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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jul 2014 : 20:57:58
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In order for you to be happy with 5th edition Forgotten Realms, what needs to happen?
I'm not sure, short of a reboot, what will make me happy to buy 5e Forgotten Realms.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2014 : 20:59:29
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| Cyric must do the deed with Shar and then lose his divinity and life..... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6382 Posts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2014 : 21:15:02
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Heh, I'll paste what I wrote in similar, recent thread.
quote:
After what happened in the Sundering:
1)I want Eilistraee and Vhaeraun to be back in action. They are my favourite characters -especially Eilistraee- and I feel very strongly about their removal from the Realms, particularly because Eilistraee's 'achievements' in those events were incoherent with her character, what she stands for and her goal. They are iconic to the realmsian drow, I wouldn't even care for this race, if it wasn't for them.
EDIT: Idc if they return as deities, as arch-whatever or even if they reincarnate in a couple of drow -I would like this even better, tbh- I just want those characters back in the 5E era FR.
2)
quote:
Halruaa, Nimbral, Luiren, Mulhorand, Unther need to be revived in some form. It needs to be credible though, not just hand-waved.
I want Halruaa back too. It's a region I have always liked and was very annoyed when they nuked it. I don't care much for Mulhorand/Unther, but I don't mind them either.
3)
quote:
Likewise, Thay needs to be revised with the return of some of the zulkirs.
I'd like that too.
4)
quote:
Candlekeep's wards and Myth Drannor's mythal. Candlekeep I suppose could remain as-is but it wouldn't make sense to me. Myth Drannor, though, is iconic for it's mythal and needs to be restored...even if it's broken.
I want to see elves trying to rebuild Myth Drannor yet again, but nothing will probably be ever done about that, since what happened in the Herald makes it very clear that WotC sees the city as a huge dungeon crawl.
5)I don't mind the chosen, but I'm not invested in them either. I like Qilue and Laeral, tho.
6)I want to see more about Liriel, Arilyn, Danilo, Elaith. In short, I want more stories about Elaine's characters.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4459 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2014 : 21:18:43
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| Steer the course, keep writing fun and evocative Realms-lore, maintaining the continuity, and produce a quality product that is self-containing. Basically something akin to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting for 3E but remove all the NPC Stat block crap and focus more on ALL the areas of Toril, not just the popular ones. If they want to get people interested in areas other than Waterdeep, Cormyr, Baldur's Gate, and Neverwinter (basically the West Coast) then some work needs done giving life to Impiltur, Damara and Vaasa, Rasheman, Thay, and Aglarond, the Shaar, etc. People won't want to play there if there's a page of lore for thousands of square miles of land dotted with cities on the map you provide. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2014 : 21:44:21
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| Sourcebooks by Ed Greenwood written under parameters that allow them to feel like the Realms. (There are of course things that I'd ideally like, or quite like, but that's what will make me buy in.) |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2014 : 22:54:52
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| The only thing that I want is for Eilistraee to return. I don't really give a damn about anything else at this point. |
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CylverSaber
Seeker
95 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2014 : 23:06:14
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| I agree on Eilistraee and the rest of the drow pantheon. Also agree on more Elaine Cunningham. Have Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak do more books with Alias, Dragonbait, Giogioni, Finder, et al. And let's get another Cyric novel by James Lowder, and maybe bring back some of the other characters from Prince of Lies (Gwydion, Rinda). |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 00:15:04
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The 5E Realms should find some success if they put out a main book at least the size of the 4E FRCG but with the density and quality of information as the 3E FRCS, minus the player rules (belongs in a players guide), NPC stat blocks (instead should be a set of pre-made playable character with art) and adventures (of many different offerings, which should be available separately). If WotC can do this, I feel they've probably set FR up for a good start.
What I would like is for most of the destroyed areas to return closer to their pre-Spellplague form. Wizards needn't plop Mulhorand/Unther back down on Toril whole-cloth (I don't expect them to), but re-establish the majority of the geo-political set-up of the earlier Realms fused with some 4E elements (inevitable I suppose).
