| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 06:08:50
|
Have a nigh epic gnome character who is about to design a city and it occurred to me to wonder if there is any definitive gnomish architecture or regional architecture detailed anywhere canonical.
He is native of Aglarond who was trained in Lantan and the city is going to be built in The Endless Wastes.
Additionally is there anything I should be looking out for in The Endless Wastes that might threaten a giant crawling metropolis magically conjured from almost nothing?
|
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 13:05:31
|
Gnomish architecture can typically be categorised as such (interpreted from Races of Stone supplement):
1.) limited in size and scope (usually to avoid attention)
2.) located in areas with rolling hills, arable land and fresh water (wells)
3.) architectural structures express the natural forms of the landscape
4.) enhanced by (illusory) magic to help a structures function and defences
5.) thanks to intricate architectural gadgetry most larger important structures can sport very precise features (like sluiced waste disposal systems, light refraction for the illumination of subterranean areas or nearly invisible ventilation systems in craftsmen areas)
6.) typical surface dwellings go underground for at least a single story, and depending on the size of the town/family, can carve quite a lot of space in the hollows of their hill (though not as far down as a dwarf would go)
7.) nearly all settlements revolve and expand around the central amphitheatre, a large (preferably) underground public space with perfect accoustics that's used for public announcements, plays and celebrations
8.) settlements have little in the way of orderly city planning, with families expanding into the city's nearby hills as the need arises
9.) the most visible structure for a typical visitor is the public hall area, where gnomes do their trade along any near trade routes
10.) most gnomish settlements make use of a waterwheel if possible, allowing small industries to flourish by the constant workpower generated
The endless wastes provide little prosperity for anyone residing there AND harbor the ruthless horse nomads and expert bowmen.
And what do you mean by crawling... is your gnome character planning on building a mobile city?
|
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
 |
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 15:13:49
|
For a canon example there is the deep gnome settlement Blingdenstone.
Some remarkable features of Blingdenstone are the central ring of standing stones or menhirs from which the original city expanded, a large catacomb area beneath the city proper, a single cavernous keep for the mayor-king, surrounded by many winding tunnels and cavern dwellings with entrances carved to look like piles of natural rocks. Its only defence are a pair of huge iron doors blocking its main entrance that leads to an intricate labyrinth meant to slow down and confuse the enemy. Typical responce to invaders is a wholesale evacuation using the large number of well hidden escape routes during the time the invaders struggle with the labyrinth. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 20:21:23
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
...
The endless wastes provide little prosperity for anyone residing there AND harbor the ruthless horse nomads and expert bowmen.
And what do you mean by crawling... is your gnome character planning on building a mobile city?
Thank you greatly for such a thorough and useful answer!
And yes, he is going to build the largest possible animated walking mech city that the Dragonmech (by Goodman Games) rules will allow.
See he managed to create a nation's worth of conjured Constructs (Permanent Intelligent Animated Objects, Minor Servitors, and Awakened Sands plus a multitude of unintelligent Crawling Claws) and he wants to design a home for them. Someplace to call their own.  |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 22:13:12
|
I can't imagine staying in a walking titanic mech is resource efficient enough to live for longer stretches then a few tendays a time. Perhaps a few gnome families (totalling 300 gnomes) can operate and reside on the insides, but it will probably need to trade for resources daily somewhere. The Endless Wastes provide little resources, and the Golden Way is merely a line of demarcations of watering holes, which are particularly hard to comeby in the steppes of the Tuigan horselords. Most of the towns (remnants of the raumathari or imaskari empire) bordering the wastes are in decline, providing little trade at best and active danger at other occasions.
Gnomes love to live in partially hidden houses. A typical gnome family would certainly be hard pressed to live in such an obvious place, as a titanic mech tends to be hard to obscure from view even with prodigious use of illusion magic. A good thing a city-mech is enough to scare alot of the typical foes found in the endless wastes (Tuigan and Gnoll tribes).
