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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 04:23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Here is Xal's logic in action:
* Monsters from the Stonelands attack Cormyr.
* Cormyr responds by using Purple Dragons and War Wizards to fight back the invaders.
- Because Cormyr was attacked, Cormyr now has the right to invade the Stonelands.
* Cormyr launches a massive assault against the Stonelands. They begin to butcher every non-human creature there in a genocidal massacre.
- Because of Cormyr's actions, refugees flee the Stonelands. They seek refuge in the Dales.
- An influential priest of Ilmater persuades Dalelanders that Cormyr is in the wrong, and that it is the right thing to do to protect the refugees fleeing Cormyrian aggression.
- Because the Dales now aid Cormyr's enemy, and Cormyr's enemy is evil, the Dalelands are now also evil.
* Cormyr invades the Dalelands to not only exterminate the refugees that escaped the Stonelands, but to begin killing Dalelanders as well.
* Cormyr begins to execute every male that they encounter, every woman over or under child bearing age, and every woman who can breed is captured.
- The women who can breed are placed into prison camps where they are turned into breeders for their crimes. They are raped by Purple Dragons, and once their children are born they are taken from them and sent back to Cormyr to live with Purple Dragon loyalist families. Those future children are then raised to serve as either future War Wizards or future Purple Dragons.
* Horrified by Cormyr's actions, most of the rest of the Realms decides to offer support to the Dalelands. This makes them the enemy of Cormyr, and individuals who have sided with evil. This justifies Cormyr doing the same thing to them as they did in the Stonelands and in the Dales.
- Cue a war that spans the entire Realms, as Cormyr expands its territory by exterminating local populations, and forcing their women into a breeding program like animals so they can continue to grow their army.
- In the end, Cormyr wins and all regard Cormyr as a heroic and good savior of the Realms which has vanquished evil.
heck it worked fantastic with the Romans, in the end the Romans won out. and we can thank our modern civilization to them.
you dont get this, matters of good and evil are not nice. war is not nice. but it has to be done. in fighting there is no gray, its as black as white as it gets, on the side of life or on the side of death.
if Cormyr can not control its territory they ought to go there and install order and rule of law. either the Stonelanders accept Cormyr law or fight and die.
and its a complete non-sequitar. (does not follow in latin, it is applied a fallacy applied to when logic was not used because the steps taken do not follow via logic.)
the fact that the Stonelands are not good does not mean there is an interest in slaying its citizens, it does mean that Cormyr ought to occupy that area or demand retribution and a solution from Stonelands.
even if the Stonelands do become part of the Cormyr Republic it does not mean that the Stonelanders ought to be given rights as full citizens. but follow what the Romans did, they lasted for 1000 years pretty well.
im not too sure that making them into breeders is a good idea, perhaps exiling them and taking thier lands is the best idea. since it allows for more populace and is a better way to get retribution. maybe selling them as slaves to anyone but Thay. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 04:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
some people deserve to die. thats it
True. Some individuals should be eliminated, not as punishment or vengeance because murder is pathetically inadequate to both, but to protect the rest of our society from those individuals. There is no generalization that can be made regarding these individuals. They come from different races, different places, different times. They're present in pretty much every society, but they each look a little different. So while this statement is marginally true, your point is still flawed.
There is no moral cowardice in being sure of someone's nature and intent before deciding whether to kill them. In contrast, drawing conclusions about someone based on the color of their skin is cowardly, among other unflattering things.
quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
i assume none of you had ever faced the reality of war or had to kill someone in self defense or make a primitive strike.
They say to 'assume' makes an ass out of u.
I haven't personally been involved in war, but some of my friends and relatives have, and I'm confident that some people on this board have been as well. You might call it an assumption on my part, but my odds of being correct are much better than yours.
I have, however, been mugged at gunpoint. I've also had a guy show up at my door with a knife and two friends, pissed off because his girlfriend (my ex-) wouldn't stop talking about what a great guy I was. (True story; I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried.)
People react differently to war and brushes with Death. Again you have no basis for making generalizations. Also, I'm almost certain you meant 'pre-emptive' instead of 'primitive' strike.
quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
i would laugh at your deaths and probably make jokes at the funeral to send a message across to all else that might be tempted to go the same path.
