland stock which can defend the woodland with similar hit dice to the lignified being (boars, dire weasels, badgers, bears, panthers, deer, etc...)
70-75 is transformed into a "needle folk", forgets its past life, and decides it must protect this woodland
76-80 becomes a wood woad, forgets its past life, and decides it must protect this woodland
81-85 becomes a treant, forgets its past life, and decides it must protect this woodland
86-90 becomes a normal tree as mentioned above, but this tree transforms into a dryad,forgets its past life, and decides it must protect this woodland
91-94 acquires the woodling template, but recalls its past life and class, and decides it must protect this woodland. As a result, it retains any prior class levels, but suffers a loss of 3 class levels.
95-100 reroll the dice. This will choose the new form, but the person retains much of their lost memories. If they do not become a regular tree, they become a classed version of the aforementioned treant/dryad/volodni/woodling/wood woad/needlefolk. They trade in any class levels they possessed for levels of druid, but at a 1 to 2 ratio (i.e. a 6th lvl fighter becomes a 3rd lvl druid). In addition, this transformation provides a +4 bonus to wisdom, but a -4 penalty to charisma.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2014 : 14:44:18
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| Oh, and this idea makes me wonder if barkburrs/direburrs were some of the original fey creator races (or if they were a creation of said race). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2014 : 16:33:28
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You could have them become one of those gawd-awful 'wooden druids' from the Complete Book of druids (IIRC).
The barkskin wasn't so bad, but that third arm really jumped the shark.
EDIT: On the other hand, combining them with your idea of volodni might work - it would almost be like a 'larval stage'.
EDIT2 Just re-read that entry in that book - I probably haven't read it since my 1st time through it (the lack of illustration probably). Those things don't make a lot of sense, but they are interesting. A bit OP'd, but they can be fixed. Not sure how most treants or elves would feel about them - it seems pretty evil to turn a creature against their will. On the other hand, I could see Sylvan (Wood) Elves creating 'burr gunnes' to shoot these things at people on-purpose. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Nov 2014 16:46:20 |
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Quivering Forest
