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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
77 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Jul 2014 : 22:12:17
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Hello all.
I am currently reading Phil Athan's Annihilation, which is the fifth installment of War of the Spider Queen (WOTSQ). I am very much enjoying this series. It's a nice break from Drizzt.
Anyways, back in Smedman's Extinction, Gromph and Andzrel made an attempt to rid of Nimor. The second attempt this was, and the two Menzoberranyr were disguised as tanarukks. From what we gathered, Nimor was trapped in the Plane of Shadows with that magical surface elf talisman glued to his hands, emitting light described to be as bright as the sun.
Now, we're back in Annihilation, and Nimor has made his first appearance since the incident. He is simply back on the Prime Material Plane, seemingly unscathed. I was waiting for the explanation on how he returned but none was given. Upon flipping through the next few chapters, it seems that I'm not going to get an answer anytime soon.
So I'm assuming - which really is not surprising at all - that Nimor never really got trapped on the Plane of Shadows. Predictably, Gromph's subterfuge didn't end with the results that he believed to be so. Is this the case then? Likely, it will be explained eventually, but it's something that bothers me as I read along.
Thanks to any who can help.
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"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."
"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?" |
Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 28 Jan 2015 20:49:52
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 00:49:35
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| I don't recall that, because I could only bring myself to suffer thru that series one time... But keep in mind, other than the grand outline, there wasn't much coordination between authors -- I believe they were all pretty much writing their books at the same time. And thus, there are lots of issues that pop up because of the lack of coordination; particularly the personalities of some of the characters. |
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
77 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 02:43:23
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I am sorry to hear that you suffered through the series. In my opinion, it's terrific - but I'm sure you've heard enough praise already.
But yes, I have noticed some inconsistency when it comes to the transition between books and authors. Mainly, like you mentioned, it has to do with the personalities of the characters, but that's almost inevitable with a varying-author project like this. I suppose there is a chance that the lack of coordination - as you say - may have resulted in this mishap, but it seems like too big of an error. I mean, Nimor was seemingly dispatched - taken care of - and now he's back without a trace. I really, really doubt I missed something so I suppose it is either a mishap, or it's something that will hopefully be explained later on in the book. |
"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."
"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?" |
Edited by - Scimitars of Drizzt on 29 Jul 2014 02:45:25 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 07:40:14
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In addition, Jeggred leaves the party at one point, only to suddenly be right back there with them, without any explanation for how & why.
There was a glitch as to how long Quenthel remained dead and in the Demonweb Pits versus how many years she had been alive and kicking again back on the Prime Material Plane.
The Hall of the Ruling Council is described completely differently from the way it was in RAS's Homeland.
It happens. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 29 Jul 2014 07:40:58 |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 10:53:56
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| There are a few glitches as other people have mentioned but dont let that put you off. Overall its a great series and frankly considering all the different authors that helped write it , there are relatively few inconsistencies. |
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Scimitars of Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
77 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 15:34:39
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Thanks for the input everyone.
I must say, I'm genuinely shocked that they let something like this slip. I'll have to watch out for the re-appearing Jeggred-act glitch. I'm sure I would have noticed if it happened already. Something like The Hall of the Ruling Council being described differently is more acceptable. Not too surprising actually.
But yeah, I'm not too disappointed. The series is great, like mentioned. I was just concerned. I'm the type of reader who finds it more than vexing to continue reading when I don't have a complete understanding of events. |
"Surrender now, or we will slay you!" the leader of the creatures called, a bit louder and more forcefully.
"A moment, please, my friend," Zasian said, motioning to the dwarf for patience. "We are discussing your terms."
"Ye heading off with Invo . . . Inno . . . that durned elf?" |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 18:59:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Scimitars of Drizzt
I must say, I'm genuinely shocked that they let something like this slip.
A reappearing character is something major to let slip by, but the other things are stuff that happens all the time. For example, in the Companions there's a point in the book where RAS messed up with the timelines. And I also think he made a mistake when talking about the fiend Bruenor defeated in Gauntlgrym.
Dawnbringer also had the timeline completely wrong I believe.
But you need to realize that after proofreading something several times already a person starts to get biased into thinking everything is fine and things get skipped. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 19:49:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Scimitars of Drizzt
Something like The Hall of the Ruling Council being described differently is more acceptable. Not too surprising actually.
