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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 22:38:41
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Just got the MM today (a day early, thankya Amazon!) and I plan to drop some thoughts here as I go through it. I skimmed it, though, and I'll start with some initial thoughts and questions.
First Impressions
I didn't play 4e, so I'm going to compare (where comparisons seem appropriate) the 5e MM to the latest one I have, which is 3.5e.
There's no index of monsters by type or CR. Here's a quick & dirty CR list I made. These were useful little lists in the 3.5 MM, and they didn't take much space, so I don't really get why they weren't included. There is an index of stat blocks, but given the Table of Contents this index is of minor value and I would have rather seen one of its pages devoted to lists by type and CR. The other page could have been a list by typical habitat... also useful.
Speaking of habitat... good luck. 3.5e made it reasonably clear where you could expect to find each kind of monster. 5e doesn't. Neither habitat nor climate appear in the (much shrunken) stat blocks. The reasoning behind this is articulated on page 6 and can be summarized thus: "don't worry about where the monster belongs; put it wherever you want." This could be a cool idea, and their examples are decent.
quote:
After all, "fish out of water" stories are memorable, and sometimes it's fun to surprise players with gricks hiding under the desert sands or a dryad living in a giant mushroom in the Underdark.
Point taken. However, there's a lot of value in "Environment: temperate hills." You're still free to put that goofy-lookin hill giant wherever you want, but at least you'd know where his family comes from. If this kind of thing matters to you, you'll find yourself referring back to the 3.5e MM (or making it up) for some monsters.
The fine, diminutive, and colossal size categories are gone. Anything smaller than a goblin is tiny. Anything larger than a treant is gargantuan. This is a huge drop in "resolution" and it will have a strange effect in play... which deserves its own paragraph.
Hit points are now determined by a creature's size rather than type. Tiny things use d4 for hp, small creatures use d6, medium use d8, large use d10, huge use d12, and gargantuan use d20. On the surface this makes sense, but in the back of the book is an example of when it doesn't work. NPC mages (page 347) have 9d8 hp... serving as an example of both why using d8 for all medium creatures has lame results and why giving all creatures only one hit dice value is stupid.
There are now 14 types: aberration, beast, celestial, construct, dragon, elemental, fey, fiend, giant, humanoid, monstrosity, ooze, plant, and undead. Animal and vermin are gone; they're beasts now. Magical beast and monstrous humanoid are gone; they're beasts or monstrosities now. Outsider is gone, split into celestial and fiend. Slaads, which don't qualify as celestials or fiends, are now aberrations... bizarre.
Subtypes no longer exist. Some monsters still have parenthetical identifiers next to their type, but they're just tags now. Barlgura, for example, have the demon tag... but it doesn't have any of the effects that the tanar'ri subtype did. And barlgura isn't hyphenated anymore.
The stat blocks are small, but they can include special abilities... so in some cases they're not small at all. This results in occasional weirdness. The aboleth picture and stat block are on page 13, but you have to turn the page for their heading and actual description.
There might be some exceptions, but it looks like effort was put into making monster headings start at the top of a page. This is an improvement over 3.5e, where headings might happen anywhere on the page.
The art is a mixed bag, as usual. I think a lot of the color palettes were good/great, but photorealism was not usually a priority, proportions are wonky on some things that should look like humans (okay the hill giant is just ridiculous), and sometimes logic seems to be thrown out the window (how and why would a ghoul have a two foot long tongue?). Some of it is just personal taste (dao should have legs, and marids should look more like humans and less like kuo-toa).
There is also some recycling of art... the barbed devil is identical to 3.5e, the cockatrice is close if not the same, and the chuul and darkmantle are very similar too. The dragons keep their 3e head shapes and wing styles... also disappointing, but that's personal taste again.
So after a quick flipthrough, my first impression is "it could have been worse." But srsly, Advancement is required. Or else give me a nice CR calculator so that I can fill in the gaps.