So your strategy, for making a point and getting people to agree with you, is to make fun of someone at their funeral? How is this smart? Oh, I get it... your high opinion of your own intelligence and disdain for everything anyone else says is a joke, to send a message. Ha ha.
Now that I've joined the crowd in feeding the troll, I can say from experience that it's kinda anti-climactic. Disappointing. I feel dirty. Worrying that I might get warts. 0/10, would not do again. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 04:32:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Also, seeing genocide (of the ''evil'', whatever that means when applied to people who happen to be citizens of a warring country) being described as necessary is quite disturbing -especially when talking about real world-. So is seeing people who -in given situations- are not willing to kill civilians or who are willing to spare lives (which, I guess, covers a big number of individuals), being called ''cowards'' and ''weak souls''.
Do not forget the fact that you are not only a coward and a weak soul, you are effectively an enabler. This means you are aiding evil indirectly which makes you fair game for extermination as well.
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Wooly -
I am not sure if my post sparked your general statement, but if it did I was relying entirely on what Xal wrote. I was simply demonstrating his philosophy in action.
Xal wrote:
"If anyone feels bad for killing an orc that was about to kill or steal from him he does not deserve to live."
If you feel guilt or remorse over having to kill someone, according to Xal you deserve to die.
you dont deserve to die, but you do not deserve to live, for one reason you dont care about your life.
"If some women or even non-agresive people die that completly fine. supporting evil is as bad as being the one fighting on the field. Any children that die would be on the fualt of the agressor."
It is acceptable to kill women, children, and non-combatants if they get in the way of your plans. Simply living in an evil society makes you complicit in that societies actions.
yep, its true. sad but true.
"some people need a killing for their actions and that if other poeple, even babies, need to die because of that then its not thier problem."
It is acceptable to kill babies.
no reason to kill babies but no reason to save them either. secondly if ur the father of a baby and u go and risk your life in looting and die then its the fathers fualt, not the man who oprhaned the baby's fault.
"secondly if the orc choose to live his life like that then he would be better of dead to begin with. Hes the one that choose to live under evil, would he have any self esteem he would either rebel, and maybe die, then he would be an ally. however as long as he is there he has no right to his own life."
Re-enforcing a previous point, and expanding upon it here. It is acceptable to kill women, children, and non-combatants. Essentially, the moment you are born and draw your first independent breath, if you do not immediately crawl into the woods and die then you are complicit in that societies actions and you become fair game. You are expected to flee, even if it means it will result in your death, because anything less makes you complicit and therefore fair game.
well not the moment u breath air but the moment you become smart enough to realize whats going on. think of Drizzt in Mozzenbarzan. heck the little girl was in the right to pursue him and try and kill him since obviously she is not omniscnet. Drizzt however payed for that one. he should have gone out sooner of Mozzen. i mean Drizzt should have saved himself some trouble and get out the moment he was in the academy.
"the idea of the "peaceful majority" is more fitted to be called the "indiffrent majority". ad if your indiffrent to your life i see no moral problem of killing you to begin with. as i said, life belongs to those who fight for life."
Xal's logic here naturally extends beyond the society in question. If a society is deemed evil (by him), and you do not participate in its eradication then you are part of the "indifferent majority" -- if you are part of this "indifferent majority" then you are fair game for eradication.
This means that any Cormyrian who refused to fight someone attacking their lands, and instead seeks a peaceful solution then he is an enabler. If you enable evil (as he has previously stated) you are as bad as that evil itself. Therefore, all Cormyr would have to do is send word to the Dales that they want their help engaging in genocide in the Stonelands. If the Dalelands refuse they are enablers. If their citizens do not immediately rebel against their leaders, then they are also enablers. Cormyr is therefore justified in genocidal slaughter against the Dalelands for being supporters of evil. The Dalelands do not have to take any actions at all.
well think of it as someone offering a peace solution with Germany in the height of the Holocaust. pretty god damn evil.
for more notes look at the history of Rome, this is what Romans did and they lasted for 1000 years.
