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Taliesen
Acolyte
9 Posts |
 Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 21:14:17
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I'm planning to start a new campaign this weekend, trying out the 5E rules with some friends. Since the new FR setting isn't out yet, and I want to run my own adventures rather than the line that's been released so far, we're going to go with a 2E/3E era setting, using the new rules. I'm gonna start them out in Waterdeep, in the Dock Ward, and for one reason or another this came up while I was planning things.
How would kobolds be viewed in the Realms? I remember ages ago the character Deekin from NWN, who seemed to be fairly well tolerated in a civilized area. How are kobolds canonically viewed, and would it make sense to have some running around the Docks, particularly in the more shady areas?
I'd considered an encounter with a kobold soothsayer in a darkened alleyway (Manysteps Alley, described by Volo and other sourcebooks), if they choose a certain path 
Would this be plausible, or should I stick to the main races? I guess this raises the more general question of how monster races in peaceful settings might exist, particularly urban ones, in the Realms.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4692 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 21:26:02
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Kobolds tend to be worst as vermin then goblins as I recall, though less feared then orcs.
Over the generations have changed a little or much concerning Kobolds. From a dog yelping humanoid they became Dragonkin. *shrugs*
There clearly are societies that will accept kobolds, though orcs and goblins only had in the past accepted as slaves.
Waterdeep might accept them as dock workers. Hey they might even have legal rights there.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Taliesen
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 21:31:43
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| It's by no means essential to the plot, I just thought it might be an interesting touch, to get across just how strange and rough life can be in the Docks. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 21:41:39
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| If you're allowing video game content, I believe Deekin became a shop owner in either Neverwinter or Waterdeep. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Taliesen
Acolyte
9 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 21:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
If you're allowing video game content, I believe Deekin became a shop owner in either Neverwinter or Waterdeep.
I imagine we'll be using whatever fits and makes for interesting play. But the real question is, is something like that actually plausible in the proper Realms, or is it... creative license? |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 23:04:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Taliesen
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
If you're allowing video game content, I believe Deekin became a shop owner in either Neverwinter or Waterdeep.
I imagine we'll be using whatever fits and makes for interesting play. But the real question is, is something like that actually plausible in the proper Realms, or is it... creative license?
It's the realms. ANYTHING is possible :-) |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2014 : 23:42:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
It's the realms. ANYTHING is possible
This. I can definitely see kobold "wharf rats" in Dock Ward. The humans would try to take advantage of them, but those who push too far are soon found lying on their faces, covered with small knife holes. Kobolds running along the planks and ropes, scampering up the rigging to repair sails and paint the crow's nests, etc. There should be at least one tavern that's been strongarmed into allowing nonhumans... probably several of them. The food and drink at these places might shift a little... most dock fare is gross by refined standards, but a tavern frequented by kobold dock workers is in a class by itself. A peculiar type of ale, maybe made by gnomes nearby and not overly popular among them but happily sold in bulk to certain merchants who then take it to waterdeep. This ale is cheap because the ingredients can be easily grown in gardens, and it tastes like mud and smells like fresh rabbit droppings, but it's got a potent kick for small-size creatures. And then of course rat stew... lots of rats available for the shootin, just south of Waterdeep. A tavern that serves kobolds might be the only place in Dock Ward that always has tons of meat in every dish they serve, and sells it cheap, but it's obviously best not to ask where it comes from. Maybe a burnt building has been taken over by kobolds, who grabbed some half-rotten boards and banged up their own version of a boarding house, with a leaky roof and holes in the walls and 4 foot ceilings. The property owner who tries to evict them will likely be one of the bodies found laying in the mud.
Hope you have fun with whatever you decide to do. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 01:35:53
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Kobolds are small, unintimidating, annoying, viewed as vermin, they growl and yelp like those little ankle-biting dogs. I think they were originally (I'm talking circa Gygax's little booklet pre-AD&D days) intended to serve as a sort of nemesis to halflings. PCs and NPCs alike view kobolds with scorn and derision, as pitifully abject little objects of comedy. The 2E PHBR10: Complete Book of Humanoids presented rules for generating kobold PCs, inferior to any other race in basically every measurable capacity, but possessing one uniquely special racial ability: the kobold will typically be utterly ignored in combat while adversaries will tend to focus their attacks against what they view as threatening targets. Says a lot.
The only thing kobolds have going for them is numbers. Alone, they are cowardly and weak and constantly fearful of the "big" races. In groups, they become bold and belligerent and bullying, especially if they have a strong (ie, non-kobold) leader or some magical trophy which makes them feel like they have an advantage. In vast hordes, where they possess overwhelming numbers, they actually become warlike and ferocious - alas, their not-at-all-cunning strategy is invariably some version of the "Kobold Wave" (which produces astounding losses).