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 11 Oct 2014 02:30:56
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2014 : 22:43:52
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Questions
Advancement? This was a 3e method of customizing monsters. It appears to be gone. If so, this is Disappointing to put it mildly. Green dragons, for instance, have 22, 18, 16, or 7 hit dice. Oh yea, dragons only have 4 age categories now. And in fact only four possible hit dice numbers? Go home Monster Manual, you are drunk.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 00:08:10
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Questions
Advancement? This was a 3e method of customizing monsters. It appears to be gone. If so, this is Disappointing to put it mildly. Green dragons, for instance, have 22, 18, 16, or 7 hit dice. Oh yea, dragons only have 4 age categories now. And in fact only four possible hit dice numbers? Go home Monster Manual, you are drunk.
I recall Mearls saying on twitter that this should be in the DMG. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 00:14:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I recall Mearls saying on twitter that this should be in the DMG.
That will be a relief. I want to like this Mearls fellow. Keep doing cool stuff, Mike. 
And thanks for the heads-up Irennan! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 02:22:23
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CR Index for 5e Monster Manual
CR 0 (10 XP)
Awakened Shrub
Baboon
Badger
Bat
Cat
Commoner
Crab
Crawling Claw
Deer
Eagle
Frog
Giant Fire Beetle
Goat
Hawk
Homunculus
Hyena
Jackal
Lemure (Devil)
Lizard
Myconid Sprout
Octopus
Owl
Quipper
Rat
Raven
Scorpion
Sea Horse
Shrieker
Spider
Vulture
Weasel
CR 1/8 (25 XP)
Bandit
Blood Hawk
Camel
Cultist
Flumph
Flying Snake
Giant Crab
Giant Rat
Giant Weasel
Guard
Kobold
Manes (Demon)
Mastiff
Merfolk
Monodrone (Modron)
Mule
Noble
Poisonous Snake
Pony
Slaad Tadpole (Slaad)
Stirge
Tribal Warrior
Twig Blight (Blight)
CR 1/4 (50 XP)
Aarakocra
Acolyte (NPC)
Axe Beak
Blink Dog
Boar
Bullywug
Constrictor Snake
Draft Horse
Dretch (Demon)
Drow
Duodrone (Modron)
Elk
Flying Sword (Animated Object)
Giant Badger
Giant Bat
Giant Centipede
Giant Frog
Giant Lizard
Giant Owl
Giant Poisonous Snake
Giant Wolf Spider
Goblin
Grimlock
Kenku
Kuo-Toa
Needle Blight (Blight)
Panther
Pixie
Pseudodragon
Pteranodon (Dinosaur)
Riding Horse
Skeleton
Sprite
Swarm of Bats
Swarm of Rats
Swarm of Ravens
Troglodyte
Violet Fungus
Winged Kobold (Kobold)
Wolf
Zombie
CR 1/2 (100 XP)
Ape
Black Bear
Cockatrice
Crocodile
Darkmantle
Dust Mephit (Mephit)
Gas Spore
Giant Goat
Giant Sea Horse
Giant Wasp
Gnoll
Gray Ooze (Ooze)
Hobgoblin
Ice Mephit (Mephit)
Jackalwere
Lizardfolk
Magma Mephit (Mephit)
Magmin
Mud Mephit (Mephit)
Myconid Adult
Orc
Piercer
Reef Shark
Rust Monster
Sahuagin
Satyr
Scout
Shadow
Smoke Mephit (Mephit)
Steam Mephit (Mephit)
Svirfneblin (Gnome)
Swarm of Insects
Thug
Tridrone (Modron)
Vine Blight (Blight)
Warhorse
Warhorse Skeleton (Skeleton)
Worg
CR 1 (200 XP)
Animated Armor (Animated Object)
Brass Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Brown Bear
Bugbear
Copper Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Death Dog
Dire Wolf
Dryad
Duergar
Faerie Dragon: red/orange/yellow
Fire Snake (Salamander)
