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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
755 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 19:55:56
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| Interesting. It was sad reading the part where the Realms are gutted then they oh so magnanimously "offered" the creators of the setting the opportunity to step in and fix it. I don't pretend to know the full story but that makes me sick to my stomach. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 20:59:21
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quote:
Although The Sundering was constructed as a series, each book stood alone. Salvatore likened the team effort to writing about the events of World War II. "I'm doing the Blitz, Ed Greenwood's doing the North Africa campaign, Erin Evans' is doing the Holocaust, Paul Kemp's doing the Pacific, and Richard Lee Byers is doing D-Day. We were all doing different things and using different characters, but it's this over-arching event that affects [the Forgotten Realms] as we go."
Except that their story about WWII is about some guy in Spain having breakfast, going to the market, changing the tires on his car and then while going to bed he walks by a radio in the background and you hear a half-sentence about the allies landing somewhere in France before he turns it off |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4706 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:32:44
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*Blink* That makes little sense considering reports are the novel schedule is sparse.
I also take exception to "Erin Evans' is doing the Holocaust" in that I was not aware of any genocide coming in her book. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 15 Oct 2014 22:34:08 |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:46:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
*Blink* That makes little sense considering reports are the novel schedule is sparse.
I also take exception to "Erin Evans' is doing the Holocaust" in that I was not aware of any genocide coming in her book.
Well, there was a internment camp full of starving prisoners and regularly some of them were dragged of to be tortured to death |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3824 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 22:59:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Although The Sundering was constructed as a series, each book stood alone. Salvatore likened the team effort to writing about the events of World War II. "I'm doing the Blitz, Ed Greenwood's doing the North Africa campaign, Erin Evans' is doing the Holocaust, Paul Kemp's doing the Pacific, and Richard Lee Byers is doing D-Day. We were all doing different things and using different characters, but it's this over-arching event that affects [the Forgotten Realms] as we go."
Except that their story about WWII is about some guy in Spain having breakfast, going to the market, changing the tires on his car and then while going to bed he walks by a radio in the background and you hear a half-sentence about the allies landing somewhere in France before he turns it off
Heh, nicely put. We have a very narrow picture of what happened, it looks like it's going to stay like this for a long time, and it makes less and less sense, considering that (from this) it seems that they're still hyping the Sundering even after its conclusion...  |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 15 Oct 2014 23:00:20 |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 23:22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Interesting. It was sad reading the part where the Realms are gutted then they oh so magnanimously "offered" the creators of the setting the opportunity to step in and fix it. I don't pretend to know the full story but that makes me sick to my stomach.
Wow, it's fascinating how people make the wildest interpretations... |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2014 : 23:45:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
*Blink* That makes little sense considering reports are the novel schedule is sparse.
I also take exception to "Erin Evans' is doing the Holocaust" in that I was not aware of any genocide coming in her book.
I think the comparison is because the main plot deals with Farideh (and possibly Havilar as well) because Chosen of Asmodeus. The series mentions Asmodeus giving instructions to all his devils to put some huge plan into motion. He's Hitler, his devil minions are the Nazis, his plans are the Final Solution, Cormyr is the good old USA, Myth Drannor is England, and Farideh and co. + the Harpers are the many conspirators who worked covertly to assassinate Hitler. That's how I see it.
The problem with that analogy is that Shar should be Hitler, and the Netherese should be the Nazis, because they were always the main threat in 4e and the Sundering. Then again, maybe Asmodeus was always the main threat, and he just hasn't played his hand yet. With all the focus on Netheril, many villains have had the chance to secretly conspire. |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
755 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 03:32:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Interesting. It was sad reading the part where the Realms are gutted then they oh so magnanimously "offered" the creators of the setting the opportunity to step in and fix it. I don't pretend to know the full story but that makes me sick to my stomach.
Wow, it's fascinating how people make the wildest interpretations...