Kobolds vs gnomes have strong racial antipathies towards each other, much as do dwarves vs orcs. Lone kobolds living in Waterdeep might be targeted by gnomish hostility (ranging from unreasonable arbitrary bylaw-violation fines to late-night vigilante burnings). Groups of kobolds living in Waterdeep might attract similar attention from groups of gnomes. Good opportunities to hook PCs into adventure, especially if you play on your players' anti-kobold expectations (and, let's be blunt with words here - their anti-kobold racism). Remember that kobolds are notoriously stupid, even dumber than orcs and goblins, but individual kobolds might possess remarkable intelligence and abilities. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 13 Sep 2014 01:40:57 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 01:51:20
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| Yeah, I agree with Ayrik, I don't see kobolds being accepted in most areas, UNLESS they can be abused by the society. So, in societies where no self-respecting gnome community will take up residence, kobolds might prosper for their ability to manipulate small objects. Like gnomes, they do have a keen mind for traps, which might be manipulated to working in and repairing sewers in places like Calimshan (and the Calishites would probably consider themselves "elite" for accepting kobolds within their society). In places like Thay, I see them being accepted, but only as slave labor... who when they die can be used to feed their other humanoids... they probably let them breed and periodically send in troops to gather the adult population (and thus, the kobolds of Thay are probably less intelligent than kobolds of other areas of the realms who have adults to learn from). Young kobolds might be imported into areas infested with rats and other vermin to control the population. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 02:34:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Taliesen
I'm planning to start a new campaign this weekend, trying out the 5E rules with some friends. Since the new FR setting isn't out yet, and I want to run my own adventures rather than the line that's been released so far, we're going to go with a 2E/3E era setting, using the new rules. I'm gonna start them out in Waterdeep, in the Dock Ward, and for one reason or another this came up while I was planning things.
How would kobolds be viewed in the Realms? I remember ages ago the character Deekin from NWN, who seemed to be fairly well tolerated in a civilized area. How are kobolds canonically viewed, and would it make sense to have some running around the Docks, particularly in the more shady areas?
I'd considered an encounter with a kobold soothsayer in a darkened alleyway (Manysteps Alley, described by Volo and other sourcebooks), if they choose a certain path
Would this be plausible, or should I stick to the main races? I guess this raises the more general question of how monster races in peaceful settings might exist, particularly urban ones, in the Realms.
You might consider working in Mongrelmen. I could see them being totally viable in the Dock Ward. Opens up quite a few more possibilities than a kobold IMO. Could also be a playable race. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 04:45:39
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In 3.5e, kobolds have the same average intelligence as humans. The arguments against having kobolds in Dock Ward are somewhat valid, except that this is Dock Ward we're talking about. There is no organized law enforcement. Anything that can survive here can thrive here. And kobolds can "dig in" (literally into the ground under the docks and behind buildings when necessary) and survive. Their likely-shorter lifespan means quick proliferation.
I'm not saying kobolds should be in Waterdeep. Just that they could. |
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 05:34:11
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| In one of my fics, one of the characters is Dragonborn/Halfing and gets tetchy when you mistake her for a Kobold. There's a lot of weird kids in it. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11993 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 14:03:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
In one of my fics, one of the characters is Dragonborn/Halfing and gets tetchy when you mistake her for a Kobold. There's a lot of weird kids in it.
The poor Halfling woman giving birth to that..... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 13 Sep 2014 : 21:45:06
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Kobolds and mongrelmen seem to fit similar underniches in human cities. Maybe throw in a meazel and perhaps a were-rat, form a small street gang, eh? Dock Ward almost invites some kind of semi-aquatic humanoid associations, too.
An idea would be for the disgusting little kobold to have a big buddy to toady up to, perhaps even a very big buddy like an half-ogre? The kobold could provide the "brains" in this symbiotic pairing. I'm almost imagining a hard-bargaining kobold loan-shark, lol.
Alternately, he could just be, say, a 7th level thief/beggar/scavenger sort with uncanny knowledge of the Dock Ward and an astonishing ability to hide from the world. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Roseweave
Learned Scribe
Ireland
212 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2014 : 03:58:16
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Roseweave
In one of my fics, one of the characters is Dragonborn/Halfing and gets tetchy when you mistake her for a Kobold. There's a lot of weird kids in it.
The poor Halfling woman giving birth to that.....
She's a harlot so she's had all sorts of things up there. |
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Kobolds in the Realms