Ghoul
Giant Eagle
Giant Hyena
Giant Octopus
Giant Spider
Giant Toad
Giant Vulture
Goblin Boss
Half-Ogre
Harpy
Hippogriff
Imp (Devil)
Kuo-Toa Whip
Lion
Quadrone (Modron)
Quasit (Demon)
Scarecrow
Specter
Spy
Swarm of Quippers
Thri-Kreen
Tiger
Yuan-ti Pureblood
CR 2 (450 XP)
Allosaurus (Dinosaur)
Ankheg
Awakened Tree
Azer
Bandit Captain
Berserker
Black Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Bronze Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Carrion Crawler
Centaur
Cult Fanatic
Druid
Ettercap
Faerie Dragon: green/blue/indigo/violet
Gargoyle
Gelatinous Cube (Ooze)
Ghast (Ghoul)
Giant Boar
Giant Constrictor Snake
Giant Elk
Gibbering Mouther
Githzerai Monk (Gith)
Gnoll Pack Lord
Green Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Grick
Griffon
Hunter Shark
Intellect Devourer
Lizardfolk Shaman
Merrow
Mimic
Minotaur Skeleton (Skeleton)
Myconid Sovereign
Nothic
Ochre Jelly (Ooze)
Ogre
Ogre Zombie (Zombie)
Orc Eye of Gruumsh
Orog
Pegasus
Pentadrone (Modron)
Peryton
Plesiosaurus (Dinosaur)
Polar Bear
Priest
Quaggoth
Rhinoceros
Rug of Smothering (Animated Object)
Saber-Toothed Tiger
Sahuagin Priestess
Sea Hag
Silver Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Spined Devil (Devil)
Swarm of Poisonous Snakes
Wererat
White Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Will-o-Wisp
CR 3 (700 XP)
Ankylosaurus (Dinosaur)
Basilisk
Bearded Devil (Devil)
Blue Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Bugbear Chief
Displacer Beast
Doppelganger
Giant Scorpion
Githyanki Warrior (Gith)
Gold Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Green Hag (Hag)
Grell
Hell Hound
Hobgoblin Captain
Hook Horror
Killer Whale
Knight
Kuo-Toa Monitor
Manticore
Minotaur
Mummy
Nightmare
Owlbear
Phase Spider
Spectator (Beholder)
Veteran
Water Weird
Werewolf
Wight
Winter Wolf
Yeti
Yuan-ti Malison
CR 4 (1100 XP)
Banshee
Black Pudding (Ooze)
Bone Naga (Naga)
Chuul
Couatl
Elephant
Ettin
Flameskull
Ghost
Gnoll Fang of Yeenoghu
Helmed Horror
Lamia
Lizard King/Queen
Orc War Chief
Red Dragon Wyrmling (Dragon)
Shadow Demon (Demon)
Succubus/Incubus
Wereboar
Weretiger
CR 5 (1800 XP)
Air Elemental (Elemental)
Barbed Devil (Devil)
Barlgura (Demon)
Beholder Zombie
Bulette
Cambion
Drow Elite Warrior
Earth Elemental (Elemental)
Fire Elemental (Elemental)
Flesh Golem (Golem)
Giant Crocodile
Giant Shark
Gladiator
Gorgon
Hill Giant (Giant)
Mezzoloth (Yugoloth)
Night Hag
Otyugh
Red Slaad (Slaad)
Revenant
Roper
Sahuagin Baron
Salamander
Shambling Mound
Triceratops (Dinosaur)
Troll
Umber Hulk
Unicorn
Vampire Spawn
Water Elemental (Elemental)
Werebear
Wraith
Xorn
Young Remorhaz (Remorhaz)
CR 6 (2300 XP)
Chasme (Demon)
Chimera
Cyclops
Drider
Galeb Duhr
Githzerai Zerth (Gith)
Hobgoblin Warlord
Invisible Stalker
Kuo-Toa Archpriest
Mage
Mammoth
Medusa
Vrock (Demon)
Wyvern
Young Brass Dragon (Dragon)
Young White Dragon (Dragon)
CR 7 (2900 XP)
Blue Slaad (Slaad)
Drow Mage
Giant Ape
Grick Alpha
Mind Flayer
Oni
Shield Guardian
Stone Giant (Giant)
Young Black Dragon (Dragon)
Young Copper Dragon (Dragon)
Yuan-ti Abomination
CR 8 (3900 XP)
Assassin
Chain Devil (Devil)
Cloaker
Drow Priestess of Lolth
Fomorian
Frost Giant (Giant)
Githyanki Knight (Gith)
Green Slaad (Slaad)
Hezrou (Demon)
Hydra
Spirit Naga (Naga)
Tyrannosaurus Rex (Dinosaur)
Young Bronze Dragon (Dragon)
Young Green Dragon (Dragon)