As Xal makes clear, he believes that this is the truest expression of good. Anyone who disagrees are weak cowards who would rather see evil enabled rather than defeated. This is his definition of a hero.
well i dont know what is your standard of good, my standard is life. i base everything on how will it enable the achievment of life of man qua man.
because life and death are mutually exclusive conditions if you are not on the side of life you are with death, and death you shall meet! |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 04:36:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
Xaeyruudh -
Exactly. I agree 100%. This is exactly why the "solution" is worse than the problem. The solution to get around any questionable ethical and moral questions of killing sentient beings (male orc raiders) is to make them all irredeemably evil. However, by making orcs irredeemably evil we end up with exactly the problem we've both discussed--which is actually a WORSE problem.
the only solution is to accepts Xal's idea of good and evil, everything else will put you in a contradiction. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 04:45:23
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Ahhhhh... if only the world was really so black-&-white.
For a good example of why you shouldn't just kill people, take a long hard look at the Middle East. You don't solve the problem in the long-term, and short-term solutions usually just make matters worse in the long run.
And since you enjoy philosophy so much, think of the environment as a living organism (because it is). If you remove one threat, something moves in to take its place... something that might be much worse. Your actions do not exist in a vacuum - for every action, there is a reaction.
The day you stop caring about those you do harm to is the day you become 'one of the bad guys'. Ambivalence is a steep and slippery slope. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 04:48:31
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[quote]Originally posted by Lyiat
Don't forget the pursuit of the almighty dollar. That absolutely has to be in there.
I think something Xal will have to realize sooner rather than later is that when you go out and say things like, "some people have to die" and "it's ok to kill children when it helps your goal", it not only sounds completely inhumane but outright sociopathic. A rational person wouldn't come to these conclusions.
if hes so rich and he has so much money then why would you be able to defeat him? also since people know that his thinking and production has single handily increased there level of life why would they
'rise' agianst him? i mean on what did he get rich? robbing people who had nothing? well what exactly would he rob? are you sure you want to fight him? you might have better chances taking on Chatlahulu.
this is simply lenin-like bs, stuff that brought to the death of millions of people. also as a jew the portrait of the Greedy Fat Banker as a villain is very very offensive.
well if it is so rational what is the reason that those conclusions are bad. WHY are those ideas bad and wrong?
im waiting in bated breath to hear the answer. ive been wating for all my life so far.
i doubt what you would take for rational, by that measure a raving lunatic bent on killing and raping as many as he can should deserve to live for some 'rational' reason. a muarador using a child as a human shield should be allowed to rob and kill you. a child wielding a heavy crossbow going to shoot you and kill you should not die.
odd reasons. really.
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:00:59
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just a tip to you about all the robberies and such, carry a gun. really do it. secondly no one who has seen war thinks enemies deserve mercy. if they did they would not come back alive.
So your strategy, for making a point and getting people to agree with you, is to make fun of someone at their funeral? How is this smart? Oh, I get it... your high opinion of your own intelligence and disdain for everything anyone else says is a joke, to send a message. Ha ha.
nope its funny because on one point they prattle about it and suddenly they die out of the blue. there ideas had no siginficance and so did their lives, and deaths.
heck i just want to get a point across that they are stupid.
Now that I've joined the crowd in feeding the troll, I can say from experience that it's kinda anti-climactic. Disappointing. I feel dirty. Worrying that I might get warts. 0/10, would not do again.
sure sure. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:00:59
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I just removed a post from this thread. We are NOT talking about real-world political situations. You've been warned on this already, Xal.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:03:37
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on the same thread of thought remove the other one to then, if you are so against real world poltics.
secondly its just fair. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:12:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
the only solution is to accepts Xal's idea of good and evil, everything else will put you in a contradiction.
You do realize that you are speaking in third person now, right?
quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
i have done things that were not nice, heck by your standard im probably a monster.
No "probably" in that sentence is necessary. You are. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:15:51
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yeah yeah and thanks to me people like you are alive right now and get to call me monster without getting permision from ZTZ. blah blah.
oddly my monstrosity is the key to your life. 'ironic'
secondly i have no idea what the hell you count as good. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:22:04
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Everyone needs to cool it, here. I do not want to see any more personal attacks, in any direction.
I've very close to locking this thread. I'm getting rather tired of that -- I've closed more threads in the last week than in the last two months. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:35:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've very close to locking this thread. I'm getting rather tired of that -- I've closed more threads in the last week than in the last two months.