What I really want, a reboot. This will never happen unless the whole game (setting, novels, rules, everything) just falls flat around the premier. Or unless there is a popular movie franchise founded on the setting, then I could see Wizards rebooting the setting to correspond to the movie adaptation, but by then they may have no choice with a Hasbro breathing down their necks. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 00:28:50
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Just a general thought, and it's not limited to this particular subject, but about the process of rebooting: why not see if there is something, anything, that can be done to recapture the magic a given property has before declaring reboot? I'm not against the concept, per se, I just have always seen that as the nuclear option, and I'll explain why.
Once you open that door, it becomes a thing. Not only is it a dividing line, and a harder and sharper dividing line than any event or time jump could ever be, but also, once a thing has been done, it's much more likely to be seen as a thing that can be done again. Look at DC Comics. Crisis on Infinite Earths was suppose to be a one time thing. Zero Hour was suppose to be different because it was just "cleaning up." But then Infinite Crisis reboots everything, Final Crisis did . . . something that was never fully fleshed out, and finally Flashpoint rebooted everything yet again. Once it was a tool in the toolbox, it's a tool that gets used.
Even outside of a full reboot, look at the evolution of the Realm Shaking Event. Before the Time of Troubles, we had local stories about competent but in D&D parlance, low to mid level characters confronting bad guys on a local level, with a few over the top things thrown in to the mix there or there, like demon lords or what have you. But once the Avatar Crisis happened, things that could End the World started becoming more commonplace, as did adventurers that came out of nowhere to do what nobody else (not even PCs in a D&D setting) could do and save the world. That became a thing, and thus when we need to transition to 4th edition, we get an event that thematically echoes the Time of Troubles, except it has to be even bigger.
While I don't think WOTC is interested in a reboot, especially because that confuses the consumers of some of their biggest consistent sellers (i.e. fans of characters like Drizzt), I am concerned that if we ever did see a reboot, we may measure Realms continuity in five year increments or so, as it would be a viable option to rewrite the whole setting each time a new edition of the game came out. |
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CylverSaber
Seeker
95 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 01:18:50
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Once you open that door, it becomes a thing. Not only is it a dividing line, and a harder and sharper dividing line than any event or time jump could ever be, but also, once a thing has been done, it's much more likely to be seen as a thing that can be done again. Look at DC Comics. Crisis on Infinite Earths was suppose to be a one time thing. Zero Hour was suppose to be different because it was just "cleaning up." But then Infinite Crisis reboots everything, Final Crisis did . . . something that was never fully fleshed out, and finally Flashpoint rebooted everything yet again. Once it was a tool in the toolbox, it's a tool that gets used.
100% right. Realms fans should definitely look to DC as a cautionary tale in that regard. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 01:20:20
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I don't think the term 'reboot' is accurate -- nothing would be changed necessarily, you'd just publish material focusing on a certain time, that is, the time of the majority of extant Realmslore, the 600+ boxes of unpublished papers that are the easily forgotten elephant in the room (when it's not your room they're in).
That would have been much my preferred choice, though there are of course downsides to anything they could do. But I'm assuming this question isn't about might-have-beens -- though it's reasonable to hope for novels and short stories, at least, not tied to the latest point in this timeline which I don't believe a word of after 13XX DR.
But the point of my brief answer is that the last thing the Realms needs is more second-guessing. Not by Mike Mearls, not by Chris Perkins, not by me. Just trust Ed to do his thing. |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 02:39:45
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I agree that everyone should just sit back and trust Ed to do his thing. I also think KnightErrantJR brought up some really good points on the subject of a reboot.
It's my hope that moving forward we will see the FRCS and other setting specific sourcebooks largely be edition neutral. They will follow a format similar to Elminster's Forgotten Realms. The source books will be designed to give you the feel, tone, and information on the setting. Occasionally you'll get references to events that took place after the Time of Troubles, after the Spellplague, and after the Sundering where it's relevant.
This way the sourcebooks and the lore is useful to everyone, because everyone is still working with the same basic information. However, people can choose to set their games and campaigns in whatever era they want. The sourcebooks wouldn't try and force you to stay with the canon.