CR 9 (5000 XP)
Abominable Yeti (Yeti)
Bone Devil (Devil)
Clay Golem (Golem)
Cloud Giant (Giant)
Fire Giant (Giant)
Glabrezu (Demon)
Gray Slaad (Slaad)
Nycaloth (Yugoloth)
Treant
Young Blue Dragon (Dragon)
Young Silver Dragon (Dragon)
CR 10 (5900 XP)
Aboleth
Death Slaad (Slaad)
Deva (Angel)
Guardian Naga (Naga)
Stone Golem (Golem)
Yochlol (Demon)
Young Gold Dragon (Dragon)
Young Red Dragon (Dragon)
CR 11 (7200 XP)
Behir
Dao (Genie)
Djinni (Genie)
Efreeti (Genie)
Gynosphinx (Sphinx)
Horned Devil (Devil)
Marid (Genie)
Remorhaz
Roc
CR 12 (8400 XP)
Arcanaloth (Yugoloth)
Archmage
Erinyes (Devil)
CR 13 (10000 XP)
Adult Brass Dragon (Dragon)
Adult White Dragon (Dragon)
Beholder
Nalfeshnee (Demon)
Rakshasa
Storm Giant (Giant)
Ultroloth (Yugoloth)
Vampire
CR 14 (11500 XP)
Adult Black Dragon (Dragon)
Adult Copper Dragon (Dragon)
Death Tyrant (Beholder)
Ice Devil (Devil)
CR 15 (13000 XP)
Adult Bronze Dragon (Dragon)
Adult Green Dragon (Dragon)
Mummy Lord
Purple Worm
CR 16 (15000 XP)
Adult Blue Dragon (Dragon)
Adult Silver Dragon (Dragon)
Iron Golem (Golem)
Marilith (Demon)
Planetar (Angel)
CR 17 (18000 XP)
Adult Gold Dragon (Dragon)
Adult Red Dragon (Dragon)
Androsphinx (Sphinx)
Death Knight
Dragon Turtle
Goristro (Demon)
CR 18 (20000 XP)
Demilich
CR 19 (22000 XP)
Balor (Demon)
CR 20 (25000 XP)
Ancient Brass Dragon (Dragon)
Ancient White Dragon (Dragon)
Pit Fiend (Devil)
CR 21 (27500 XP)
Ancient Black Dragon (Dragon)
Ancient Copper Dragon (Dragon)
Lich
Solar (Angel)
CR 22 (30000 XP)
Ancient Bronze Dragon (Dragon)
Ancient Green Dragon (Dragon)
CR 23 (32500 XP)
Ancient Blue Dragon (Dragon)
Ancient Silver Dragon (Dragon)
Empyrean
Kraken
CR 24 (36500 XP)
Ancient Gold Dragon (Dragon)
Ancient Red Dragon (Dragon)
CR 30 (155000 XP)
Tarrasque
Templates
Dracolich
Half-Dragon
Shadow Dragon
Spore Servant
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 11 Oct 2014 02:31:35 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 04:22:21
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| There was a pdf excerpt from the DMG that lists monsters by CR. Most of the customization options are said to be for the DMG as pointed out. I think they left environment vague on purpose. The whole discussion during the playtest was keeping the stats free of culture bias (eg, Dwarves getting a bonus vs giants) so DM's can choose cultural backgrounds. My guess is they are making environments specific to the settings. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 11 Oct 2014 05:32:39 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 05:01:26
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Yea, leaving the environment out had to be a design decision. So far it registers as a mild annoyance for me, but I'm open to seeing what they do with it.
Stuff dealing with monsters belongs in the MM. It doesn't seem necessary or advisable to selectively move some of it to the DMG. But as long as it exists somewhere, then all I need to care about is having a functional index so I can find it when I need it.
Edit: The reason it strikes me as stupid to put the MM CR index in the DMG is that we "know" there will be more than one MM, and they're not reprinting the DMG after each one, so the DMG will have only the first MM's monsters in it. A CR index belongs in each volume of the MM.