Of course, Wooly there is a common factor in all of that, and a direct source of the problem.
Short of having EVERYONE on the forum simply ignore everything he writes (because he never really writes anything different or new), and pretending that he does not exist--this problem will keep happening. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 05:39:25
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btw its funny that with so many people i never heard why ought i do the things they propose. its funny. secondly i would say ive been attacked personally, heck its somewhat of a mistake to come back here. wooly for some reason you dont want to delete my account. and i can get playful at times.
secondly all of you can not ignore me because you know what i am saying is right and that you have no answer. |
Knowledge is Power |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 08:48:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
no, simply all of you are moral cowards.
Thanks for opening everyone's eyes at once, oh great prophet.
However, considering obvious facts such as that the developmental anomaly most widely present on teh internetz involves inability to distinguish between "cowardice" and "decency", you will have to do better than that. Or rather would.
quote:
some people deserve to die. thats it
You still fail to catch up.  The question here rather is "do trolls (for example) count as 'people' in the first place?" |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 08:59:57
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| the last post did not present any argument or coherent point. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 15:48:34
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| I have never even thought this before, despite having been here for years. I have seen many troublemakers come and go. Ban this person. I don't mind a spirited discussion and tend to ignore inflammatory scrolls, but this is becoming absurd. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 25 Oct 2014 16:14:22 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 16:02:19
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| This is not a soapbox. It is a place to exchange ideas, not to force them upon others. Go start a blog. Good luck with that. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 25 Oct 2014 16:03:04 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 16:20:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Lyiat
Xal makes me want to design an antagonist alchemist/artificer/scientist based around his philosophy and actions. I think it'd be a truely nightmarish enemy to face.
A little more insane version of him would make for an interesting kind of antagonist. Maybe set on ''purifying the world'' from all the people he perceives as evil and advancing science and knowledge at the same time. One that I would appreciate, as he would be different from the cliché, boring, evil for evil's sake kind of villain that D&D seems to be filled with.
the heck if that were to happen your heros would be evil monsters for letting a situation to do good in the world disrupt. and lets face it, theirs no way you can play him and hed loose. Xal Vazlar doesnt loose. ever.
he has contingency plans upon contingency plans upon bakcup plans.
hes the most respected merchant in all of Faerun, he never lied in his life.
he is sees money where others see nothing.
he never made a venture that did not in triple the original value.
he is a pinnacle of intelligence and of physical prowess.
he finished the induction the method of induction.
he is the chose of both Gond and Wuakeen.
he discovered and uses the most cutting edge technology in Toril.
he reduces archwizards and sages to stumbling idiots on questions of metaphysics.
hes the most beautiful sight you would ever see.seriously he's ripped.
he has no bit of hesitation.
he has enough money to hire an army of mercenaries.
he can invent a new item just to deal with one situation either putting months of minutes to make it work.
he uses magic without the weave.
he can out grapple a giant and if enlarged grapple a dragon and kill it by strangulation with an admantium chain.
he would recruit any man who values their own property to put an end to you and would make the whole world side against you for getting in the way of what is good.
he has no compromise on matters of good and evil.
he defeated the mightiest barbarian in a 1-on-1 duel.
he doesn't have magical weapons, he has technological weapons as part of a deal with Gond.
he has the strongest bond with all his colleges, all of them would risk their life for him.
and most importantly hes an expert at using his opponents strength against them.
he can not contemplate life without honor. (that is something that few can roleplay, most do not even know what honor is. (if you think differently give me a definition of honor), im the only one i know of)
if your up agianst Xal Valzar you are dead, you are more likely to come out alive with the Lady of Pain or Chtuluhu because they dont have a clear motive or any certainty of their morals, he does!
but i guess you would play some caricature of a fat banker with a mustache and a hat that might possibly have a very big nose. or just something else thats not him. if you really want to role play him you need to remember that he can not and will not think of life detached from honor and pride.
Why are you playing a campaign with Xal, if that charatcer has already achieved all of that? I mean, what possibly could you do in a campaign, if he has already triumphed on everything and everyone, fixed every problem in the Realms, defeated all evil, created the most advanced science and technology, discovered an alternative source of magic, enlightened the people of Toril on how to live their life and is the embodiment of perfection?