Filling it with awakened objects and constructs instead of fleshy humanoids would probably solve a lot of the resource problems, though even they probably need a means to make repairs to the mech and themselves.
I guess the gnome architects greatest fear should be rival wizards and/or magi-technomancers with the means to infiltrate the mech. If some lich or archwizard would have need of a new siege toy he'd gladly and easily take it by force. Also antimagic or deadmagic zones could wipe out large parts of the mechs enchanted sentient inhabitants. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 03:15:52
|
Bladewind, do you have any notes on gnomish architecture in the Realms?
I only ask because a portion of my still-working-on "Music of the Realms" project is currently exploring the connection between music and architecture across Faerūn. So anything you have could prove useful for my own work.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
|
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 06:39:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I can't imagine staying in a walking titanic mech is resource efficient enough to live for longer stretches then a few tendays a time. Perhaps a few gnome families (totalling 300 gnomes) can operate and reside on the insides, but it will probably need to trade for resources daily somewhere. The Endless Wastes provide little resources, and the Golden Way is merely a line of demarcations of watering holes, which are particularly hard to comeby in the steppes of the Tuigan horselords. Most of the towns (remnants of the raumathari or imaskari empire) bordering the wastes are in decline, providing little trade at best and active danger at other occasions.
Gnomes love to live in partially hidden houses. A typical gnome family would certainly be hard pressed to live in such an obvious place, as a titanic mech tends to be hard to obscure from view even with prodigious use of illusion magic. A good thing a city-mech is enough to scare alot of the typical foes found in the endless wastes (Tuigan and Gnoll tribes).
Filling it with awakened objects and constructs instead of fleshy humanoids would probably solve a lot of the resource problems, though even they probably need a means to make repairs to the mech and themselves.
I guess the gnome architects greatest fear should be rival wizards and/or magi-technomancers with the means to infiltrate the mech. If some lich or archwizard would have need of a new siege toy he'd gladly and easily take it by force. Also antimagic or deadmagic zones could wipe out large parts of the mechs enchanted sentient inhabitants.
Those are all great points, again thank you. And yeah, the city-mech is mostly for the Constructs. Technically the Awakened Sands and the Crawling Claws are immune to the antimagic areas. There are ways to allow the others to survive, among them is turning the Constructs into real living people. Which, if done en masse, would unbalance certain delicate balances in the universe (according to my DM. )
The Constructs can earn the chance to become real alive people with merit or challenge or something. Some mechanism so that it happens slowly with only a few per generation. Eventually though the city-mech will need to support a living thriving community of Incarnate Constructs.
The final form of the mech hasn't been decided yet. It can look like anything at all. Even a hillock or hillside etc. Your advice really has helped. Now I know that the culture my character came from would inspire him to build a stealthy city-mech. Even if his own inclinations are to build one that looks like a great walking golem with three legs. Honestly he'll likely do both. 
Would you happen to know anything about the Underdark beneath The Endless Wastes? The Constructs were technically "born" in the Upperdark beneath Aglarond and the resources beneath might be more bountiful than those on the surface. (For the record I have exactly zero clue yet if the thing can be made to burrow or not.) |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 12:22:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Bladewind, do you have any notes on gnomish architecture in the Realms?
I only ask because a portion of my still-working-on "Music of the Realms" project is currently exploring the connection between music and architecture across Faerūn. So anything you have could prove useful for my own work.
Aye, I love to scrounge the lore for architectural details!
Some gnomish architects strive for building rooms and echo-ing tubes with perfect accoustics for worship and defensive message system. Svirfneblin have been known to settle in natural caverns that are hemispherical and/or elliptical in volume or have porous stone formations.
A hemisphere (looks like a halved orb and) can bend sounds along its walls, allowing whispers spoken on the opposite sides of its heightened balconies to be heard (i.e. creating the natural conditions for a whispering room).
Ellipsoid (usually like a halved egg) rooms can have the accoustic properties that focus sounds spoken in primed spot to be heard clearly at a second focal point in the room.
