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Originally posted by Brian R. James

This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.

I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.

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Originally posted by Delwa

Just a random fact to point out. In the Basic 5e pdf, elves have 60' Darkvision. Unless I've missed some errata, mechanically speaking, suddenly becoming blind won't be a problem for elves. Drow have a longer range on their Darkvision in 5e, if I remember correctly.

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Originally posted by Naeryndam


Wow how did I forget that?

Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.

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You know, now that I think about it, if the Sharn counted among them great mages from the Crown Wars and ancient civilizations such as Netheril, Earlann etc, Rhymanthiin would probably contain the oldest and most powerful mages in the realms. A grand Mage of Mierytar would be able to trump Telamont or Larloch. How has this place not gotten more attention?

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Originally posted by Irennan

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Originally posted by Naeryndam


Wow how did I forget that?

Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.

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Miyeritar was decimated with the Dark disaster. With Eilistraee weakened due to the death of so many of her followers (dark elves of Miyeritar were mainly her and Sehanine's followers AFAIK) and the descent applied upon them, the few survivors fled in the Underdark and, in >10000 years, their blood got mixed with Ilythiiri elves. So I really can't see many ''pure Miyeritari'' still around. Very few, likely.
The % of drow population worshiping Eilistraee and thus changed is -according to Ed- about 20, and mostly on the surface. The ''pure miyeritari'' and the ones in the Underdark, even with darkvision, probably were hunted and killed by other drow.

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Originally posted by Naeryndam

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Originally posted by Irennan

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Originally posted by Naeryndam


Wow how did I forget that?

Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.

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Miyeritar was decimated with the Dark disaster. With Eilistraee weakened due to the death of so many of her followers (dark elves of Miyeritar were mainly her and Sehanine's followers AFAIK) and the descent applied upon them, the few survivors fled in the Underdark and, in >10000 years, their blood got mixed with Ilythiiri elves. So I really can't see many ''pure Miyeritari'' still around. Very few, likely.
The % of drow population worshiping Eilistraee and thus changed is -according to Ed- about 20, and mostly on the surface. The ''pure miyeritari'' and the ones in the Underdark, even with darkvision, probably were hunted and killed by other drow.

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So you're saying there are basically only 30-50 actual dark elves in the realms right now? I'm trying to place an actual number on it, not argue. I'm not doubting you, if Ed said 20 it's 20, but doesn't that seem awfully few? We're talking about a reborn race here. Isn't there any way there are more dark elves around?

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Originally posted by Irennan

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Originally posted by Naeryndam

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Originally posted by Irennan

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Originally posted by Naeryndam


Wow how did I forget that?

Very true, I was more talking about the political effects etc. I figure at this point there are probably still a ton of mierytari elves around. Could be wrong and it might be just a few, but I'd like to think it was around a quarter of the Drow population. Mierytar was no empire, but we're talking about an entire realm here.

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Miyeritar was decimated with the Dark disaster. With Eilistraee weakened due to the death of so many of her followers (dark elves of Miyeritar were mainly her and Sehanine's followers AFAIK) and the descent applied upon them, the few survivors fled in the Underdark and, in >10000 years, their blood got mixed with Ilythiiri elves. So I really can't see many ''pure Miyeritari'' still around. Very few, likely.
The % of drow population worshiping Eilistraee and thus changed is -according to Ed- about 20, and mostly on the surface. The ''pure miyeritari'' and the ones in the Underdark, even with darkvision, probably were hunted and killed by other drow.

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So you're saying there are basically only 30-50 actual dark elves in the realms right now? I'm trying to place an actual number on it, not argue. I'm not doubting you, if Ed said 20 it's 20, but doesn't that seem awfully few? We're talking about a reborn race here. Isn't there any way there are more dark elves around?

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I meant 20%, sorry-

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Originally posted by Naeryndam

Ah I see, I misread no problem. Stupid job taking my concentration away from important things... That makes a lot more sense.

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Originally posted by Naeryndam

I agree and I understand where you're coming from. I doubt much will be done with the reborn dark elves myself.

My whole reason for bringing this up is that to me, the raising of Rhymanthiin is as huge as the return of Thultanthar and opens up all kinds of exciting possibilities. Shade got a bunch of books and source material, the new dark elves get virtually nothing. So here we have a reborn race, new magnificent hidden city and the return of exceptionally powerful mages 10's of thousands of years old and it seems like it is being treated as a footnote. Makes no sense to me. I was curious if anyone knew if this was going to be expanded upon.

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Originally posted by Brian R. James

This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.

I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

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Originally posted by Brian R. James

This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.

I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.

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Hmmm, so it was foreseen that the tree of souls should be planted somewhere where it snows in the evermeet book. The tree ended up planted in Myth Drannor (or thereabouts). Could it be that in the aftermath of the sundering, a high magic ritual is cast to displace the land surrounding the tree of souls to Rhymanthiin?

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Originally posted by Brian R. James

This scenario was explored in the Menzoberranzan sourcebook. Eric Menge and myself laid out the events that transpired in the city during the aftermath of Eilistraee's redemption of the dark elves. Alas it was cut in editing.

I too would really like to see Rhymanthiin explored in more detail. It stands to reason that many of the redeemed dark elves that survived would seek refuge there. As it's been over a hundred years since the Hidden City of Hope returned to Faerūn, I expect much the region of the High Moor around Rhymanthiin to be verdant forest and grassland once more. I really hope whoever is designing the 5E Realms map takes that in consideration.