I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from vaguely belittling me. If you want to add something to the discussion feel free but try to make a cogent point. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 04:21:47
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This was my favorite part of the article (emphasis mine):
quote:
Every two weeks, Salvatore, other Realms authors, and the publishing team at Wizards convene online or over the phone to discuss the state of the Realms. Traditionally, each Realms author stayed in his or her corner of the world. "I basically hide away from the main stories as much as I can, but we really don't want to do that anymore because they're licensing more now. There are a couple of computer games set in the Realms: Dungeons & Dragons Online, and Neverwinter, and I'm sure there will be more."
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 04:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Interesting. It was sad reading the part where the Realms are gutted then they oh so magnanimously "offered" the creators of the setting the opportunity to step in and fix it. I don't pretend to know the full story but that makes me sick to my stomach.
I didn't read that wording. I read,
quote:
As things died down, Salvatore and other Realms authors were given the task of writing a multi-book series called The Sundering. "It was a blast," Salvatore said.
"Given the task" doesn't exactly sound like "offered".
Regardless of which wording most correctly conveys the tone at the time, Bob's description of the WOTC authors' summit as a "blast" makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
quote:
Although The Sundering was constructed as a series, each book stood alone. Salvatore likened the team effort to writing about the events of World War II. "I'm doing the Blitz, Ed Greenwood's doing the North Africa campaign, Erin Evans' is doing the Holocaust, Paul Kemp's doing the Pacific, and Richard Lee Byers is doing D-Day. We were all doing different things and using different characters, but it's this over-arching event that affects [the Forgotten Realms] as we go."
Except that their story about WWII is about some guy in Spain having breakfast, going to the market, changing the tires on his car and then while going to bed he walks by a radio in the background and you hear a half-sentence about the allies landing somewhere in France before he turns it off
Kinda like the little boy character played by a young Christian Bale in the movie Empire of the Sun? He was a Brit son of a diplomat stationed in China during WWII, who witnessed some of the events of the Japanese campaign from a distance. The movie depicted various aspects of the war, but from a child's skewed perspective.
The thing I don't get about your statement is your use of the word "Except". There really isn't an exception, there. At the end of your excerpted quote, RAS said that the various authors were writing about different things using different characters, but the Sundering was the overarching event that affected the Realms as the writers went along. And that's basically the same thing that you said, using another WWII analogy.
Nevertheless, if you are lamenting that the main event was not described more directly, instead of focusing so much on the various pet NPCs that the main event basically got shoved to the sidelines, then I would join you. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 16 Oct 2014 05:03:00 |
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ErinMEvans
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 18:17:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
*Blink* That makes little sense considering reports are the novel schedule is sparse.
I also take exception to "Erin Evans' is doing the Holocaust" in that I was not aware of any genocide coming in her book.
I really think he was just selecting some WWII elements to show that you have this huge "story arc" and to do the scope of it justice you have to acknowledge it's less one event than a thousand smaller events in concert.
I would also point out "The Sundering" the novel series and the marketing campaign have ended. But the stories are not finished. For myself I can say Fire in the Blood, which came out this week!, shows Cormyr's place in the wars there, the book I'm currently working on, (Ashes of the Tyrants) and the last book (tentatively, King of Dust, will show Tymanther/Unther, and the entirety of that series arc will follow the Nine Hells and what happens with Asmodeus. I won't get to the post-Sundering era in this series, in fact. I know Salvatore and Denning are still within the Sundering with their next few books as well.
Making novels responsible for describing big, high-level events isn't playing to their strengths and it's the kind of thing people seemed to dislike about the transitional novels of 3E-4E. The goal we were given was to tell stories that focused on characters, not gods and setting. Weave those in, sure--how do you write a Realms novel without doing that?--but don't do it at the expense of good characterization. I can't say whether TRPG will put out a sourcebook about the Sundering specifically. I think they're still chewing through all the lore we created in those story summits and deciding what works. (None of which means you have to like it. But that's my perspective anyway.) |
www.slushlush.com |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3824 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 18:35:22
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The thing is -and I think it has already been said- that after all the hype, all the marketing, promises and buildup we are left with this very narrow picture of the state of the Realms post Sundering, with most of it still missing. It's cool to have stories set during this RSE, to show mortal perspective of it, but those novels are expected (I guess) to accompany lore that describes the state of the setting (especially considering how this story has been described -the RSE that will end them all, that will change the Realms forever and ever, and whatever other catchy phrases-).