I can see putting the Advancement mechanics in the DMG, so that the question of reprinting it in each MM volume doesn't even get brought up. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 11 Oct 2014 05:07:46 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2014 : 05:38:04
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| Aye. I personally kinda am torn. I never used Monsters by CR when I ran 3.5. I just look at what lives in the area and go from there. I don't really want that list taking up space in the DMG, but oh well. I'd rather a pdf I can print on demand that gets updated for every MM grelease. That way, you can look at all the Monsters at once instead of each book one at a time. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2014 : 07:46:24
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Half-Dragon (page 180)
Once again half-dragon is a template, with 10 types corresponding to the base chromatic and metallic dragon colors. They have a breath weapon action.
There are a few important differences, though. Type does not change to dragon; a half-dragon humanoid remains humanoid. Flight is also apparently lost; in 3.5e half-dragons that were at least Large size had wings; this appears to no longer be the case.
One more twist, this one more bizarre. The sample half-dragon is based on a human veteran and a red dragon. The veteran is found on page 350, and has 9 HD. The half-red dragon, however, has 10 HD. There's no instruction to add HD when applying the template. You know who has 10 HD? A wyrmling red dragon (page 98), that's who.
I think a hint is found in the half-dragon breath weapon action chart: Large or smaller half-dragons get the wyrmling's (medium-sized) breath weapon attack, huge half-dragons get the young adult (large) dragon's breath weapon, and gargantuan half-dragons get the adult (huge) dragon's breath weapon. I think we're also supposed to take the better of the two HD values. I don't see any confirmation of this, though... maybe it's just a typo.
This is kinda cool, in the sense that a half-dragon purple worm should of course be tougher than a regular purple worm, but I don't like the sloppiness of the whole thing. The HD of the base creature are brought up to the HD of the dragon, unless the base creature's HD already exceed that of the dragon, so smaller creatures will get a bigger boost than bigger ones. That makes no sense; if we're going to add HD due to a template, it should be a percentage of the base creature's HD. Something like "add 25% HD" or whatever the number is.
And then when you're done with this weird upgrade, a half-dragon griffon (Large) and a half-dragon owl (Tiny) cause the same damage with their breath weapon. Both of those are legal, by the way. A half-red dragon owl has 10 HD and can exhale a 15-foot cone of fire which deals 7d6 damage... and it retains its beast type, not changing to dragon, so it might even be eligible to be a druid PC's animal companion. If we're still doing animal companions; I didn't see anything about it when I glanced through the class description. The half-dragon griffon, despite being much larger than the owl, cannot create a larger or hotter cone of fire. The size of it makes some sense for the griffon; it's ridiculous for the owl, but we have no smaller half-dragons to work with.
So dragon age categories are now just empty words on the page. The only differentiation with any relevance to the game mechanics is size. This becomes apparent when you ask "why is a griffon being matched to a wyrmling dragon, while a purple worm is matched to an adult dragon?" The answer is you're asking the wrong question. You're matching the griffon to a medium dragon, and the purple worm to a huge dragon.
And if you happen to enlarge a "young" dragon, you turn it into an "adult."
Tis a sad day for dragons.
Quibble: Half-red dragon looks like a dragon that happens to be half-red. The proper term would be red half-dragon. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Dec 2014 : 23:18:25
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Follow-up, now that I have the DMG: advancement is far "blurrier" than it was in 3.5e, but ultimately more flexible.
"Defensive CR" is based on hit points, "Offensive CR" is based on average damage per round -- both of these numbers come from a table on page 274 of the DMG. Average the numbers, and uh... that's the monster's CR.
It's all very loose though, since you decide what you want the monster's stats to be.
- "If your monster uses different attack bonuses or save DC's, use the ones that will come up the most often."
- "Round the average up or down..."
- "Creating a monster isn't just a number-crunching exercise. The guidelines in this chapter can help you create monsters, but ... After seeing your monster in action, you might want to adjust the challenge rating up or down based on your experiences."
So basically just put something together, eyeball it, try it out, and see what happens. It's not a cut-and-dried thing; it's estimation and trial and error. I appreciate the flexibility, but it feels a little like tightrope walking without a net. On the other hand, the sense of security offered in 3.5 was a false one -- although the advancement mechanic was much more precise, there was no way of knowing that the resulting number was actually "right" for your players until the encounter was played through. In this edition, they're basically just saying up front: wing it.