Some porous or perforated stone or metal formations are known to dampen sounds, and can muffle a great deal of craftwork clangor if strategically distributed along entrances to rooms that produce too much sound.
Also, gnomes have experimented with wooden, copper and brass boxes and bowls to reverberate sounds at certain spots in their amphitheatres, amplifying sounds to deafening or stunning levels. These soundboxes are also used to help message transmission.
Some caverns have an alarm system that activates a series of pneumatic brass trumpets that bleats a code of warnings with enourmous cacophony, alerting the evacuation of all within the gnome settlement. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 13:28:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by unseenmage...
Would you happen to know anything about the Underdark beneath The Endless Wastes? The Constructs were technically "born" in the Upperdark beneath Aglarond and the resources beneath might be more bountiful than those on the surface. (For the record I have exactly zero clue yet if the thing can be made to burrow or not.)
Nearby settlements in the Earthroot (Underdark under Endless Wastes) are (Deep Imaskar,) Earthfast, Undrek Thoz, Ikemmu and Fraaz, respectivly owned by (deep imaskari,) shield dwarves, drow, shadar-kai and duergar.
There are two big water supplying bodies in the Earthroot. The cold sea is a collection of glacio-fluvial waters that infiltrated from the waterbasins of the great Ice sea and glaciers from the icerim mountains. It has a single harbor that belongs to Undrek Thoz, a confederation of cities run by drow monks of Lolth. It lies closest to Thay and Aglarond, so that would be the nearest major city for the newly 'born' mech-city.
The Lake of Mists slowly drains into a large abyss in the east of the earthroot underdark. This seemingly bottemless gorge is known as the Ramparts of the Night. Ikemmu, a large town of Shadar Kai is perched on one of its cliffs next to one of the waterfalls into the Ramparts.
___
Oh, by the way. I found a few new potential threats that stalk the Endless Wastes (Dragon mag issue #163). A non magical and antisocial three-headed dragon called a Dzalmaus, capable of a lesser vampiric breath that drains temporary HP. The ecology article also makes note of a packlike predator called the orpsu, a bobcat-like predator called a sand cat and flying race of kenku called the Manni. Manni are likely to be demon cultists of Pazuzu, who scavenge a living from their elevated perches in the Wastes' higher hills.
|
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
Edited by - Bladewind on 18 Jun 2014 13:35:57 |
|
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 14:36:02
|
Bladewind might be my new favoritest person on the interwebs. 
But seriously, thanks much for your thorough answers.
The bits about architecture materials and sound might even get used in the city-mech.
If I may impose on your greater grasp of the lore once more...
I have found reference to this place near The Endless Wastes called "The living castle of Panjuis" which I can exactly zero additional info about other than that it is supposed to be ruined.
Our game is set just before the switch from 3.x to 4E before the Spellplague but after a lot of other cataclysms and I don't know if this place is ruined yet or not. Would be an excellent place for my character to visit and crib ideas from if it's still standing. Heck, even if it's not he might be able to use magic to see what it was like in the distant past. He'd just need to know how distant.
Edit: It would appear that Dragon 349 also has a "The Horde" article with information on the region. Including a short 'history of' section, regional feats, 3.x stats for the Dzalmaus, and more.
If I hadn't gotten curious about that dragon you mentioned I might never have found it. Thanks again. |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
Edited by - unseenmage on 18 Jun 2014 14:58:21 |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 22:42:55
|
The only thing I can find on that place is that it was build by pixies as a fortress, but was ruined not long ago (I think as of 1374DR).
A living pixie fortress is probably build from massive tangles of plants, shaped in the form of a castle, probably in defence to ward off dragons, giants or one of the creator races. I might expect its vermin and animal defenders will still be alive in its tangles.
It might have been originally from the feywild, and its ruins could harbor a trail of the castle into its homeplane where it could still function as a defence against fey dragons and fomori. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2014 : 22:48:07
|
I imagine gnomish cities would multiply what is found in gnomish settlements. And provide the sorts of resources and services at which gnomes happen to excel.