It's been 2 years since they announced this Sundering, and all we have got now are some changes that look like bandaid fixes (some of which had already been -or were about to be- revealed and resolved before this series, like Mystra's return in Ed's novels, Lolth's defeat in that Weave-related thingy with the organized play adventures, and the matter of Helm and the Triad with ESdB's work), and people saying that it's going to be all cool and shiny, but little concrete yet. I'm not blaming this on authors, ofc, but it certainly is frustrating (at least to me).
PS: I noticed you mentioned Unther, nice to see that lands are being un-nuked. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 16 Oct 2014 18:50:59 |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 19:17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Interesting. It was sad reading the part where the Realms are gutted then they oh so magnanimously "offered" the creators of the setting the opportunity to step in and fix it. I don't pretend to know the full story but that makes me sick to my stomach.
Wow, it's fascinating how people make the wildest interpretations...
I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from vaguely belittling me. If you want to add something to the discussion feel free but try to make a cogent point.
I entered this scroll and when I came upon your post I thought it was odd that RA Salvatore or the interviewer would be bashing 4E. When I actually read the interview I find out that they vaguely even give it a passing mention and that your assertion of what went on in the interview was completely nonsensical.
Is your post a glimpse of what we can expect in the future, people warping whatever Realms info that is released into just another opportunity to whine (yet again) about 4E? |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 19:22:39
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| Gentlemen: please drop it and move on. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 19:24:09
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quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Making novels responsible for describing big, high-level events isn't playing to their strengths and it's the kind of thing people seemed to dislike about the transitional novels of 3E-4E.
I'll honestly have to disagree with this.
If I'd have to fault anything about the 3E-4E transitional novels it would be them not giving enough information about the transitions, not giving too much of it. I'm actually pretty ok with the description of events in the Avatar trilogy. On the other hand, with the Empyrean Odyssey trilogy, while it described the event that caused the Spellplague, we weren't in the thick of the action to observe it, which personally was my problem with it. We'd only get agents of the gods describing how things had happened.
And the Sundering handled the transition even worse.
Now, I'm not saying that the books are horrible, I actually really liked them, but as a tie-in for the Sundering they were a big let down in that respect. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
755 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 19:51:18
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
Regardless of which wording most correctly conveys the tone at the time, Bob's description of the WOTC authors' summit as a "blast" makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
Are you using sarcasm? I can't tell.
He's putting a great positive light on it which is fine.
I doubt regardless of what his true feeling about it are that he would actually speak them in a public forum. I'm sure it was a blast to work with all those great people, as any of us would kill for the chance just to sit in the same room with those people.
What isn't said, says more than what is. That's how I read it anyway.
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Edited by - Cards77 on 16 Oct 2014 19:59:51 |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
755 Posts |
Posted - 16 Oct 2014 : 19:58:35
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quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Making novels responsible for describing big, high-level events isn't playing to their strengths and it's the kind of thing people seemed to dislike about the transitional novels of 3E-4E.
Interesting. I've always personally viewed Troy Denning as sort of the "go-to" person for world-shaking events. Both from his work in Dark Sun Prism Pentad and The Return of the Archwizards trilogy. I'm sure other things I'm not thinking of right off the bat?
Not that he isn't great in all those other areas as well because he is....absolutely fantastic. Those novels are just top notch in all areas IMO.
One of my favorite authors ever. |
Edited by - Cards77 on 16 Oct 2014 20:02:06 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 02:38:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
Are you using sarcasm? I can't tell.