There is very little to do that is significative and not reduced to a trivial task by the might of your character, one who has already succeeded at everything. Then why not start another camapaign with a fresh character, who actually has to try, in order to succeed? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 25 Oct 2014 16:27:49 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 16:58:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
I have never even thought this before, despite having been here for years. I have seen many troublemakers come and go. Ban this person. I don't mind a spirited discussion and tend to ignore inflammatory scrolls, but this is becoming absurd.
Or move the boring offtopic to some "junkyard" thread so that those whom it still amuses may participate.
Unfortunately, the obvious solutions aren't the way it goes right now. The last time it was "if some inane troll decided to practice attention whoring in this or that thread, what a poor moderator can do but to close any threads the troll chose?"
Ahem.
So. returning to our marysues... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 17:10:42
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
(Edit: this mostly applies to novels, and mostly not to adventures)
I think, as I'm pretty sure has already been stated here (or in a similar thread since this can't be the first time it's ever been brought up), that many readers are going to perceive the murder of defenseless individuals as evil, regardless of the species. Especially because Drizzt. People naturally root for the underdogs, and Drizzt being not-evil creates a phenomenon where people want to see non-evil members of largely-evil societies. Stories set in an unambiguous, uncomplicated, uncaring universe where all members of evil species are evil, everywhere and all the time, would not sell as well and are therefore not a good choice for WotC to make.
Unfortunately, true. Things like "what makes sense" rarely even enters the consideration. It's about pandering and lowest common denominator. The result is epitomized by cover of "The North" (click to enlarge). Aside of the infamous chainmail bikinis.
quote:
If the protagonist spares the women and children, some readers will say "dude, you're an idiot for not killing those orcettes and orclings" but this doesn't really have much weight because it opens the door to sequels.
If, in contrast, every orc the hero ever encounters is slaughtered because it might probably become an enemy some day, many readers will say "dude, that's just not right."
1) Why are you so sure in the first place? Both that majority is where you want it to be, and that they are interested in this issue at all? Because low popularity of Conan who is pretty much the same, except not angsty goth teen? And for some reason you admit yourself that it "applies mostly not to adventures"
2) Even if so, there's a feedback loop. Since "majority of the target audience of X" and "majority of the target audience of Y" are not the same, an argument that "majority of the target audience of X would say something about Y and that would be wrong" is obviously disingenuous - unless you assert inherent superiority of the target audience of X, anyway.
3) Even if they bother to say - so what? Again, see "Conan". Or, for example, "Lina Inverse". Or, if you consider angst absolutely necessary component, there was that blondish guy with soul-eating sword... 
quote:
This is a much heavier statement due to the still-precarious reputation of D&D in society.
Er... Lolwut?
Also, what society? Of creative anachronism? Of anachronistic creationism? Of paralinguistic socialism?
quote:
On a personal level, I cannot introduce my date to D&D if every novel she ever picks up is going to include beheading babies and gutting moms. Pretty sure I'm not the only person who would start looking more seriously at playing/writing a different game system.
Perhaps. I, however, am not sure at all that the Most Copycated Wangsty Sue being used to "introduce to D&D" is such a good thing. Especially looking at the results.
Doubly so because such approach, as you admit yourself, "applies mostly not to adventures". This part makes such introduction plainly disingenuous - if perhaps not quite on the level of "Evony".
quote:
So regardless of our opinions about the orcish moral compass, it's just not smart for WotC to declare that orcs are irredeemably evil.
Are you too sure that "agreeing with you" and "smart" are one and the same?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 18:56:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Why are you playing a campaign with Xal, if that charatcer has already achieved all of that? I mean, what possibly could you do in a campaign, if he has already triumphed on everything and everyone, fixed every problem in the Realms, defeated all evil, created the most advanced science and technology, discovered an alternative source of magic, enlightened the people of Toril on how to live their life and is the embodiment of perfection?
There is very little to do that is significative and not reduced to a trivial task by the might of your character, one who has already succeeded at everything. Then why not start another camapaign with a fresh character, who actually has to try, in order to succeed?