Bottom line: "Advancement" as it was in 3.5 doesn't exist in 5e, but it can be approximated. There's more of a process, which can be a good thing. But don't count on it being very quick or painless.
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 14 Dec 2014 23:20:18 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 04:44:39
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| Still reviewing my newly acquired MM, so far I'm a bit disappointed. Dragons need to be retooled methinks as do the 'advancement' rules (which are already being discussed here). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 06:06:01
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Yea, I was actually looking at this again today too. Advancement, as it existed in 3e, is gone. We do have a tedious process for creating new monsters, which can be used to make more/less powerful versions of existing monsters, but it's nowhere near as streamlined as Advancement was. Then again, it seems likely that the new process offers better results, as long as you're not in a rush. I never had much confidence in the CRs I got from 3e Advancement. It was just so cool to get them so easily.
I'm working on the black dragons as an example/exercise to figure out how I feel about the 5e "Create a Monster" process. Translating it into Excel is making it more time-consuming, but I'm hoping it will automate making black dragons for CR 4 or so through 30 without having to go through the process 20+ times. I'll post the results here, when I finish. ETA: July 2018.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 06:27:12
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Still reviewing my newly acquired MM, so far I'm a bit disappointed. Dragons need to be retooled methinks as do the 'advancement' rules (which are already being discussed here).
Were you disappointed with just the dragon-based rules, or something else as well? |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 14:32:08
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Now that I've had a little more time to look into it I'm not quite as disappointed but, honestly, I can't give a solid review just yet as I'm still mainly focused on the DMG at the moment. I'll go with this:
For the most part the artwork is great. Some of them suck golf balls though (the aboleth and the pit fiend in particular aren't very good). But others really rock (the detailing on the animated armor is unbelievable as is the ankheg and I really like the wight). Overall, 3.5 to 4 stars on the artwork.
Some creatures have returned. The water weird (at least I don't recall that monster making an appearance in 3.x). Some things have been 'altered' so to speak. For instance, rather than have a generic war dog we now have the mastiff (detailed in the back of the MM). There is also the slaad tadpole that I think is an interesting addition to the species.
Something I really like are multiple examples of creatures. Example: For the orc you get the base creature, the orc war chief, the orc Eye of Gruumsh and the orog. This is done with several species and this gives you a very plug-and-play option. Granted we got some of that with 3.x but in this MM they seem to go a little further for you.
I pretty much went straight to the dragon entry when I got the book. Xaeyruudh is pretty much spot on with them. There's less flexibility it seems but I think this gets back to simplifying the rules. I'll try to post more later (after I'm done with the DMG). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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rodrigoalcanza
Seeker
Brazil
67 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2015 : 22:15:06
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I enjoyed this Monster Manual. Reminds me of the good times of the 2nd Edition. Perhaps the best ... or almost the Monster Manual 2nd Edition. I enjoyed the book's text. As the statistics, I do not know. I need further testing.
I have a question: I noticed that the monsters have much less magical powers (spell, spell-like abilities) than in previous editions. Especially very powerful monsters like devils, demons, angels, titians and dragons. Your statistics are much simpler and with few spells. Anyone know the reason of this? |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 00:16:37
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quote:
Originally posted by rodrigoalcanza
I enjoyed this Monster Manual. Reminds me of the good times of the 2nd Edition. Perhaps the best ... or almost the Monster Manual 2nd Edition. I enjoyed the book's text. As the statistics, I do not know. I need further testing.
I have a question: I noticed that the monsters have much less magical powers (spell, spell-like abilities) than in previous editions. Especially very powerful monsters like devils, demons, angels, titians and dragons. Your statistics are much simpler and with few spells. Anyone know the reason of this?
As with many things, I cannot speak in crunchy details. That's not my strong point. But I will note this much. The Monsters, if played right, are deadly. I haven't personally used the more powerful monsters you mentioned yet, but my level 5 PC's are terrified of a pack of Kobolds. I'd daresay the more powerful monsters don't have tons of Magical Abilities because they don't need them.
Overall, the numbers slimming down is because of the Bounded Accuracy mechanic.