No, not at all. I'm happy that Bob sounds happy in the interview, and every other time that he talks about that summit. He has consistently described that meet as a great time for all. Much like Ed's positive comments about the future of the Realms post-4E and about how much fun he's having, I can't help but smile on the inside. And on the outside, too.
quote:
He's putting a great positive light on it which is fine.
I doubt regardless of what his true feeling about it are that he would actually speak them in a public forum.
I think you're mistaking his comments on the 5E planning meeting as comments about 4E. Apples and oranges, there.
Bob has been EXTREMELY diplomatic about his feelings on the way that 4E's changes were handed down. He's expressed disappointment, before. But he's also been a professional about the whole affair.
But that's not this. This was a talk about the next phase, after all that. This was a meeting in which the major authors had the reigns set free, and they were being encouraged both to tell great stories and to fix some stuff. And their exhiliration because of that was palpable to me.
It's not a case of whitewashing 4E. It's a case of moving on, and moving upward. That's what healthy, optimistic people do. Or so I'm told.
quote:
What isn't said, says more than what is. That's how I read it anyway.
Granted. The cynic in me still would like to hear their most candid thoughts on 4E and the decision-making process at the time. Sometimes it's fun to really wallow in the dirt, and to frolic in the muck.
But I'm getting to a point in my life where I would rather focus on the positive, and let the negative stuff drip off and fall to the wayside. It's more important to progress, when given the opportunity, than to dwell. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 03:29:32
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| Well said, Beast. Well said. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 05:48:01
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I don't think RA Salvatore has been "EXTREMELY diplomatic" at all. He's on the record as stating that as soon as Spellplague and 100 year jump was announced he turned to Ed and started planning what they were "going to do about it".
And I do agree that Salvatore sounds very happy in the interview, and why wouldn't he? WotC has allowed him to bring back all of his characters and so he's got 20 more years of going back to the well again and again. He remains in his comfort zone and gets to keep making money for everyone. I'd be happy with that if I was him too. Of course, the cost of that was giving him a novel in the "Sundering" series, which novel had absolutely zero to do with the Sundering, but hey "character driven" covers a multitude of sins.
Looking forward to Erin Evans' new Cormyr book. From the excerpts it's readily apparent that she is an FR author who cares about the lore and more importantly, knows how to weave it into the narrative.
The Swordsage |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 06:14:18
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Agreed, with Cards77 and with BEAST and Jeremy.  I'm flexible like that.
I enjoy and have crazy respect for the abilities of Bob and Ed to be positive and professional with us. Ed's patience with people mucking up his brainchild is immeasurable. That being said, it's sad and frustrating that it's been put to the test so profoundly and regularly. I wish sometimes that I could let the negative be "water off a duck's back" but I think there's value in calling out BS for the purpose of minimizing future negative. Even ducks will struggle under Niagara Falls, ya know? I don't claim to speak for anyone else, but that's where my agreement with (and occasional fist-pounding instigation of) the naysaying comes from.
At this point though, the Spellplague is finally done. Let's see how they've managed resurrecting the baby that was thrown out with the bath water. And Bob's positive attitude is helpful and appreciated in that pursuit.
I also appreciate the fact that someone's talking about something. As has already been pointed out, there's a very conspicuous lack of official word regarding a 5e campaign guide. So while reading some more behind the scenes detail of the Sundering series doesn't give me a new book to absorb, at least it's somebody saying something about something Realms-related, and it's positive.
And that puts me in the mood to go back to work on my own campaign guide, in case we don't see one from WotC for a while. |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
755 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 23:34:33
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I don't want to focus on the negative. I just can't help but hearing what's "unsaid". No one is going to come out and say "oh yeah the Spellplague was stupid and they killed all my characters. It was moronic and I cried myself to sleep most nights." You know biting the hand that feeds and all that.
The authors did the best they could with a poor situation and I'm grateful for that. I just realized how ludicrous the whole time jump and resurrection was. No one talks about it. I'm NOT trying to be negative or get down on anyone.