The really sad part here, Irennan, is that his character is level two. All of those things? They are just stuff in his head. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 20:49:16
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| Ah. Well, nevermind then. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 21:50:39
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Things like "what makes sense" rarely even enters the consideration.
This is the only part of your post that makes sense to me.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Aside of the infamous chainmail bikinis. Because low popularity of Conan who is pretty much the same, except not angsty goth teen? Even if so, there's a feedback loop. Again, see "Conan". Or, for example, "Lina Inverse". Or, if you consider angst absolutely necessary component, there was that blondish guy with soul-eating sword... Er... Lolwut? Also, what society? Of creative anachronism? Of anachronistic creationism? Of paralinguistic socialism? I, however, am not sure at all that the Most Copycated Wangsty Sue being used to "introduce to D&D" is such a good thing. This part makes such introduction plainly disingenuous - if perhaps not quite on the level of "Evony".
I don't know how to respond to this. I don't even know what you're trying to say, or what you think it has to do with Drizzt (the alleged topic of the scroll) or novels in general (the recent tangent).
I think what I said applied more to novels and less to adventures for at least a couple of reasons.
1. Novels reach a much bigger audience, some of which doesn't play D&D or doesn't play in the FR setting. This makes the "rules" for novels different than those for writing adventures, because some folks will form an impression of FR and WotC based on what they see in the novels. Some DMs using other settings might buy FR adventures, but nobody who doesn't even play D&D is going to buy adventures.
2. Novels have one protagonist, and the author makes all the decisions. In adventures, the PCs are in charge of where the story goes (less so in linear adventures, but still) and a good adventure presents choices for the PCs to make and then lets them make them. The differences, from both authors' and players' perspectives, should be huge.
If the PCs encounter noncombatant monsters, and they choose to slaughter them, this has no negative impact on WotC... for the simple reason that nobody outside the group sees it. The emphasis on "choose" is to say that the adventure doesn't manipulate the PCs into killing the noncombatants... the PCs just find a camp, and decide without any outside pressure to kill everyone. There's no impact on WotC in this situation.
If, on the other hand, a novel is published in which the hero slaughters a camp of "monsters" that present no threat, then WotC potentially has a PR nightmare on its hands. Especially if the author is a big name in the industry, such as Bob Salvatore, because a lot of people read those books, and a lot of those people are going to have a problem with innocents (human or not) being slaughtered for no apparent reason. Because the only apparent reason for killing them in that situation is racism. WotC cannot promote racism, first because they're not stupid and second because Hasbro wouldn't let them, because Hasbro isn't stupid either.
Hopefully that clears it up. Not going to bother explaining the rest, without knowing what you're on about. 
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 23:27:56
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TBeholder - you played Evony?
I lead a top 10 alliance on two servers - one was #1 for a little while. I spent all night one night demolishing everything a big-money player built... in the morning he was in tears.
I realized I had become a monster and quit the game... but I went-out a legend. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2014 : 23:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Lyiat
Xal makes me want to design an antagonist alchemist/artificer/scientist based around his philosophy and actions. I think it'd be a truely nightmarish enemy to face.
A little more insane version of him would make for an interesting kind of antagonist. Maybe set on ''purifying the world'' from all the people he perceives as evil and advancing science and knowledge at the same time. One that I would appreciate, as he would be different from the cliché, boring, evil for evil's sake kind of villain that D&D seems to be filled with.
the heck if that were to happen your heros would be evil monsters for letting a situation to do good in the world disrupt. and lets face it, theirs no way you can play him and hed loose. Xal Vazlar doesnt loose. ever.
he has contingency plans upon contingency plans upon bakcup plans.
hes the most respected merchant in all of Faerun, he never lied in his life.
he is sees money where others see nothing.
he never made a venture that did not in triple the original value.
he is a pinnacle of intelligence and of physical prowess.
he finished the induction the method of induction.
he is the chose of both Gond and Wuakeen.
he discovered and uses the most cutting edge technology in Toril.
he reduces archwizards and sages to stumbling idiots on questions of metaphysics.
hes the most beautiful sight you would ever see.seriously he's ripped.
he has no bit of hesitation.
he has enough money to hire an army of mercenaries.
he can invent a new item just to deal with one situation either putting months of minutes to make it work.