I believe this is the best solution to the problem. It allows everyone access to the Realms, and allows the canon to continue to roll forward. This is the best, and probably only solution, that is able to truly bridge the divide created by 4th Edition. |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 04:02:23
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I don't know if there's anything that could be done to make me happy with the 5e Realms. I was invested quite eagerly until 4e came along. I had already bailed on 4e as a system when the 4e FRCG came out. I still bought it, hoping I could at least continue using the setting for the fluff and lore. Once I read that, I completely jumped ship over to Golarion.
5e as a system has me interested in kicking the tires of the D&D brand again, and I'll be very curious to see what the 5e Realms will look like, but I don't know if I can truly return to it. 4e truly obliterated the Realms from my perspective. I continued running my campaign there for a while after, ignoring the 4e stuff....but eventually my group went over to PF/Golarion.
I suppose if the 5e Realms more closely resembled the pre-4e Realms, my group and I might be inclined to start playing there again. Time will ultimately tell. I can only promise that I will look and decide based on what I see.
I definitely wouldn't mind seeing a little love thrown Kara Tur's way though, that would definitely get my attention. Even if it's not a full setting, but something like Paizo's Dragon Empires Gazeteer would be just fine. That's pipe dreaming at this point though.
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"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36871 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 04:14:27
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More than anything else, I want the flavor of the 1E/2E Realms to be back. I want to feel like everything has a history and that there could be incredible wonders just over the next hill.
I want wonder, flavor, interesting characters, plot hooks on every page, and a solid, tight continuity.
There is no one thing that is make or break for me, depending on how it is all handled. And that's something we have to wait to see. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 04:43:36
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I refuse to make my happiness with 5E contingent on whether or not WotC does what I want them to do.
Besides, enjoying any edition of the Realms is something that takes time. Sourcebooks, novels and adventures need to be produced and consumed over the course of months and years in order to find the flavor of an edition and experience what it's about.
Ask me again in five or six years. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 04:49:17
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The return of the gods (which seems to be happening), particularly Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, and a continuation of the Lady Penitent series. If there are still the "brown drow", then do something with them. I'd like Myth Drannor to stop being pulverized all the time, and I would like more stories about elves and drow. I miss the days when there were more than RAS' books to give you a good drow fix.
I wish Elaine would return to writing in the Realms, and for there to be follow-up series to Hand of Nendawen, Shadowbane books, LP (as mentioned above), and Empyrean Odyssey. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1224 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 05:27:08
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This is a great question, thank you for it. It will help me organize my own thoughts.
1. I would like to bring nearly every god even hinted at back into the Realms. The exceptions for me would be gods that had an excellent story to define the reason behind their deaths. For example, Mask's death worked for me, Tyr's certainly did not. Some of the more unique gods that died need to be brought back as well (Eilistraee for one).
2. I would like to nearly repeat number 1 above, except replace gods with regions and nations. I wan't Halruaa, Luiren, Mulhorand, Unther and of course Maztica back. If a good story is formed around it (that makes sense) I would like to somehow keep the Tymanthers and Akanuls as well.
3. Explore the unexplored regions of the world in at least minor detail. I would give my left arm to see newly published material on Anchorome, Maztica, Lopango, Osse, the Utter East, Zakhara, The Hordelands, Katashaka, Kara-Tur, even Malatra! Remember the Nubari? Remember bloodforges?
4. Allow the novel authors to drive the world and let the game design follow suit, not the other way around. I can't think of a better group of authors anywhere.
5a. Print me some books...I like dead trees in my hands and I get excited when I see something new at my local bookstore. PDFs just don't cut it for me. Also, don't wrap the books in cellophane. I want to peruse the books a bit. I would say I buy at least 1 gamebook 90% of the time I am allowed to do that. I almost always refuse when I get no preview.
5b. Put Dragon and Dungeon Magazine back in print. Similar to 5a, gimme my dead tree!
6. Connect the Realms to the metacampaign. Bring it all in and consolidate. In other words, I would love to see a little Realms discussion connecting portions to Spelljammer, Planescape and Ravenloft a la 2e. There is a history that can be developed using it all.