The numbers and stats are smaller as a side effect of what, in my opinion, is a brilliant mechanical decision. It's certainly made my job easier.
If you want to add spells to your monsters, guidelines are in the DMG to do so, and instructions on how to adjust and calculate your new XP and CR totals.
Hope that helps! |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 01:47:28
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quote:
Originally posted by rodrigoalcanza
I have a question: I noticed that the monsters have much less magical powers (spell, spell-like abilities) than in previous editions. Especially very powerful monsters like devils, demons, angels, titians and dragons. Your statistics are much simpler and with few spells. Anyone know the reason of this?
I'm not an employee of Wizards of the Coast, or Hasbro, so I don't have any official answers, but I can say two things.
First, I agree with Delwa that the more powerful monsters don't need the extra spells in this ruleset. This is partly due to 5e establishing a level cap of 20 on PCs. No hard limit on monster CR, but the tarrasque is clearly intended to be among the most difficult mortal-ish monsters in the world. In 3e, there were no real level limits. Regardless of whether anyone actually played level 40 campaigns, it was possible. In 5e, with PCs reaching a maximum of level 20, the entire system is scaled downward. A hypothetical monster that was CR 28 in 3e and gets dropped to CR 19 in 5e will obviously lose a few special abilities. Although CR is calculated differently now, so the adjustments are not going to be consistent.
Second, 5e is a simpler ruleset. The whole game is simpler than 3e was. "Bounded accuracy" is one reason/excuse. Many of the bonuses that existed in 3e (sacred/profane, etc) have vanished. AC values are going to be lower. Ability scores are lower, including Con, which means HP totals are dropping. Saving throw bonuses and DCs are lower. The goal seems to be to streamline the processes of character creation, combat, and whatever else, ideally in the interest of more roleplay and less puzzling over stats.
Edit!
quote:
Originally posted by rodrigoalcanza
I enjoyed this Monster Manual. Reminds me of the good times of the 2nd Edition.
The 2e Monster Manual was, in my opinion, the pinnacle of Monster Manuals, and none before or since have approached its greatness. Basically one thing made it the best: the loose pages, designed for 3-ring binders. I despised the black & white art, but the freedom to organize the monsters in any order I want, insert and remove pages at will, and control the size of the monster collection I have to lug around make this the ideal design for me.
I know some scribes hated it because pages can get lost or spilled on or gnawed by pets or kids, but keeping track of your monsters is your responsibility and the freedom is worth the effort in my opinion. If you had a problem with pages disappearing or being ruined, you could always (1) put them in sheet protectors, and (2) photocopy and keep the originals in a locking file cabinet. |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 22 Jan 2015 01:53:49 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 04:09:29
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
The 2e Monster Manual was, in my opinion, the pinnacle of Monster Manuals, and none before or since have approached its greatness. Basically one thing made it the best: the loose pages, designed for 3-ring binders. I despised the black & white art, but the freedom to organize the monsters in any order I want, insert and remove pages at will, and control the size of the monster collection I have to lug around make this the ideal design for me.
Just a minor correction... The Monstrous Compendium, and its first dozen or so appendices, were the loose leaf ones. The Monstrous Manual was a hardcover. There were some later softbound monster books, as well.
I was always a bit puzzled by the fact that the first and fourth volumes of the Monstrous Compendium had binders, and the rest didn't....
I organized mine to have the generic, non-setting specific (and Planescape, I believe) stuff in the first binder, the setting specific but not FR or Spelljammer stuff in the second binder, all of the FR appendices (including Al-Qadim and Kara-Tur) and stuff from FR sets in a binder I bought myself, and lastly, a smaller separate binder for the Spelljammer stuff. Other than maps from boxed sets, those binders were the only game products I didn't lose in the fire -- though I did lose all of the separators with random artwork, that were in the first several appendices. I had compiled those into another binder that was elsewhere. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Jan 2015 04:09:55 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jan 2015 : 06:53:08
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| Right, I was mixing up the names. I think I sniffed in derision at the Monstrous Manual when it appeared on shelves, wondering why they had bothered and failing to realize that the genius of the MC had gone unappreciated at TSR and would soon go the way of the dodo. Sad day. |
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Monster Manual 5e questions and review