The original Chamber of the Ruling Council in Homeland was described as a spider-shaped table in a side cavern of Qu'ellarz'orl. It's pretty cool, both because of the spider imagery, and because it places all of the ruling matrons on an even level, except with Matron Baenre at the head of the spider, and because the hall is a separate structure unto itself, independent of any one drow house.
But "WOTSQ" changed this and made the hall part of House Baenre! And it eliminated the spider imagery, then replaced it with some sort of a pyramidal throne apparatus which literally, physically elevated some of the matrons over the others. (To this day, I still don't get how the matrons were supposed to conduct business with one another, when they have to arch their necks and look over their shoulders back at each other to speak--the table makes so much more sense, for face-to-face discussions.)
BRJ's Menzoberranzan: City of Intrigue restored the original hall back to use, and even gave us an illustration of the table!
I have suggested that Matron Triel Baenre's insecurities led her to make these changes with the Chamber of the Ruling Council. She sought to fortify her power, in part, by forcing all of the other matron mothers to come within the confines of her own compound, placing them at a tactical disadvantage, whenever they wished to conduct business.
(spoiler)
And she didn't live much longer after that, either. History (FRCG {4E}) records that Quenthel slew her older sister to seize control of House Baenre, but I would be willing to bet that some of those other belittled, disadvantaged matron mothers probably had a hand in it, as well!
(/spoiler) |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2014 : 14:51:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Scimitars of Drizzt
Anyways, back in Smedman's Extinction [...] From what we gathered, Nimor was trapped in the Plane of Shadows with that magical surface elf talisman glued to his hands, emitting light described to be as bright as the sun.
Gem of Brightness.  Somewhat misinterpreted, but with a way out, since Gromph meddled with it anyway.
Yeah, one of two really cool (and only slightly dubious) parts in the book.
quote:
So I'm assuming - which really is not surprising at all - that Nimor never really got trapped on the Plane of Shadows.
Gromph himself is not exactly an expert on shadow walking, but bright light obviously is something that potentially could disrupt it.
Using RotA model... I don't see why a light source would be conducive to reaching the Deep (Plane of Shadows as such), but it's plausible that a botched shadow-walk like this may leave the subject tumbling along the Shadow Fringe non-stop, unable to control this movement, slamming into any solid objects and with a beacon that attracts attention of everything around to his blistering butt. Which isn't much better.
And after the problem is fixed, given effective Prime speed of shadow-walk, he could emerge at just about any location connected to Faerun or its Underdark (this includes at very least all adjacent continents and Maztica). |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Schreckstoff
Seeker
53 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 10:03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by BEAST
In addition, Jeggred leaves the party at one point, only to suddenly be right back there with them, without any explanation for how & why.
There was a glitch as to how long Quenthel remained dead and in the Demonweb Pits versus how many years she had been alive and kicking again back on the Prime Material Plane.
The Hall of the Ruling Council is described completely differently from the way it was in RAS's Homeland.
It happens.
The worst offense was Quenthel in my books, who went from capable in WoTSQ to completely useless in RAS' books, with next to no explanation given on how and when she took the throne, nor how the incapable her was able to.
Now even Vhaeraun is back and I haven't read a single mention of any Melarn nor the freed Drow come Darkelves again ever since.
Pretty sure Wizards is doing their best to sweep the whole affair under the rug.
I do miss Pharaun though, he was a prime Drow.
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Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 10:23:26
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Quenthel's rise to power was explained, just not in a novel. Quenthel overpowered and sacrificed Triel to Lolth in 1383 DR. With Lolth's favour due to those actions, she was poised to dissolve the Ruling Council when the Spellplague hit and ruined her plans.
Also, Vhaeraun isn't definitely back. He might be, he might not be - we have to wait and see.
Everybody misses Pharaun. He was awesome. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 10:57:18
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Also, Vhaeraun isn't definitely back. He might be, he might not be - we have to wait and see.
He -and Eilistraee too- are likely coming back, even people at WotC have hinted at it happening (and Ed has already written post-Sundering lore on Eilistraee, and I guess Vhaeraun too). With how the end of LP was handled, Eilistraee -and perhaps her brother joined with her- may even not have died at all. They might also be allies now...