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Hello everyone! I'm Eric Menge, the secondary author for Menzoberranzan with Brian James. My apologies for not posting earlier, but I didn't have anything I was able to share until the book was published. No that it had, I hope you will take a look at it. The art is incredible and there are many great bits in the book including a Worth system which could be used to track how drow fall out of favor of Lolth and into favor of Eilistraee.

I was in charge of the Eilistraee portion of the book. I asked (begged might be a more accurate term) for that section, because I love the Dark Maiden and wanted her to have a prominent role in the book, since she has had such a prominent presence in the Forgotten Realms. As Brian said on the Candlekeep forum, the section that addressed Eilistraee and Vhaeraun heading into the future did not make the final cut. We worked very hard on it and fought as hard as we could to include it. Ultimately, the decision lay with the editors.

Since I'm not privy to WotC's future plans, it may be because they are bringing all the gods back through the Sundering. In addition, WotC is freeing the Forgotten Realms temporally. They will be supporting products in a variety of time periods. In most of those time periods, Eilistraee will still be alive and a power in the Realms, so you may see new lore that way.

While I cannot share the text of what I submitted to WotC, Irennan is pretty much spot on in our idea of how to keep consistent with the old lore while returning Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. The Masked Lady sacrificed her divinity and returned as an archfey -- actually two archfey. Vhaeraun and Eilistraee lost their names in the sacrifice and only had their ancestral titles of the Mask on the Moon and the Dancing Maiden. While the archfey cannot grant spells, PCs would directly interact with the spirits that were Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. They ruled from the Grotto of SIlver and Shadow (the map was included in the map pack), which has fallen into ruin in the centuries that they were gods. So drow servants of the Lord and Lady have two great tasks -- fight the oppression of Lolth while reclaiming a feydark realm from the wilderness and evil fey such as the fomorians. This gives judges two great campaigns - one based entirely in the feydark and dealing with other fey and one in the Underdark continuing the fight against Lolth and her minions.

While the archfey cannot grant spells, followers of the archfey would directly interact with the spirits that were once Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Their followers would be far fewer than before, making every PC who serves the Lady and the Lord that much more important. Also, servants of Lolth are searching for the hidden Grotto and hunting the Lady and the Lord's followers constantly. Being a servant of the archfey would be a harrowing experience of a rebel, fighting overwhelming odds.

I second Brian's recommendation to let WotC know that you want Eilistraee content.If another people ask for it, they may publish the cut content as a DDI article. I still have all the text and could put it together into DDI format inside of a week.

I wrote up many of the art orders. The drow in the white dress is a follower of the Dancing Maiden. Brian and I do care about your little corner of the fanbase. Always have; always will.

Eric

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Originally posted by Duneth Despana

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Hello everyone! I'm Eric Menge, the secondary author for Menzoberranzan with Brian James. My apologies for not posting earlier, but I didn't have anything I was able to share until the book was published. No that it had, I hope you will take a look at it. The art is incredible and there are many great bits in the book including a Worth system which could be used to track how drow fall out of favor of Lolth and into favor of Eilistraee.

I was in charge of the Eilistraee portion of the book. I asked (begged might be a more accurate term) for that section, because I love the Dark Maiden and wanted her to have a prominent role in the book, since she has had such a prominent presence in the Forgotten Realms. As Brian said on the Candlekeep forum, the section that addressed Eilistraee and Vhaeraun heading into the future did not make the final cut. We worked very hard on it and fought as hard as we could to include it. Ultimately, the decision lay with the editors.

Since I'm not privy to WotC's future plans, it may be because they are bringing all the gods back through the Sundering. In addition, WotC is freeing the Forgotten Realms temporally. They will be supporting products in a variety of time periods. In most of those time periods, Eilistraee will still be alive and a power in the Realms, so you may see new lore that way.

While I cannot share the text of what I submitted to WotC, Irennan is pretty much spot on in our idea of how to keep consistent with the old lore while returning Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. The Masked Lady sacrificed her divinity and returned as an archfey -- actually two archfey. Vhaeraun and Eilistraee lost their names in the sacrifice and only had their ancestral titles of the Mask on the Moon and the Dancing Maiden. While the archfey cannot grant spells, PCs would directly interact with the spirits that were Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. They ruled from the Grotto of SIlver and Shadow (the map was included in the map pack), which has fallen into ruin in the centuries that they were gods. So drow servants of the Lord and Lady have two great tasks -- fight the oppression of Lolth while reclaiming a feydark realm from the wilderness and evil fey such as the fomorians. This gives judges two great campaigns - one based entirely in the feydark and dealing with other fey and one in the Underdark continuing the fight against Lolth and her minions.

While the archfey cannot grant spells, followers of the archfey would directly interact with the spirits that were once Eilistraee and Vhaeraun. Their followers would be far fewer than before, making every PC who serves the Lady and the Lord that much more important. Also, servants of Lolth are searching for the hidden Grotto and hunting the Lady and the Lord's followers constantly. Being a servant of the archfey would be a harrowing experience of a rebel, fighting overwhelming odds.

I second Brian's recommendation to let WotC know that you want Eilistraee content.If another people ask for it, they may publish the cut content as a DDI article. I still have all the text and could put it together into DDI format inside of a week.

I wrote up many of the art orders. The drow in the white dress is a follower of the Dancing Maiden. Brian and I do care about your little corner of the fanbase. Always have; always will.

Eric

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Just thought this deserved to be posted here too.

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