So, not just one waterwheel, but many waterwheels - along with wind turbines, various steam-powered engineering, and tons of impossibly convoluted interconnecting gears and rods and pulleys and such. The only way there could be only *one* waterwheel was, of course, if it was a stunningly magnificent wonder of the world, sprawling over half the city and requiring hundreds of gnome-hours of labour every day to tinker it towards full productivity ... I suppose such a thing might require a few extra rivers diverted towards the city. To power all the elevators, if nothing else.
Dont forget the big steam clock tower!
And the machine shops, lathes, drills, presses, etc. For polishing gemstones. For polishing sidewalk cobbles too, why not take pride in your city and show a little long-lasting superior gnomish craftsmanship, eh?
Prototype railways and railcars seem like a lovely gnomish notion. Replace those inefficient wagons with a proper steam-tech mass transit network! Incidentally, old England had something like this long before locomotives and railroads were invented - largely to link coal and coke and ore shipments to and from the coal and iron mines. But iron was once astronomically expensive, steel moreso, so such an extravagance too second place to less expensive canal systems (complete with bridges, tunnels, water locks and gates, docks, barges, etc) ... along with accompanying waterways for city aquaducts, sewage flow, rubbish disposal, and waterwheel power.
I suppose there would need to be a nearby quarry or mine. And that it might subsume half the city population.
Gond would be proud! He might even overtake some of stuffy olds Oghmas power once those water- and steam-powered printing presses are able to print a sufficient volume of arcane technical manuals.
Just ideas, none of it really canon. Some brief gnomishness is described in the entry for Baldurs Gate within 2E FRA which can be mildly helpful. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2014 : 20:31:22
|
Nice visuals Ayrik. I will definitely be cribbing some of them for the descriptions of the city so long as you don't mind.
I've been doing some research on the neighborhood and found something interesting. Right across the Bay of Raum from the planned construction site of the mech-city is The Violet Spire wherein lives a bitter racist anti-deity survivor of Imaskar. As a survivor of Imaskar the guy is just as into Constructs as my character is even; but that's where the similarities end.
My character is an Artificer (Eberron style), a Cleric of Gond, and a Techsmith of Gond. That both my character and this Imaskaran would want the mech-city puts them at odds, that my character is a gnome means the Imaskaran sees him as a slave race, and that my character is a fervent ally of Gond means that the Imaskaran will hate my character's guts. That my character prefers to use the Sacred Guardian template to give his Constructs sentience via making them deity powered makes this even worse. It's gonna be glorious.
On top of all that my Animated Objects and Minor Servitors are all winged humanoid statues made of Obdurium, which as it turns out is a violet colored metal. So here this guy will be, chillin' in his purple tower when what does he see when he scrys outside his window but an army of cheap purple-metal Constructs dedicated to Gond building a giant animated city right there in his back yard.
That this Imaskaran's "back yard" is also Thay's back yard won't make things any easier. That my character teamed up with the Simbul to kick an invading Thayan army's butt, twice should add to the fun. |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
|
|
|
George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2014 : 01:15:43
|
And orpsu are an original Ed FR creation from the dim, distant days of Dragon Magazine.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
|
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2014 : 21:00:07
|
I've guessed that the ice demons that helped destroy Winterkeep (UE188) were probably just the ancient ice giants mentioned in this web enhancement. Does anyone have info supporting or refuting this idea?
In this Wikipedia article it mentions "Far in the north of the sea is a small island dominated by a cathedral-like spire, inhabited by gnomes of Gond." This is VERY relevant to my interests but I can't find any more info on the subject.
Is there a module or description in any detail of what lies in the ruins of Winterkeep? Even a mention of how extensive it really is would be helpful.
And last, what sort of encounters would one have in the Great Ice Sea or its southern the Bay of Raum? Anything Faerun specific I should be aware of or should I just go use the Frostburn book?