I'm simply pointing out what ISN'T being said. I can't imagine that if WE have those feelings, the authors and creators don't have those feelings.
It's just my opinion. It's a fact of the real world that things had to be done for financial reasons. My personal choice is to never move my game beyond 3.5e. It's sad that I can't continue on with the setting.....but I can't. I can't suspend my disbelief. The creators and authors from 1st to 3.5ed were MASTERS of making us all suspend our disbelief.
That will never change. I'm not trying to hold people responsible for my personal investment in 1st-3rd edition. I'm just giving my true feelings. Some people will appreciate that and some won't. I'm glad there is a way forward for others into 5e but I just can't follow. |
Edited by - Cards77 on 18 Oct 2014 23:36:13 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2014 : 23:35:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
I don't think RA Salvatore has been "EXTREMELY diplomatic" at all. He's on the record as stating that as soon as Spellplague and 100 year jump was announced he turned to Ed and started planning what they were "going to do about it".
Right, but he didn't state that right after 4E dropped.
He waited.
At the time, he only said that it's a business, and business decisions are made for various reasons, and he and Ed and the others were taking their marching orders and continuing the march. He did say that he saw the post-Spellplague era as an opportunity to put Drizzt through his paces in a new way. And that's exactly what he did with Drizzt.
Publicly respecting authority? Finding a positive amidst all the changes? That seems pretty darn diplomatic to me.
The talk of brainstorming how to undo some of what 4E did only started circulating once news of D&DNext/5E emerged. No matter how subversive or contrarian those plans might seem to us now, Ed & Bob absolutely at least played the part of good little soldiers while in the limelight,at the time.
quote:
Of course, the cost of that was giving him a novel in the "Sundering" series, which novel had absolutely zero to do with the Sundering, but hey "character driven" covers a multitude of sins.
Really?
The ancient poem's prophecy of many gods selecting Chosen souls had nothing to do with the Sundering? As did the Netherese's investigations into whom the Chosen of all these deities were? Mielikki's gift to Drizzt of the return of his friends, and thereby her unambiguous announcement as to who her personal Chosen was, contributed to our unfolding understanding of the Sundering? And the intimations of a war against the Way of Lolth doesn't seem to tie in with the larger event in any way at all?
The problem with your use of absolute language is that it only takes one exception to prove you wrong. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2014 : 00:15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
I don't want to focus on the negative. I just can't help but hearing what's "unsaid". No one is going to come out and say "oh yeah the Spellplague was stupid and they killed all my characters. It was moronic and I cried myself to sleep most nights." You know biting the hand that feeds and all that.
The authors did the best they could with a poor situation and I'm grateful for that. I just realized how ludicrous the whole time jump and resurrection was. No one talks about it. I'm NOT trying to be negative or get down on anyone.
I'm simply pointing out what ISN'T being said. I can't imagine that if WE have those feelings, the authors and creators don't have those feelings.
Maybe it's just too soon. Give them time, and they might reveal some good juicy details, down the road.
Have you ever heard Bob explain the background behind the ridiculous names of his dwarves Dagnabbit and Pikel, originally introduced in his novels from 1990? They were both born of irreverent retaliation against higher-ups in the books department over previous decisions made.
Right now, methinks the power writers are focused mostly on contributing to the righting of the ship, more than on condemning the captain thereof.
But in time, they might grow comfortable enough to be a little more candid and open with us about their more negative feelings on all this.
Don't forget that this is a shared world. Everybody concerned needs to be a team player. We're not just talking about personal scribblings in someone's private journal, but big business that involves a lot of people's egos and well-being. I think it's totally understandable if the authors are treading more lightly than some of us would ordinarily like them to be. To do otherwise would be reckless. And it doesn't sound like WOTC or the Realms can afford that. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Swordsage
Learned Scribe
149 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2014 : 12:41:48
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
The ancient poem's prophecy of many gods selecting Chosen souls had nothing to do with the Sundering? As did the Netherese's investigations into whom the Chosen of all these deities were? Mielikki's gift to Drizzt of the return of his friends, and thereby her unambiguous announcement as to who her personal Chosen was, contributed to our unfolding understanding of the Sundering? And the intimations of a war against the Way of Lolth doesn't seem to tie in with the larger event in any way at all?
