| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 05:21:54
|
...In all its various forms and usages.
Anyway, my contribution is a question:
Can someone using wild shape transform into a creature with a template,(now this is the important part)as long as they can wild shape into creatures with the same type as the templated creature after templating?
I know the answer to this is out there, but I'm not one for finding it right now.
|
Edited by - Arivia on 22 Feb 2004 15:28:36
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 05:39:04
|
| I can't figure out any reason why not . . . just so long as the creature in question was a natural one. That is, undead are obviously out. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
 |
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 05:47:58
|
| I was specifically asking the question to reference such things as if a shifter with either of the Dragon Wild Shape feats(Draconomicon and ELH) could change into a half-dragon or such. For some reason, I thought that there was an Undead Wild Shape feat presented in the ELH, but I guess it was only in HotU. Thanks for the response, Bookwyrm. |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 05:56:42
|
You're welcome.
Unfortunately, for the Dragon Wild Shape, it's limited to a "legal" list. Your DM (or you, as the DM) could add more, but that's what this feat says. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 06:02:23
|
| Oh, I broke that one open a long time ago. Actually, I should probably post my variant in the Skills and Feats section of the website, as it is quite different... |
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 06:12:15
|
By all means. I always like to see a well-made feat. Or spell. Or item . . . .  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 06:42:35
|
| Bookwyrm, it's now up here. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 12:25:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
...In all its various forms and usages.
Anyway, my contribution is a question:
Can someone using wild shape transform into a creature with a template,(now this is the important part)as long as they can wild shape into creatures with the same type as the templated creature after templating?[/i]
I know the answer to this is out there, but I'm not one for finding it right now.
I really can't see how there'd be a problem with this, unless like the Bookwyrm said, it was an undead creature/template...Although these new templates that detail half-undead, and living vampires are making decisions like this very difficult. Also, there are a number of magical creature templates you might want to watch out for as well...I think there's one detailed in the Underdark[/i] tome.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 14:23:36
|
Hmm... browsing through my copy of the Draconomicon, I couldn't locate a Feat that allows to take the shape of a dragon. There is however a Supernatural Ability (SU) that approximates what is mentioned above (page 133) - if I missed an entry, please let me know the page number. (Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability’s effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells.)
Going to focus on semantics here:
Alter Self: You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size.
Polymorph: This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin.
Shapechange: This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type)
Templates: Certain creatures have no type but are instead created by adding a "template" to an existing creature.
In the above definition of a Template it is stated that a templated creature has no type, and therefore cannot be assumed as a shape in either the ploymorph or shapechange spells, unless it would be specifically included (a reference that I have not been able to find.)
My ruling as a DM to your question Ariva, would be based on the above and be a No.
|
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 15:18:39
|
Page 105 for Dragon Wild Shape, Mumadar.
As for semantics, you could argue that the templated creature gains a type when templated. That is a very odd definition, and certainly does contradict some of what has been printed since. |
|
|
|
Mumadar Ibn Huzal
Master of Realmslore
1338 Posts |
Posted - 22 Feb 2004 : 15:24:53
|
Thanks for the page reference Ariva - the book is missing a good index.Reading through it, it doesn't change anything to what I posted earlier, since the feat is based on Shapechange (SU)
|
|
|
|
Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2004 : 01:11:11
|
| I think I'll have to side with Mumadar there. I didn't take a look at any glossaries. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 23 Feb 2004 : 08:23:58
|
| Something came up during a session today that threatens to derail this concept: the paragon template. Any thoughts on how to resolve the issue there, short of completely banning the template? |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2004 : 09:41:45
|
| The Epic Level Handbook. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 02:16:34
|
Well, after now looking over the 'Paragon' template...I can see why you feel it's a threat to your idea. However, I don't think you would have to entirely ban the template, unless of course the whole idea of a mythical First Creature doesn't fit into your campaign. This template seems to fit more into line with the more primordial, less defined world, something the Realms is not.
The determination to ban the template should be more of a campaign issue rather than a DM decision.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 06:54:06
|
| It's not a question of campaign suitability(no problem there), but rather a problem of game balance. |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 25 Feb 2004 : 13:55:04
|
If that's the case, then why not simply tone down some of the features and abilities of the 'Paragon' template so that it prevents such an inbalance from occuring. One of the core rulebooks (or maybe it was in the ELHB) even talks about the steps necessary to balance a template so that it can be fitted into many different campaigns.
The process is similar to that of balancing the abilities and racial traits of newly created races. I'll find the section of the book that talks about this.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 16:28:26
|
Great Reader Arivia,
Out of curiosity, what did that link go to? I was going to check that out. 
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Bookwyrm, it's now up here.
|
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 05:28:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Great Reader Arivia,
Out of curiosity, what did that link go to? I was going to check that out.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Bookwyrm, it's now up here.
Arivia, like most of those in this discussion, is no longer active here. She was absent for a while, returned briefly, and is absent once more.
As for the link, the overall discussion is here, and the specific reference Arivia was making is a little over halfway down this page.
(Man, it's been so long, I'd forgotten that there was some change and all the old links broke! I don't think I was even married when that happened!)
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 09:25:23
|
:P
This would be more of a reincarnate scroll than a resurrect scroll I think :P
|
|
|
|
cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 14:31:26
|
Master Rupert,
A true follower of Denier you are, good sir! Thank you for those links.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Great Reader Arivia,
Out of curiosity, what did that link go to? I was going to check that out.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
Bookwyrm, it's now up here.
Arivia, like most of those in this discussion, is no longer active here. She was absent for a while, returned briefly, and is absent once more.
As for the link, the overall discussion is here, and the specific reference Arivia was making is a little over halfway down this page.
(Man, it's been so long, I'd forgotten that there was some change and all the old links broke! I don't think I was even married when that happened!)
|
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
|
|
|
cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 14:32:11
|
Master Mage,
haha...I would have to agree with you there. Reincarnate seems much more apropos.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
:P
This would be more of a reincarnate scroll than a resurrect scroll I think :P
|
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Wild Shape...