Notice my grand theme with everything I want? It is include EVERYTHING. I have been collecting gaming books and novels from WotC for so long now that I have what I consider a relatively impressive collection. It angers me to no end that 4/5th of it is invalidated! |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 05:43:41
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| In one of the sourcebooks, be it the Players Campaign guide or something separate, I would like to see a list of the gods, their profiles, etc. I know WotC wants to have the gods still be present, but less prominent in 5e, but as a gods' fan, I would like to see some printed info on them. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 06:28:07
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ahem...
as for the list of gods.
it would be wise this time around just to give them a book to themselves again... or many books, one for each pantheon in the realms.... or combine some of them like what was done in 2e. Hey some of them were and still are fun to pick up and read.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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CylverSaber
Seeker
95 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 07:50:47
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| I will second the requests for a book detailing ALL the gods of 5E, as well as no more e-book only novels. If it's good enough to publish, it's good enough to print. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 10:05:17
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Make Ed creative director and Eric Boyd continuity editor.
'Nuff said. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 13:54:46
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Why the obsession with 'detailing' the gods? Just what detail are we looking for?
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6382 Posts |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 15:04:57
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Why the obsession with 'detailing' the gods? Just what detail are we looking for?
-- George Krashos
I can't speak for others, but for an example for the detail I'm looking for, you need look no further than 2e's Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities.
They were just chock full of plot hooks, details about the disposition of the various faith's church, it's dogmas, organization, geographical highs/lows, affiliated orders and groups, etc. You had some info about cosmology, new classes, the deific hierarchies...it was just fantastic all-around.
These were just fantastic and I'd love to see 5e versions updated with all the new lore. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
Edited by - ZeshinX on 14 Jul 2014 15:16:06 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3247 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 15:13:12
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| Honestly? I'm beginning to feel the transformation into a grognard. I no longer care if new rules or editions come out, I'm happy with the rules I use. And I fear that one day, I'll be the minority still using them. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 16:13:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX
I can't speak for others, but for an example for the detail I'm looking for, you need look no further than 2e's Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons and Demihuman Deities.
They were just chock full of plot hooks, details about the disposition of the various faith's church, it's dogmas, organization, geographical highs/lows, affiliated orders and groups, etc. You had some info about cosmology, new classes, the deific hierarchies...it was just fantastic all-around.
These were just fantastic and I'd love to see 5e versions updated with all the new lore.
I'm assuming you've read the recent "Elminster's Guide to the Realms" which provides a look at most of the faiths in the Realms.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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see
Learned Scribe
235 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 16:42:39
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I literally do not believe WotC capable of delivering Realms game product that I would be happy to buy.
However, a setting book where the current year is 1359 DR, opening with a vignette set in an Arabel insane asylum, featuring a Zhentish-born inmate, who is ranting about a godswar the previous year that nobody but he remembers, in which he became the replacement of Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul? That would be a good start. |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 16:46:05
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quote:
I'm assuming you've read the recent "Elminster's Guide to the Realms" which provides a look at most of the faiths in the Realms.
-- George Krashos
I have not, nay. Are you referring to Elminster's Forgotten Realms or something else? If the former, while I'm sure it's a fantastic read, I find it rather difficult to believe that three tomes of goodness can be effectively condensed into a single chapter. I'd be happy to snag a copy though and have a read, if you happen to know where I might find a PDF copy I can purchase. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 18:01:50
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| A reconciliation between the "moral ambiguity" that was introduced in 4th Edition and the less ambiguous trappings of prior editions. I've put moral ambiguity in quotations because having one of my players attempt to guilt trip me over killing a goblinoid is exactly the same as assuming all goblinoids are evil. I also wouldn't mind if the pantheon were revealed to be mortals who, having accessed some vast wealth of magical power, are terrified of their newfound power and thus built the cults and engaged in religious conflict, intrigue etc in as a means of escapism. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2014 : 18:43:46
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I second the idea of another Faiths and Avatars or Deminhuman Deities type book, but a section in the Campaign Guide would be all right, too.
I think the gods add flavor to the Realms. I personally would hate it if they were revealed to be powerful mortals, no offense, Entromancer. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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What needs to happen to make you happy with 5e FR?