The problem with your use of absolute language is that it only takes one exception to prove you wrong.
You'll have to enlighten me as I clearly didn't understand what "The Companions" means and stands for within the panoply of the Sundering novels.
Please give me insight into how the Sundering poem, as it relates to Salvatore's novel, is showcased.
Please also refer me to the "unambiguous announcement" you refer to. I assume you mean pgs.375-376 in the book's Epilogue. Can't see where it that refers to Drizz't as Mielikki's Chosen.
As for the "intimations" you refer to, they are intimations about further Salvatore novels no doubt. Again, nothing to do with the Sundering.
In my opinion, Salvatore's "Companions" novel is nothing more than a self-serving prose exertion directed to a single, primary goal: the return of his characters so he can write more novels. That may be a very cynical view, but I think it's glaringly obvious.
Rest assured, I don't hold it against him - he's an astute businessman. What I struggle with is the "Emperor's New Clothes" dynamic revolving around that novel. The Sundering is absolutely incidental to Salvatore's chief intention in respect of "The Companions". Any attribution to a different main aim, is in my opinion utter poppycock. He wrote the book to bring back all his previous 3E characters so he could continue to write novels. Dress it up any other way you want BEAST, but you know that this statement holds true.
The Swordsage |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
214 Posts |
Posted - 19 Oct 2014 : 16:33:56
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It was a non-event to me, the Sundering. A lot of hot air. I can't attest to the quality of the later books, since after Book II I could tell it was never going to actually detail what the hell the Sundering was or what changes it was going to make and stopped reading.
To this day I still haven't got a clue what the 5e Realms looks like, or will look like. Honestly, the only impression I'm getting from WotC is "We don't know either". For me, WotC has until August 2015 to figure it out (meaning a campaign guide/setting book released or with a projected release announced). If there's nothing by then...*sigh*....I just hope there is. I'm really sick of watching WotC disappearing up it's own rear-end. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 04:25:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Swordsage
You'll have to enlighten me as I clearly didn't understand what "The Companions" means and stands for within the panoply of the Sundering novels.
With the Sundering approaching, the gods are nervous. They seek to amass Chosen somehow to help them through this difficult time. Mielikki is no different. And so, through the course of the novel, we see her convoluted way of picking her Chosen.
That's not all that happens in the novel, of course. Bob gets to continue his own personal Drizzt Saga along the way.
quote:
Please give me insight into how the Sundering poem, as it relates to Salvatore's novel, is showcased.
The sonnet "Cherlrigo's Darkness", which is featured in the frontpiece of the book, has six stanzas, corresponding to the six novels of the entire mini-series. The opening stanza corresponds to The Companions. It speaks of the beginning of the trials, which is a reference to the beginning phase of the Sundering. The hunter is said to wait alone/in solitude despairing, which is a reference to the severely injured state that Drizzt, often known as the Hunter, finds himself in throughout the novel, as a result of the climax of the previous Drizzt book, The Last Threshold. At this time, the companions are said to emerge from their previous fates, which is a loose reference to the Companions defying death and being reincarnated. And then there is a line about said companions uniting against a common foe, which is a reference to the Companions deciding to assist Drizzt in defying Lolth as the Sundering continues to unfold.
I'll grant you that the entire poem seems crafted especially to fit the novels, instead of the other way around. The prophecy about the Sundering ever so conveniently tells us what the novels were already set to do. So it's totally a post hoc prophecy.
Nevertheless, it still fits the first book of the series very well.
quote:
Please also refer me to the "unambiguous announcement" you refer to. I assume you mean pgs.375-376 in the book's Epilogue. Can't see where it that refers to Drizz't as Mielikki's Chosen.