Thanks again for everyone's help! If need be I can make these questions their own thread as they've become more about geography than architecture now. |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
|
|
|
Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2014 : 13:51:27
|
Winterkeep is a Raumathari noble mansion, so I expect its architecture to be reminiscant of several cultures that had influence on the tribes of Raumviran. They arose from barbarism when they started to feel the influence of the great kingdoms of Unther and Mulhorand, and after the Orcgate Wars the Raumviran contact with organised humans gave them the means to build their own kingdoms.
Mulan housing is typically a flatroofed dome, ziggurat or pyramid structure. Untheric architecture is characterised by the room it leaves for art in the form of pottery and hieroglyphs, and the extensive underground tunnelling they did under their main mansions. Adapting such styles to a region with more precipitation and cold the Raumviran nobles that build Winterkeep probably used slanted roofs on boxy buildings, ziggurats, pyramid like towers as defence and with vast dungeons underneath it all for storage and resting spaces.
Dont know if that cathedral full of gnomes is canon, but I would say run for it with the walking mech and report back what you've seen! |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
877 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jun 2014 : 14:35:45
|
"The Great Spire of the Ice Sea" is detailed in the 2e The Horde sourcebook.
In short, this is a desolate volcanic island on which a group of gnomes followers of Gond are trying to fullfil a prophecy dating back to the days of Raumathar: if they succesfully build their cathedral-spire (entirely made of stout and durable glass) the world will be returned to the glory of Gond.
Around 1310 DR a splinter sect of gnomes emerged, postulating that completing the cathedral would engulf the world in fire (the glory of Gond) and thus they started sabotaging the work of their fellows. Up until campaign time the situation is at a stalemate, with the cathedral almost completed and the "Glass-Breakers" trying in any way they can (sabotaging factories, scaring workers, bombarding the site with catapults, etc...) to prevent it.
The sourcebook even gives a definitive answer about the prophecy (but it's up for each individual DM to use it or go for something else): once the cathedral it's completed Gond will open a portal/gate to his Realm to accept the workers and then the volcano that originated it will destroy the small isle engulfing it and anything on it in heat and fire.
The same sourcebook details Winterkeep and says about it that the surface structures made completely of wood have long been swept away by fire, decay and blizzards, while the real ruins remain in the extensive undergroung complex used by the nobles residing in Winterkeep during the fiercest winters. |
|
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 04:40:53
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
"The Great Spire of the Ice Sea" is detailed in the 2e The Horde sourcebook.
In short, this is a desolate volcanic island on which a group of gnomes followers of Gond are trying to fullfil a prophecy dating back to the days of Raumathar: if they succesfully build their cathedral-spire (entirely made of stout and durable glass) the world will be returned to the glory of Gond.
Around 1310 DR a splinter sect of gnomes emerged, postulating that completing the cathedral would engulf the world in fire (the glory of Gond) and thus they started sabotaging the work of their fellows. Up until campaign time the situation is at a stalemate, with the cathedral almost completed and the "Glass-Breakers" trying in any way they can (sabotaging factories, scaring workers, bombarding the site with catapults, etc...) to prevent it.
The sourcebook even gives a definitive answer about the prophecy (but it's up for each individual DM to use it or go for something else): once the cathedral it's completed Gond will open a portal/gate to his Realm to accept the workers and then the volcano that originated it will destroy the small isle engulfing it and anything on it in heat and fire.
The same sourcebook details Winterkeep and says about it that the surface structures made completely of wood have long been swept away by fire, decay and blizzards, while the real ruins remain in the extensive undergroung complex used by the nobles residing in Winterkeep during the fiercest winters.
Excellent! Thanks for the info. Guess I just hadn't gotten that far reading through The Horde book.  |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
|
|
|
unseenmage
Seeker
61 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2014 : 05:49:58
|
Okay, one more.
According to this map there's a place called Murmaan right there beside Kholaa on the shores of the Bay of Raum.
All three are locations I can find exactly no information on. I've searched the Great Glacier, the Hordelands, and The Endless Wastes info and come up with nuthin'.
Anybody else know what these places are or what's supposed to lurk there? |
Flying monkeys will eat your eyes. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Faerun Architecture?
