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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 14:28:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
It's 5th edition and they still haven't removed Bigby-and-company's names from a bunch of spells. By my estimation Greyhawk has more representation than any other setting. 
Actually, didn't they do that back in 3rd edition? I recall them stripping the names from a bunch of spells, and most of those names were from Greyhawk.
They did for the SRD. The 3.5 PHB still called spells like Bigby's Fist by the Greyhawk names. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 18:18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
It's 5th edition and they still haven't removed Bigby-and-company's names from a bunch of spells. By my estimation Greyhawk has more representation than any other setting.
Actually, didn't they do that back in 3rd edition? I recall them stripping the names from a bunch of spells, and most of those names were from Greyhawk.
They did for the SRD. The 3.5 PHB still called spells like Bigby's Fist by the Greyhawk names.
Didn't the Spell Compendium also remove all the names? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 19:16:37
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Not sure. Maybe, but then I would just observe that it didn't "stick" and the PH which introduces players to the game still uses the Greyhawk names. I don't hate Mordenkainen, et al... I just don't think spells in the PH should have names attached. Maybe it's WotC's way of paying homage to Gary; I dunno.
I'll try to get back in Sage's good graces by converting some old Greyhawk modules/hooks to 5e. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 20:15:21
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
I just don't think spells in the PH should have names attached.
I disagree. I think it makes the spells more flavorful to have a name attached, especially when there is a common theme, like with the Bigby spells. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 20:48:15
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I'll agree somewhat with the theme part, because I kinda like themed spells. But I'll stand by the names being too world-specific for the PH. When the author's name is attached to the spell, particularly when it's an oddly specific spell like Evard's black tentacles or Otto's irresistible dance, it belongs in Pages from the Mages. The PH should cover the bases with 2-3 spells from each school for each level; no names. Expansions of the spell list should follow in other world-specific products, and I look forward to seeing the relevant name/date/place lore there.
Nothing stops me from ignoring Bigby's name, but referencing a specific mage in the spell name says clearly that this spell came from a specific place and time. Is this spell available in a campaign which is set in a different world, before the named caster was born? Easily decided, but the point is that it's even easier to avoid the issue entirely by not putting somebody's name on the spell. Magic missile can be Minath's unerring bolts in my Waterdeep campaign, Abanalo's invisible fists in my Shining South campaign, and Zin's claws in my Al-Qadim campaign, and even though their function is the same I can easily introduce minor tweaks (colors, sounds, material components) to help the players suspend disbelief and accept that different areas of the world have entirely different spell lists. Bigby's grasping hand pretty much has to be somebody's grasping hand in every campaign, and it will be obvious to everyone with a PH that they're all the same spell.
Flavor belongs in world-specific books. In the core rules, generic is better than specific in my opinion, but I know mileage may vary.  |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 04 Sep 2014 20:50:29 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 20:49:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
It's 5th edition and they still haven't removed Bigby-and-company's names from a bunch of spells. By my estimation Greyhawk has more representation than any other setting.
Actually, didn't they do that back in 3rd edition? I recall them stripping the names from a bunch of spells, and most of those names were from Greyhawk.
They did for the SRD. The 3.5 PHB still called spells like Bigby's Fist by the Greyhawk names.
Didn't the Spell Compendium also remove all the names?
A quick glance shows the Bigby Spells retain their name for the Compendium. I personally like it. It adds flavor and encourages players to think of how they can leave a lasting impression on the world besides burning the village down. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4447 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 21:29:32
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| The Spell Compendium did, however, remove all the names from the Forgotten Realms like Laeral's Cutting Hand (to just Cutting Hand). |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 21:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
The Spell Compendium did, however, remove all the names from the Forgotten Realms like Laeral's Cutting Hand (to just Cutting Hand).
Now that's just insulting, and mystifying.  |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3807 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2014 : 22:46:09
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| Dw, the SC has an index that includes all the original names of spells along their generalized ones. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2014 : 04:59:53
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Well, it's not really my intent to begrudge your affection for Greyhawk. Buuttt...
Putting GH in the PH would go against their stated intent of making the Realms the flagship setting.
Oh, see, I didn't actually know of this. I thought it was just standard for all core editions of D&D that GREYHAWK was THE SETTING to have detailing core game elements. I must have missed the announcement about the Realms being made the core setting.
That's kind of neat, now, and does help to explain the presence of so much FR material in the PHB. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2014 : 08:42:02
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| I think this is largely due to Ed still being around, while Gary is not. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36812 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2014 : 13:31:26
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I think this is largely due to Ed still being around, while Gary is not.
I disagree. I think it's because the Realms is the only setting that has remained in print all this time, and it is still supported. It's all about sales. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2014 : 14:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I think this is largely due to Ed still being around, while Gary is not.
I disagree. I think it's because the Realms is the only setting that has remained in print all this time, and it is still supported. It's all about sales.
Indeed. And I think the relative sales success of "The Sundering" series has gone a long way toward reinforcing that current trend in the RPG market as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2014 : 17:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
I must have missed the announcement about the Realms being made the core setting.
Dug up the reference I saw:
quote:
”The Forgotten Realms is our flagship setting for the new edition, however we are supporting, or will support, all of our key settings in the future.” That includes Ebberon, says Perkins, and “you are going to see more Ravenloft stuff very soon.”
Source: http://web.archive.org/web/20140903080517/http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2014/04/11/secrets-from-the-tyranny-of-dragons/
I tried to make a link out of it but I think the second http messes it up... you can, however, just copy/paste the entire url into the address bar.
I predict that "all our core settings" will still mean just FR and Eberron, and they'll bring back modrons (mentioned a couple lines down in the same article) as core monsters rather than revamping Planescape. The Ravenloft mention also suggests that they will do something with the Mists and maybe some monsters, rather than a new Ravenloft product line.
If they were going to bring back Planescape or Ravenloft, the quote would have been something like "we're bringing back a couple of key settings including Planescape and Ravenloft." The fact that the settings were mentioned kinda obliquely without really being included seems significant. I'm reading into it, but time will tell. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31792 Posts |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2014 : 13:10:43
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You guys might hate my games. There are three distinct aspects of play. You can master one of them if you want, but you could ultimately being hurting yourself, and the party.
Combat
Exploration
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Player's Handbook