You're right that Drizzt still has never been explicitly cited as Mielikki's Chosen--only Catti-brie has.
But he has been repeatedly referred to as her "favored".
Furthermore, in Ch. 3, Catti-brie says that the undeath of the soul afforded by the plane of Iruladoon was a gift by Mielikki to Drizzt--not to the rest of Companions. Mielikki, like the other gods, would seek out her champions among some, and make champions of others. Catti-brie is made a Chosen of Mielikki, apparently during the Iruladoon matter. But Drizzt is apparently the one whom Mielikki seeks out as Chosen. Cat says that Mielikki warns that Drizzt could very well lose everything when he absolutely goes all in for the goddess, and so the gift of Iruladoon is all an attempt to help him with that struggle, by giving him back his closest friends and allies. It is all tied back to him.
While Cat is certainly identified as Mielikki's Chosen in the end, that passage puts Drizzt even above or ahead of her.
quote:
As for the "intimations" you refer to, they are intimations about further Salvatore novels no doubt. Again, nothing to do with the Sundering.
As I mentioned, the poem refers to the companions uniting against a common foe.
As the Sundering unfolds, the gods jockey for power and position. This showdown between Mielikki and Lolth would seem to be a very clear example of exactly that.
quote:
In my opinion, Salvatore's "Companions" novel is nothing more than a self-serving prose exertion directed to a single, primary goal: the return of his characters so he can write more novels. That may be a very cynical view, but I think it's glaringly obvious.
Rest assured, I don't hold it against him - he's an astute businessman. What I struggle with is the "Emperor's New Clothes" dynamic revolving around that novel. The Sundering is absolutely incidental to Salvatore's chief intention in respect of "The Companions". Any attribution to a different main aim, is in my opinion utter poppycock. He wrote the book to bring back all his previous 3E characters so he could continue to write novels. Dress it up any other way you want BEAST, but you know that this statement holds true.
You get no argument from me that that was his main aim. He's been writing the Drizzt Saga for decades, and he's still actively doing it. There's no surprise, here.
I think that this probably holds true for all of the writers of installments in the "The Sundering" mini-series, to some degree. They're all writers who like to tell dramatic stories. Their chief aim is to tell a story, with characters, and a dramatic story arc, and conflict, and a climax, and all that. It isn't to provide us with a briefing on the Sundering event, or a dry encyclopedia reference book article. The Sundering happens to be a background event behind all of their respective stories, but it does not seem to the main event of any of them.
I wouldn't fault any of the individual authors for that, though. Remember, it's usually the publisher who packages the novels in this mini-series or that one. The authors just churn them out. (OK, well, they banter a little back and forth beforehand, too.) But as to exactly where one collection of books ends (as a "trilogy"? or a "quartet"?) is up to the publisher.
Bob, in particular, has made it clear that he doesn't put much stock in that decision by the publisher. His focus is on the ongoing story of his characters. Yes, the publisher insists that he hits on some points, here and there, as he goes along. But his main thrust has always been his where his characters are leading.
What I take exception to was your earlier notion that The Companions has "absolutely zero" to do with the Sundering.
And what I take offense to is your characterization of his novel The Companions as nothing more than "self-serving". Bob sat in on the big meet with all the other main Realms writers. He worked out a plan right along with the rest of them. He found a way to tie his novel in with the named year from the Realms calendar. He sloughed off the drudgery and dread that the Spellplague era had come to be known for by undoing the deaths of some of his most well-known characters. And he dared to inch us readers closer to a brawl between Mielikki and Lolth, right in line with the conflicts that the Sundering is supposed to be bringing us. In all these ways, Bob worked as part of the team.
How is that "nothing more than [...] self-serving"?
I get it that you want more clarity from WOTC about the Sundering. This has been an extremely, glacially slow unveiling on their part. And it has been gray and vague.
But I don't think it's right to snipe at any of the novelists for that. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 20 Oct 2014 04:27:24 |
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The Holy Trinity of R.A. Salvatore (Part 1)