he uses magic without the weave.
he can out grapple a giant and if enlarged grapple a dragon and kill it by strangulation with an admantium chain.
he would recruit any man who values their own property to put an end to you and would make the whole world side against you for getting in the way of what is good.
he has no compromise on matters of good and evil.
he defeated the mightiest barbarian in a 1-on-1 duel.
he doesn't have magical weapons, he has technological weapons as part of a deal with Gond.
he has the strongest bond with all his colleges, all of them would risk their life for him.
and most importantly hes an expert at using his opponents strength against them.
he can not contemplate life without honor. (that is something that few can roleplay, most do not even know what honor is. (if you think differently give me a definition of honor), im the only one i know of)
if your up agianst Xal Valzar you are dead, you are more likely to come out alive with the Lady of Pain or Chtuluhu because they dont have a clear motive or any certainty of their morals, he does!
but i guess you would play some caricature of a fat banker with a mustache and a hat that might possibly have a very big nose. or just something else thats not him. if you really want to role play him you need to remember that he can not and will not think of life detached from honor and pride.
Why are you playing a campaign with Xal, if that charatcer has already achieved all of that? I mean, what possibly could you do in a campaign, if he has already triumphed on everything and everyone, fixed every problem in the Realms, defeated all evil, created the most advanced science and technology, discovered an alternative source of magic, enlightened the people of Toril on how to live their life and is the embodiment of perfection?
There is very little to do that is significative and not reduced to a trivial task by the might of your character, one who has already succeeded at everything. Then why not start another camapaign with a fresh character, who actually has to try, in order to succeed?
though now hes around the middle of that, im assuming ur party level is med to high.
at lower levels hes all of those things but on a smaller magnitude.
oh no, theres still plenty to do, this part of the campagin involves making a god suit and using to kill the gods, ALL the gods. for killing his good friend and the extrach of Gond. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 00:02:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
This is not a soapbox. It is a place to exchange ideas, not to force them upon others. Go start a blog. Good luck with that.
exchange idea??? i did not hear any idea being uttered here other then me. only the authoritarian commandments of: though shall not be a mary sue AND though shalt have mercy upon your enemies.
i dont know how you exchange ideas but it seems that u demand that someone will think that his idea is not right before he enters an argument. or think it is right but not act like he is for some reason.
oh i didnt force them upon you, you might not know this but there is no way to force ideas upon someone. nothing you can say or show can make a person belive something he did not identify himself.
the closest thing you can do is make the person unable to produce any ideas of his own by removing any type of Independence and integrity from daily life. think of the lives of people in dictatorial-socialist countries. my grandfather told me much about life in the USSR but it was not stuff you cant hear anywhere else. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 00:24:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Aldrick
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Why are you playing a campaign with Xal, if that charatcer has already achieved all of that? I mean, what possibly could you do in a campaign, if he has already triumphed on everything and everyone, fixed every problem in the Realms, defeated all evil, created the most advanced science and technology, discovered an alternative source of magic, enlightened the people of Toril on how to live their life and is the embodiment of perfection?
There is very little to do that is significative and not reduced to a trivial task by the might of your character, one who has already succeeded at everything. Then why not start another camapaign with a fresh character, who actually has to try, in order to succeed?
The really sad part here, Irennan, is that his character is level two. All of those things? They are just stuff in his head.
now hes at lvl 3 but he still tinkers with stuff, he made an acid hunting trap for forest warfare. he still gets some boons from Gond and Wuakeen. he won the respect of an entire town and a merchant group. he ownes some estates. he still has the same moral charcter. he started using magic and sees ways to do it outside the weave. got into induction. he has quite a lot of money for a lvl 3 (1500gold), he made a new type of sword by combining a dagger and a longsword that lets him grapple much better. he is all the things he was in the list but not as much.
but in terms of heroism he is still the same titan. |
Knowledge is Power |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 01:34:40
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| Again, leave the real world stuff out of the discussion. I'm getting tired of removing it. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 26 Oct 2014 : 01:41:47
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quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones
Your theoretical antagonist is missing the ability to stun onlookers by flexing the pecs of the most transcendent body to walk Faerun.
Like this? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The case of the broken Drizzt
Topic Locked