But yeah, I too guess we'll have to wait. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 30 Jan 2015 11:26:55 |
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Schreckstoff
Seeker
53 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 13:24:53
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Quenthel's rise to power was explained, just not in a novel. Quenthel overpowered and sacrificed Triel to Lolth in 1383 DR. With Lolth's favour due to those actions, she was poised to dissolve the Ruling Council when the Spellplague hit and ruined her plans.
Also, Vhaeraun isn't definitely back. He might be, he might not be - we have to wait and see.
Everybody misses Pharaun. He was awesome.
I read up on that online it just bothered me that the WoTSQ and RAS' Quenthels were so different and that there wasn't so much as an anecdote in the recent books where she had a more predominant role again.
Erin confirmed Vhaeraun on multiple occasions in this very forum already.
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
[...]
• Phalar is indeed a Chosen of Vhaeraun. Here’s a link to the full list of Chosen in a discussion: http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18594&whichpage=1
[...]
Best,
Erin
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Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 13:38:51
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A chosen doesn't necessarily mean that the related deity is back, though. To me it seems like every god ever got one or more chosen, probably as part of their backup plans for survival in the case things went wrong for them, and that during the Sundering they tried to re-emerge through said chosen.
But -as I said- I think that it is very likely that iconic deities like Vhaeraun and Eilistraee are on their way back in the Realms. After all, if they decided that deities like Leira and Myrkul who were removed with the ToT should be included again, why not other popular ones, like the drow pantheon? We'll most likely get details on them when they decide to release a FRCS or when they choose a drow theme for their new seasonal adventure paths. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 30 Jan 2015 13:57:44 |
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Schreckstoff
Seeker
53 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 13:57:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
A chosen doesn't necessarily mean that the related deity is back, though. To me it seems like every deity ever got one or more chosen, most likely as part of their backup plans for survival in the case things went wrong for them, and that during the Sundering they tried to re-emerge through said chosen.
But -as I said- I think that it is very likely that iconic deities like Vhaeraun and Eilistraee are on their way back in the Realms. After all, if they decided that deities like Leira and Myrkul who were removed with the ToT should be included again, why not other popular ones, like the drow pantheon? We'll most likely get details on them when they decide to release a FRCS or when they choose a drow theme for their new seasonal adventure paths.
Fine have another one.
quote:
Originally posted by ErinMEvans
Wait, what? Vhaeraun is dead? Oh holy crap, why didn't anyone tell me?
(Sorry. That was funny in my head.)
Good catch!  This is what I would call one of the hints as to what is happening in the larger story. As I believe has been said elsewhere, the gods are all coming back, and here is some proof of that (among others...). And I was quick and snatched Vhaeraun.
I'm personally not a fan of a Drow pantheon but Vhaeraun is definitely back. |
Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 14:00:32
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| I know, I read Erin's post too. But according to what she says, all the lost gods are back. But then, Chris Perkins confirmed that too (http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19597) so at this point Idk anymore. I would definitely be happy to see so many deities coming back, tho -especially Eilistraee&Vhaeraun-. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 30 Jan 2015 14:01:54 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 18:13:38
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| I would honestly be surprised if GenCon doesn't see us get a release date for the 5E campaign book -- if not the book itself. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2015 : 18:17:44
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Seems clear to me that there are no details they have worked out yet. They dont really know anything about the 5E realms because they havent done any work on it. There have been a few novels and 2 adventures farmed out to third parties with the briefest of blurbs as an outline.
That is all the details that exist about 5E FR for us and i believe for them too because they dont strike me as being terribly bothered or organised about the campaign as a whole, it is just a cash cow to them and the latest direction for the cash cow is small adventures.
You can ponder and debate all you like, i doubt very much you will get a firm answer from anyone anytime soon (if ever), simply because they dont know the answer because they are not working on anything that could ever give you an answer.
These vague responses are indicative of them doing nothing towards 5E FR except for a few novels and 3rd party adventures (for which you dont need to know which gods exist or not).
I'm in rant mode again and should go and lie down.
Why do WoTC make me so angry? I know why, because they are the "Destroyer of Worlds"
Well, AFAIK Ed has written a lot on the 5e FR, both lore and story bibles. To my understanding they now have info on the new FR, they just aren't releasing it -and sadly it doesn't look like they will anytime soon, since a FRCS is something that appears to be very far down the road and these adventures don't really contain significant realmslore-. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Minor War of the Spider Queen Question
